CIP SeTr requesting assistance


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Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 13:38

Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 14:03

CIP SeTr requesting assistance

Hi everyone, this is the first character I've had that I actually got a chance to save and come back to in the morning. Before I continued on, though, I thought I might ask for some advice before I find myself rerolling a level 1 again.

The game has been pretty standard so far, the dungeon has been pretty scarce on rings and amulets overall, I've also found hardly any enchantment scrolls. My main concern though is that I've been raising necromancy as the SeTr guide recommends, though I have yet to find a book with a single necromancy spell in it. Should I switch directions possibly? Obviously a high necromancy skill is a waste of points if I don't have the actual spells. Mostly when I am about to enter a battle I deem at least a minor threat I invoke heroism and cast blade hands and just cut everything up. Is this approach going to be viable late game, or even very much longer?

I can't think of much else I want to directly ask, but pretty much any advice would be much appreciated, thanks in advance guys.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1 character file.

Valen Sevilo II the Fighter (Sludge Elf Transmuter)                                                                Turns: 41697, Time: 04:12:20

HP 106/106       AC 11     Str  9      XL: 15   Next: 11%
MP  32/32        EV 23     Int 26      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 806         SH  0     Dex 14      Spells:  8 memorised,  8 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .      - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : + .  x - +2 orc robe
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    v - +0 wizard hat
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : .    o - +1 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    d - +1 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    c - brooch of Shielding {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    w - ring of poison resistance
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    G - +4 ring of intelligence

@: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: deformed body 2, Str -1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 14 of the Dungeon.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are full.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 28 of its levels.
You have visited 2 portal chambers: bailey, ice cave.

You have collected 1354 gold pieces.
You have spent 568 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 A - a +2 blowgun
Missiles
 b - 41 +0 arrows
 j - 60 poisoned +0 needles
 r - 20 poisoned needles
 B - 11 poisoned needles
 D - 4 curare-tipped needles
 N - 4 curare-tipped +3 needles
 V - 16 poisoned needles
Armour
 d - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 o - a +1 cloak (worn)
 v - a +0 wizard hat (worn)
 x - a +2 orcish robe (worn)
Magical devices
 y - a wand of disintegration {recharged}
 E - a wand of lightning {zapped: 3}
 M - a wand of digging
 P - a wand of draining {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 q - a bread ration
 K - 6 royal jellies
Scrolls
 k - a scroll of recharging
 p - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 u - 3 scrolls of detect curse
 F - 5 scrolls of identify
 H - 3 scrolls of fog
 J - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 L - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
Jewellery
 c - the brooch of Shielding (around neck) {Ward AC+4 EV+4}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of warding]
   
   It affects your AC (+4).
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   
   Back in the good old days, every adventurer had one of these handy devices.
   That, and a pony.
 s - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 w - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
 G - a +4 ring of intelligence (left hand)
 Q - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Potions
 a - a potion of resistance
 f - 5 potions of poison
 g - 3 potions of water
 l - 2 potions of decay
 t - a potion of brilliance
 I - a potion of might
 U - a potion of heal wounds


   Skills:
 * Level 14 Fighting
 - Level 3 Throwing
 + Level 12 Dodging
 - Level 1 Stealth
 - Level 1 Stabbing
 + Level 9 Traps & Doors
 + Level 11 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 10 Spellcasting
 - Level 1 Hexes
 + Level 9 Necromancy
 + Level 13 Transmutations
 - Level 1 Fire Magic
 - Level 4 Ice Magic
 - Level 1 Air Magic
 - Level 1 Earth Magic
 - Level 3 Poison Magic
 - Level 6 Invocations
 - Level 1 Evocations


You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Success   Level  Hunger
a - Fulsome Distillation  Trmt/Necr      N/A          Excellent   1    None
b - Evaporate             Fire/Trmt      ######....   Excellent   2    None
c - Sticks to Snakes      Trmt           #######...   Excellent   2    None
d - Spider Form           Pois/Trmt      #######...   Excellent   3    None
e - Ice Form              Ice/Trmt       #######...   Excellent   4    None
f - Blade Hands           Trmt           #######...   Excellent   5    Choko
g - Flight                Air/Chrm       ####......   Fair        4    None
h - Silence               Air/Hex        ####......   Very Poor   5    Choko


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:11
   Lair (8/8) D:13          Swamp (1/5) Lair:2       Shoals (1/5) Lair:3
  Slime (0/6) Lair:6         Hive (2/2) D:13       
 Vault: D:14-19     

Altars:
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Xom

Shops:
D:4: =*?  D:7: !  D:11: ([

Portals:
Ziggurat: D:5 (4250 gp)

Annotations
D:5 exclusion: oklob plant
D:8 exclusion: ice statue


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Armour fits poorly on your deformed body.
You are weak (Str -1).


Message History

Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
You start resting.
Your extra speed is starting to run out.
You start resting.
You are feeling hungry.
You start resting.
You feel yourself slow down.
You start resting.
You feel like a meek peon again.
You start resting.
You feel a little less mighty now.
You start resting.
Your magical contamination has completely faded away.
You start resting.
You start resting.
You are feeling very hungry.
You start resting.
HP restored.
You continue eating.
You finish eating. That royal jelly was delicious!

       ########
       #......#
       #......#
       #......#########
       #.####.#.......#
       #.#  #.#.......#
       #.#  #.#.......#
       #@#  #.#.......#
       #.#  #.#.......#  #
      ##.## #.#.......####
      #...# #.#...........
      #...# #.#.......####
      #...# #.#.......#  #
      #...###.#...>...## #
      #................# #
      #...#.....##.###.# #
      #####.....##.# #.# #
          #.....##.# #.# #
###########.....##.# #.#
#...............##.# #.#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Gastronok (Lair:4)
  Jozef (D:10)
  Snorg (Swamp:1)
  Harold (D:11)
  4 hydras
  A centaur warrior (D:14)
  4 harpies (Shoals:1)
  3 hill giants
  An orc knight (Port)
  2 weapon mimics
  2 griffons
  A trapdoor spider (D:14)
  Maurice (D:13)
  4 cyclopes
  A wolf spider (D:13)
  A wolf spider zombie (D:12)
  9 elephants (Lair:8)
  An elf (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  2 giant toad zombies (D:12)
  2 black mambas
  9 spiny frogs
  4 slime creatures
  14 ugly things (D:14)
  A mermaid (Shoals:1)
  A hill giant skeleton (D:14)
  Grinder (D:5)
  A redback (Lair:7)
  5 trolls
  5 komodo dragons
  Prince Ribbit (D:8)
  A polar bear (Lair:6)
  2 two-headed ogres
  3 queen bees
  2 blink frogs (Lair:8)
  4 basilisks
  A grizzly bear (Lair:7)
  37 yaks
  2 wyverns
  12 giant toads
  A hungry ghost (D:14)
  Grum (D:8)
  2 wraiths
  8 hippogriffs
  3 fire drakes
  2 manticores
  4 vampire mosquitoes (D:13)
  Edmund (D:8)
  9 war dogs
  A swamp worm (Swamp:1)
  A troll zombie (D:13)
  19 orc warriors
  4 sky beasts
  A swamp drake (Swamp:1)
  3 phantoms
  6 centaurs
  16 ice beasts
  15 big kobolds
  10 ogres
  9 giant frogs
  11 crocodiles
  3 giant slugs
  2 brain worms
  8 water moccasins
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:7)
  4 agate snails
  2 yak simulacra (Port)
  A basilisk skeleton (D:11)
  2 polar bear simulacra (Port)
  2 eyes of draining (D:11)
  4 wights (D:14)
  A big kobold zombie (D:7)
  154 killer bees
  3 electric eels
  2 goliath beetles
  10 imps
  2 big fish
  14 hounds
  7 iguanas
  6 orc priests
  A big kobold skeleton (D:6)
  2 shadows (D:12)
  14 orc wizards
  2 worker ants
  3 worker ant zombies
  6 scorpions
  10 porcupines
  32 sheep
  25 jellies
  A mummy (D:7)
  6 gnolls
  5 giant centipedes
  29 green rats
  18 snakes
  A snake zombie (D:8)
  5 giant mites
  An iguana skeleton (D:7)
  A white imp (Port)
  A snake skeleton (D:4)
  5 worms
  A bat skeleton (D:6)
  A giant eyeball (D:8)
  11 giant geckos
  2 oozes
  73 orcs
  28 bats
  13 giant cockroaches
  19 goblins
  17 hobgoblins
  19 jackals
  28 kobolds
  10 quokkas
  6 small snakes
  8 giant newts
  18 killer bee larvae
  A kobold zombie (D:7)
  2 orc skeletons
  An orc zombie (D:9)
  2 quokka skeletons
  27 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:4)
  2 butterflies (D:11)
  3 fungi
  8 plants
  9 toadstools
982 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  An ogre (D:10)
  A centaur (D:5)
  6 killer bees (Lair:2)
  A jelly (D:10)
  3 orcs (D:12)
  4 kobolds (D:7)
  4 killer bee larvae (Lair:2)
20 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  9 slime creatures
  Psyche (D:8)
  An ugly thing (D:14)
  A komodo dragon (D:14)
  A soldier ant (D:14)
  A small abomination (D:11)
  A wight (D:14)
  An orc wizard (D:14)
  An orc (D:14)
  A hobgoblin (D:14)
  A kobold (D:14)
  A rat (Lair:5)
  A butterfly (D:5)
  37 fungi
  21 plants (D:13)
  15 toadstools
94 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1096 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Valen Sevilo II, the Sludge Elf Transmuter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 1/1
    96 | D:1      | Learned a level 1 spell: Fulsome Distillation
   486 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 11/18 MP: 4/4
   680 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  1139 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Evaporate
  1142 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes
  1204 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/23 MP: 6/6
  1518 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  2618 | D:4      | Found Omacvaes' Jewellery Emporium.
  2619 | D:4      | Found Strumn's General Store.
  2665 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of detect curse for 20 gold pieces
  2665 | D:4      | Bought a meat ration for 40 gold pieces
  2665 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of immolation for 10 gold pieces
  2665 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of noise for 10 gold pieces
  2769 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form
  2821 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 25/29 MP: 4/8
  3825 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
  3826 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 23/34 MP: 7/10
  4032 | D:4      | Found Wourheph's Magic Scroll Boutique.
  4078 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of curse jewellery for 22 gold pieces
  4171 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Traps & Doors
  4412 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4531 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 30/40 MP: 3/12
  4817 | D:5      | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
  5758 | D:6      | Noticed Vladimir Lenin's ghost (experienced SETm)
  5778 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Stabbing
  5778 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  6045 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  6079 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6414 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  6853 | D:5      | Noticed Grinder
  7424 | D:6      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 32/45 MP: 8/14
  7566 | D:6      | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form
  7930 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
  8126 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
  8247 | D:7      | Found Gynis Fau's Distillery.
  8530 | D:7      | Acquired Okawaru's first power
  8992 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8992 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  9315 | D:7      | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your unusually shaped body.
  9316 | D:7      | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your deformed body.
  9347 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 53/53 MP: 1/18
  9392 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
  9508 | D:7      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  9812 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
  9908 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  9908 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  9908 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 58/58 MP: 14/19
 10484 | D:8      | Noticed Psyche
 10500 | D:8      | Defeated Psyche
 10786 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
 11581 | D:8      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
 11586 | D:8      | Noticed Edmund
 11614 | D:8      | Defeated Edmund
 11628 | D:8      | Defeated Prince Ribbit
 11928 | D:8      | Learned a level 2 spell: Stoneskin
 12213 | D:8      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 12232 | D:8      | Noticed Grum
 12241 | D:8      | Reached skill level 7 in Transmutations
 12245 | D:8      | Defeated Grum
 12610 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 65/65 MP: 15/20
 12950 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 13199 | D:9      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
 13385 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13403 | D:10     | Noticed Jozef
 13418 | D:10     | Defeated Jozef
 13418 | D:10     | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
 13418 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
 13418 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic
 13661 | D:10     | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands
 14376 | D:10     | Found a flagged portal.
 14402 | bailey   | Entered the bailey
 15275 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 72/72 MP: 24/24
 15355 | D:10     | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
 15732 | D:11     | Found Gounuo's Armour Shoppe.
 15733 | D:11     | Found Yziptoku's Weapon Shoppe.
 15733 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 15790 | D:11     | Reached XP level 10. HP: 49/68 MP: 20/23
 16167 | D:11     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 57/73 MP: 22/24
 16307 | D:11     | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
 16422 | D:11     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 16544 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Traps & Doors
 16595 | D:11     | Found a frozen archway.
 16619 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 17073 | D:11     | Noticed Harold
 17085 | D:11     | Defeated Harold
 17485 | D:11     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 17485 | D:11     | HP: 1/74 [slime creature (13)]
 17500 | D:11     | HP: 3/74 [rat (1)]
 19184 | D:4      | Bought the brooch of Shielding {Ward AC+4 EV+4} for 426 gold pieces
 19190 | D:4      | Bought a bread ration for 40 gold pieces
 19221 | D:5      | Defeated Grinder
 19306 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 19451 | D:5      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 19477 | D:5      | Noticed an oklob plant
 20590 | D:7      | Noticed a hill giant
 20597 | D:7      | Defeated a hill giant
 21851 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 81/81 MP: 27/27
 22089 | D:12     | Acquired Okawaru's second power
 22426 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations
 22644 | D:12     | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
 23448 | D:13     | Noticed Maurice
 23581 | D:13     | Noticed a queen bee
 23725 | D:13     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 23747 | D:13     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 23805 | D:13     | Defeated Maurice
 23811 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 26529 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 27067 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 27253 | Lair:2   | You fall through a shaft!
 27311 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 27744 | Lair:4   | Noticed Gastronok
 27764 | Lair:4   | Defeated Gastronok
 27764 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 80/90 MP: 21/28
 28393 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 29978 | Lair:5   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 30042 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 30049 | Lair:5   | Got a faintly humming chain mail {god gift}
 30089 | Lair:5   | Identified the +6 chain mail "Vemeffeog" {god gift} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 30699 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 30826 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
 30833 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 31498 | Lair:7   | Noticed a redback
 31503 | Lair:7   | Defeated a redback
 32329 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 32375 | Lair:7   | HP: 1/91 [eight-headed hydra (11)]
 33440 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 91/98 MP: 27/30
 36138 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 36396 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 36456 | Shoals:1 | Noticed Wiglaf
 36823 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 36944 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Snorg
 36960 | Swamp:1  | Defeated Snorg
 37246 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Agnes
 37406 | D:13     | Found a staircase to the Hive.
 37415 | D:13     | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 37418 | D:13     | Defeated a queen bee
 37605 | Hive:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Hive
 37879 | Hive:2   | Entered Level 2 of the Hive
 37923 | Hive:2   | Gained mutation: You are weak (Str -1).
 37923 | Hive:2   | Gained mutation: You have a slow metabolism.
 38510 | Hive:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 39063 | Hive:2   | Learned a level 4 spell: Flight
 39069 | Hive:2   | Learned a level 5 spell: Silence
 39117 | Hive:2   | Lost mutation: You have a slow metabolism.
 39354 | D:14     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 40284 | D:14     | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 40349 | D:14     | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes
 41116 | D:14     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 106/106 MP: 32/32
 41401 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 14:14

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

If this guide you're talking about is on the Chaosforge wiki, I can tell you now that nearly all character guides on the wiki are absolute rubbish. The best thing would probably be to take them all down. As a rule: Never train anything that isn't going to help now. If you don't have any Necromancy spells train Unarmed Combat, Fighting, Dodging, Spellcasting, Transmutations, whatever would help you most now. If you find a book with necromancy spells you can go ahead and learn some and train the skill.
Turn off everything except Unarmed Combat till that reaches 20. For where you are, it is at a pretty low level. If you think your EV is becoming too low, maybe train some Dodging for a period of time before it hits 20.
You're not going to need more Transmutations over the whole course of the game. The highest-level transmutations a SETm is going to get are Blade Hands and possibly Statue Form, even though I personally think you can easily cope without that. On the other hand, your unarmed base damage is currently only 14 and that's a problem.

For this message the author cerebovssquire has received thanks:
varox

Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 13:38

Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 14:19

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

cerebovssquire wrote:If this guide you're talking about is on the Chaosforge wiki, I can tell you now that nearly all character guides on the wiki are absolute rubbish. The best thing would probably be to take them all down. As a rule: Never train anything that isn't going to help now. If you don't have any Necromancy spells train Unarmed Combat, Fighting, Dodging, Spellcasting, Transmutations, whatever would help you most now. If you find a book with necromancy spells you can go ahead and learn some and train the skill.
Turn off everything except Unarmed Combat till that reaches 20. For where you are, it is at a pretty low level. If you think your EV is becoming too low, maybe train some Dodging for a period of time before it hits 20.
You're not going to need more Transmutations over the whole course of the game. The highest-level transmutations a SETm is going to get are Blade Hands and possibly Statue Form, even though I personally think you can easily cope without that. On the other hand, your unarmed base damage is currently only 14 and that's a problem.


Thanks, I will definitely keep this in mind for future plays, and pray that I do find a necromancy book, as so the points don't go to waste.
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 14:23

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

I'd go ahead and turn off Necromancy for now if you don't have any of the spells yet. Level 9 in that along with your spc and int should allow you to cast the important low-level utility spells from that school (Dispel Undead, Vampiric Draining, etc) Once you do find those spells, raise it to 15 to get good spellpower for them.

Blade hands should carry you through the game no problem, so don't worry about that. I'd stop training so many skills at once, though. You should have no more than 3 skills turned on at a time, unless you're using automatic mode. Stop training fighting, it's not gonna benefit you much past level 10 in it. Turn everything else off except spellcasting and unarmed, and put a focus on unarmed. That's going to be your main source of melee damage as a transmuter, so unarmed should always be your highest skill (you get one point of unarmed damage per unarmed skill, and your attack speed reduces by 10% per 5 unarmed skill, specifically)

The main weakness of transmuters are having a source of ranged damage outside of Evaporate (or if you play trunk, outside of.. nothing, cause it got removed :roll: ) If you found any conjurations books, you should try to learn and train some conjurations for a reliable source of ranged damage. If not, then you can use weapons like a crossbow or sling (if using a shield. I'd say that if you plan on upgrading from blade hands to statue form that you use a shield since it won't meld in that form.) Maybe even throwing since SE gets a +2 apt to that, but only if you find a lot of javelins because those are the only good things to throw for anyone outside of trolls/ogres (who can use large rocks instead)

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 14:35

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

nosrepemos wrote:I'd go ahead and turn off Necromancy for now if you don't have any of the spells yet. Level 9 in that along with your spc and int should allow you to cast the important low-level utility spells from that school (Dispel Undead, Vampiric Draining, etc) Once you do find those spells, raise it to 15 to get good spellpower for them.

Blade hands should carry you through the game no problem, so don't worry about that. I'd stop training so many skills at once, though. You should have no more than 3 skills turned on at a time, unless you're using automatic mode. Stop training fighting, it's not gonna benefit you much past level 10 in it. Turn everything else off except spellcasting and unarmed, and put a focus on unarmed. That's going to be your main source of melee damage as a transmuter, so unarmed should always be your highest skill (you get one point of unarmed damage per unarmed skill, and your attack speed reduces by 10% per 5 unarmed skill, specifically)

The main weakness of transmuters are having a source of ranged damage outside of Evaporate (or if you play trunk, outside of.. nothing, cause it got removed :roll: ) If you found any conjurations books, you should try to learn and train some conjurations for a reliable source of ranged damage. If not, then you can use weapons like a crossbow or sling (if using a shield. I'd say that if you plan on upgrading from blade hands to statue form that you use a shield since it won't meld in that form.) Maybe even throwing since SE gets a +2 apt to that, but only if you find a lot of javelins because those are the only good things to throw for anyone outside of trolls/ogres (who can use large rocks instead)


The information regarding unarmed combat is helpful, I can now definitely see how it is going to be more important than raw fighting skill.

As for ranged, yeah it has already been on my mind. The tomes I've found so far have been auxiliary, if anything, (providing flight and silence to my arsenal) so I'll start looking for an alternative to conjurations.

Thanks much!

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 14:56

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

The sludge elf troll guide has failed.

Hybrids like this are hard to learn how to build (notice how unclear it is to you what to train). If you end up rolling another character, I'd like to suggest one that's not necessarily a hybrid. SEEE would be similar but not have the same problems, or you could try something like mdbe for extreme simplicity.
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 15:44

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

Having played (and killed) a lot of Tm, you want to get blade hands hungerless as soon as possible, so I'd train Spellcasting to do that since your Tm school is already pretty good. Choko isn't bad, but the damage increase from blade hands is enough that you want it up for almost every fight and that choko hunger will add up pretty quickly. I agree with the experts here that you also want to get your unarmed up to at least 15, but better 20 ASAP. Thirdly right now your flight and silence are pretty much useless, so train up air and or charms. Charms is pretty useful long term anyhow as you'll hopefully find haste, but charms alone won't help silence, only spellcasting, air or hexes will help with that.

Finally, the one downside of playing unarmed and honestly one of the reasons why I haven't played them too much recently is that you don't get the benefit of artefact weapons. Some games this can be a real downside, like say when the only source of rF is on that mace you found.

One final thing is that your str/dex is low for unarmed, IMO. Blade hands will add (str + dex)/2 to the damage. Unless you've got the books for nukes, your int is already too high. Dump the rest of your stats into str or dex (I'd say str but defer to the experts on this).

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 16:48

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

rebthor wrote:Having played (and killed) a lot of Tm, you want to get blade hands hungerless as soon as possible, so I'd train Spellcasting to do that since your Tm school is already pretty good. Choko isn't bad, but the damage increase from blade hands is enough that you want it up for almost every fight and that choko hunger will add up pretty quickly. I agree with the experts here that you also want to get your unarmed up to at least 15, but better 20 ASAP. Thirdly right now your flight and silence are pretty much useless, so train up air and or charms. Charms is pretty useful long term anyhow as you'll hopefully find haste, but charms alone won't help silence, only spellcasting, air or hexes will help with that.

Finally, the one downside of playing unarmed and honestly one of the reasons why I haven't played them too much recently is that you don't get the benefit of artefact weapons. Some games this can be a real downside, like say when the only source of rF is on that mace you found.

One final thing is that your str/dex is low for unarmed, IMO. Blade hands will add (str + dex)/2 to the damage. Unless you've got the books for nukes, your int is already too high. Dump the rest of your stats into str or dex (I'd say str but defer to the experts on this).


This is all good info, great to hear from someone with specific transmuter experience. I did consider putting points into str and dex, but I stacked int instead to keep myself open to more powerful spells. I had imagined being spell based with melee acting as secondary, not the other way around. From here on out I'll give int a break.

Also, I haven't yet pushed Okawaru into 6 stars, I generally sit on 5 and sometimes waver into 4 now and then. I'm pretty sparring with finesse, and have started to not rely so much on herosim, but I still can't seem to raise it any more than 5 stars. I also sacrifice pretty much every corpse to him. Any advice here would be helpful too.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 18:04

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

1) Even on Tm you still want to always raise INT. While STR and DEX do more for them than INT it doesn't do enough to justify missing out on the large benefits of INT.
2) It happens that you never reach 6* with Okawaru; I had this once on a primary ranged MiHu who naturally received a lot of ammo gifts... if you're getting gifts (he does gift at high 5*) this isn't a problem. If you're not, try to avoid frequent long travels between stashes and long breaks between killing people because this is responsible for piety decay.
3) Artefact weapons "like that mace of rF you found" are useless anyway because seriously, who wants to kill people with a mace past D:5. Take a look at statistics: a very high percentage of characters who do a lot of melee combat with weapons don't actually use artefact weapons. And even Tm can swap to a weapon for resists (and then flee and teleport) like any other character, if you End Transformation or weren't currently in the form.
4) I wouldn't waste any points in Slings or Conjurations at least till you solve your low Unarmed Combat and Dodging problem (I would never get either anyway and had no problem whatsoever winning Tm with nothing ranged except wands and unskiled javelins).
Last edited by cerebovssquire on Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 18:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 18:09

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

You're playing a Sludge Elf and need ranged? THROW SOMETHING (preferably a javelin).
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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 18:19

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

XuaXua wrote:You're playing a Sludge Elf and need ranged? THROW SOMETHING (preferably a javelin).


(oops, accidentally thanked instead of immediately quoting)
Throwing them unskilled to finish off fleeing creatures and using them with Heroism sounds fine, but I definitely wouldn't actually invest in the skill right now (I probably wouldn't ever but that's a lot more debatable, but right now it is a bad idea).

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Post Wednesday, 4th January 2012, 19:24

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

cerebovssquire wrote:1) Even on Tm you still want to always raise INT. While STR and DEX do more for them than INT it doesn't do enough to justify missing out on the large benefits of INT.
2) It happens that you never reach 6* with Okawaru; I had this once on a primary ranged MiHu who naturally received a lot of ammo gifts... if you're getting gifts (he does gift at high 5*) this isn't a problem. If you're not, try to avoid frequent long travels between stashes and long breaks between killing people because this is responsible for piety decay.
3) Artefact weapons "like that mace of rF you found" are useless anyway because seriously, who wants to kill people with a mace past D:5. Take a look at statistics: a very high percentage of characters who do a lot of melee combat with weapons don't actually use artefact weapons. And even Tm can swap to a weapon for resists (and then flee and teleport) like any other character, if you End Transformation or weren't currently in the form.
4) I wouldn't waste any points in Slings or Conjurations at least till you solve your low Unarmed Combat and Dodging problem (I would never get either anyway and had no problem whatsoever winning Tm with nothing ranged except wands and unskiled javelins).

You are far more experienced than I am at Crawl, but he's running a Tm with Str 9. That seems awfully low to me.
Regarding the weapon thing, I agree with you; however inn general keeping appropriate resists available is a pain on Tm due to many forms melding armor / weapons / shields. On the other side of the coin, statue form I guess.

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Post Thursday, 5th January 2012, 14:49

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

Slain by Mennas on Crypt 2.

My best run by far, though. Thanks everyone for the assistance.

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Post Friday, 6th January 2012, 13:42

Re: CIP SeTr requesting assistance

Ouch. Condolences.

Transmuter vs. Mennas is up there on the difficulty scale. All of the issues that engaging Mennas in melee entails, with the added bonus of how casters deal with his silence field. Yuck.
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