YASD: How could I have prevented this? (relative newbie)

[tasonir]

Still focusing on trying to learn the game with kobold berserkers, although I'm thinking I might try spriggan enchanters soon, they seem popular, and I do like intrinsic speed But as for this KoBe, here's his dump:

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1 character file.

1386 Tasonir the Nimble (level 8, -1/73 HPs)
             Began as a Kobold Berserker on Nov 26, 2011.
             Was an Elder of Trog.
             Slain by an ice beast (15 damage)
             ... on Level 7 of the Dungeon on Nov 27, 2011.
             The game lasted 00:35:35 (5340 turns).

Tasonir the Nimble (Kobold Berserker)                                                                       Turns: 5340, Time: 00:35:35

HP  -1/73        AC  4     Str 23      XL: 8   Next: 58%
MP   7/7         EV 20     Int  7      God: Trog [****..]
Gold 280         SH  0     Dex 17      Spells:  0 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    J - +2,+11 dagger of Fedhas' Approval {slay or
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  t - +1 robe
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (no helmet)
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : .    D - -2 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    A - +1 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    (no ring)
Saprovore : + + .   Ctrl.Flight: .    B - +2 ring of intelligence

@: berserking, very quick, slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: disease resistance, carnivore 3, saprovore 2
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Invisibility


You were on level 7 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 7 of its levels.

You collected 260 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +0,+0 mace
 d - a +2,+0 elven short sword
 u - a +0,+0 dwarven short sword
 v - a +2,+0 dagger of draining
 y - a -1,+1 orcish short sword
 C - a +2,+4 quarterstaff of chaos
 E - a -1,-3 sling
 J - the +2,+11 dagger of Fedhas' Approval (weapon) {slay orc, Noisy +Rage +Inv rPois Str+2}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It is especially effective against all of orcish descent.
   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you turn invisible.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes noises.
Missiles
 l - 7 +0 stones
 o - 51 +0 darts (quivered)
 x - 26 poisoned +0 needles
 F - a +0 dart of frost
 H - 13 poisoned +0 sling bullets
Armour
 b - a +0 animal skin
 s - a +1 ring mail
 t - a +1 robe (worn)
 A - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 D - a -2 cloak (worn)
Magical devices
 q - a wand of fireball (5)
Comestibles
 c - 5 meat rations
 I - a beef jerky
Scrolls
 e - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 f - 4 scrolls of detect curse
 h - a scroll of blinking {unknown}
 k - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 m - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II {unknown}
 p - 4 scrolls of identify
 z - a scroll of magic mapping {unknown}
 G - a scroll of curse armour {unknown}
Jewellery
 B - a +2 ring of intelligence (left hand)
Potions
 g - 6 potions of healing {unknown}
 i - 2 potions of brilliance {unknown}
 n - a potion of restore abilities {unknown}
 r - a potion of agility {unknown}
 w - a potion of invisibility {unknown}


   Skills:
 + Level 5 Fighting
 + Level 4 Short Blades
 - Level 3 Maces & Flails
 + Level 2 Slings
 + Level 2 Throwing
 - Level 1 Armour
 + Level 8 Dodging
 + Level 3 Stealth
 + Level 1 Stabbing
 + Level 1 Traps & Doors


You had 7 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (7/27)           
Temple: D:4-7          Orc: D:6-11     

Altars:
Fedhas
The Shining One

Shops:
D:6: (


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You recuperate from illness quickly.
You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are carnivorous and can eat meat at any time.
You can eat rotten meat.


Message History

You hit the ice beast, but do no damage.
The ice beast is lightly wounded.
You slash the ice beast!
The ice beast is moderately wounded.
The ice beast hits you. The ice beast freezes you!
Your potion of might freezes and shatters!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Found a tubular bronze ring. Found a stone staircase leading down.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You can't go up here!
The ice beast hits you but does no damage.
You climb downwards.
2 bats come into view.
The ice beast barely misses you.
Found a scroll of identify, a quarterstaff and 15 stones.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
Use which ability? (? or * to list)
A red film seems to cover your vision as you go berserk!
You feel yourself moving faster! You feel mighty! You feel somewhat more hungry. The ice beast hits you. The ice beast freezes you!
You die...

     #.#
     #.#...
     #.#....
     ........
     #........
     #........
     #b...b...
     #?I.).....
     #@........
 #.............
 #.......#####
 #.....###
...#(..#
.#######


You could see an ice beast and 2 bats.

Vanquished Creatures
  Grinder (D:3)
  2 sky beasts
  A centaur (D:4)
  2 ogres
  A hound (D:4)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:3)
  An orc wizard (D:3)
  5 worker ants
  2 iguanas
  Ijyb (D:3)
  Jessica (D:2)
  5 snakes
  An iguana skeleton (D:5)
  2 snake skeletons (D:4)
  A worm (D:6)
  2 giant geckos
  15 orcs
  8 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  8 kobolds
  2 small snakes
  12 bats
  5 giant cockroaches
  6 giant newts
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4)
  22 rats
  5 fungi (D:3)
125 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Tasonir, the Kobold Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 0/0
   137 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
   258 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 18/20 MP: 1/1
   514 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
   771 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 20/24 MP: 2/2
  1076 | D:2      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  1122 | D:2      | Acquired Trog's second power
  1377 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  1377 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 21/29 MP: 3/3
  1418 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  1427 | D:2      | Defeated Jessica
  1987 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  1997 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns
  2007 | D:3      | Defeated Grinder
  2007 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  2007 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  2007 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Traps & Doors
  2007 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 7/34 MP: 4/4
  2007 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 7/39 MP: 5/5
  2330 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
  2330 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 44/44 MP: 6/6
  2755 | D:3      | Noticed Ijyb
  2767 | D:3      | Defeated Ijyb
  3074 | D:3      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  3086 | D:3      | Defeated Crazy Yiuf
  3727 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
  3731 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 49/49 MP: 7/7
  3925 | D:4      | Acquired Trog's third power
  4015 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Stabbing
  4412 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
  4683 | D:4      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  4776 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4780 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  5153 | D:6      | Found Oshiec's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
  5181 | D:6      | Got a slimy dagger
  5207 | D:6      | Identified the dagger of Fedhas' Approval {slay orc, Noisy +Rage +Inv rPois Str+2} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  5340 | D:7      | Slain by an ice beast



2 basic questions: What should I have done instead of trying to outrun the ice beast (with no haste) and last-resort berserking? I had a teleport scroll, and could invoke invis...I'm not sure if ice beasts see invis or if I could survive the teleport delay. Tips appreciated

2) How good is the artefact I managed to have for all of 133 turns? Would something like a 2/11 dagger with those properties hold up until end game? or does something like a +4 quick blade just outpace it easily? Does having +rage (from the dagger or more commonly from a rage amulet) improve trog's rage, or do they not affect each other?

Thanks for any tips, I'm hoping to one day get into some side branches, heh....

[defen]

Get to within 2-3 tiles of the stairs (with you being between the ice beast and the stairs). Berserk. Run to the stairs, go up before it wears off.

Alternatively, use Brothers in Arms; even the crappiest brother will wipe the floor with the beast. It has a high rate of failure at four pips, though.

In your particular case, use the wand of fireball. Ice creatures take metric assloads of damage from fire.

A 2/11 dagger will not hold up very far. A quickblade will be vastly superior in nearly all circumstances.

Your -2 cloak is hurting you. Take it off as soon as the jelly is dead.

Identify any large stacks of potions/scrolls as soon as you clear a level.

Manage your skills better. If you are switching to short blades (I've had more success sticking with M&F as KoBe, but either works), turn everything else off until you hit minimum delay with your weapon of choice. Maybe work a little stealth in once you're hitting consistently. 8 dodging and 4 weapon skill is a losing combination.

[tasonir]

Yeah I thought of the brother in arms after I posted, but like you I was afraid of failure at only 4 pips. I've been trying to get to 6 so I can play around with the skill more, I still haven't cast it in any of my runs. I've been to 5 pips, but never at 6.

I think I need to check my inventory more often, I'm not even sure I was aware of the fireball wand until after I died.

How can I tell when I hit the minimum delay with a weapon? I'll try turning off everything but short blades for a few runs, then maybe try a couple where I stick with maces. Thanks for the tips

Edit: the battle with the jelly that ruined my cloak was just before the ice beast and I didn't have the time to remove it yet, but I was going to.

[rchandra]

How can I tell when I hit the minimum delay with a weapon? I'll try turning off everything but short blades for a few runs, then maybe try a couple where I stick with maces. Thanks for the tips :)

If you look at a weapon, you'll see its base "attack delay". For every two points of that weapon skill you have, you can remove 10% (linearly) from it, until it hits half of the original or 70%, whichever is lower. So for most one-handed weapons you need skill = base delay / 10.

A noisy dagger is quite bad, as the main benefit of daggers is better stabbing and that noise will ruin your stealth.

Sometimes you can get away with teleport by activating it then running, only one free attack is given. Of course sometimes random teleports will just make things worse, especially later on.

[mageykun]

I find it's easier to just check your attack speed by hitting "@". When your attack speed reaches "quite fast", you've hit minimum delay. Unless you've got a quickblade or a speed branded weapon, then the minimum is at "blindingly fast".

Also, the wiki has this nice chart which among other things, tells you what the minimum delay actually is for various weapons, and what weapon skill they need to get there.

[cerebovssquire]

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Weapon_Speed

this nice chart with all the outdated weapon speeds and damage.

Henzell, guys, seriously. Going to the wiki is about as effective as not spoiling yourself at all.

[mikee]

There are quite a few ways you could have killed this monster if you had reacted earlier. Some people have pointed out the wand and BIA, but also just berserking a few turns earlier would have killed it. This is just a matter of threat assessment. You also had a lot of useful potions which were unidentified and 4 unused identify scrolls.

A +11 dagger is actually very good early on, even with noisy and the other nonsense properties on it.

[rebthor]

If you're going to run, you need to run earlier. As soon as you started taking serious damage from the ice beast, you should have hit for regen and then decided, am I going to run for it or am I going to try to kill it. If you're going to run for it, then read that tele scroll, maybe hit a BiA in case it works if you've still got separation and then hoof it. If you're going to fight, then again, try a BiA if you've got separation or throw something to get a little damage against it, then rage.

Also, never go up or down stairs when standing next to something *unless* your goal is to pull it up or down with you (don't go down unless you're desperate). This is often useful when you've got a ton of orcs, gnolls, bees, sheep, yaks, etc. around if you can maneuver so that only a few are next to you and then go up stairs and pick them off. They'll still get free hits, but you'll be able to manage them better on a cleared level. When you went down the stairs with the ice beast, all you did was give it a free hit because it was standing next to you. It turns out that it didn't hurt you this time, though.