CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?


Yet Another Stupid Death - Find a particularly innovative way to get killed? Share your pain!
Yet Another Victory Post - Brag about your bad-ass character and all your runes and whatnot.
Characters in Progress - share promising or interesting characters that are not dead yet.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 20:57

CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

I have a Troll Monk novice of Ru who rejected the first set of sacrifices.

I'm training Unarmed, Throwing, and Dodging. An armour boutique at D:9 has this:

The quicksilver dragon scales of Cloud Cover {+Blink rC++ MR+ Regen+ Dex-5}

(Base 9 AC and 7 encumbrance)

Do you think this item alone warrants abandoning Ru for another deity? With Ru I would probably end up sacrificing artifice sooner or later, which means blink is gone. On the other hand Dex-5 is awkward for a dodging troll (I'm putting all my points into Dex which might explain my displeasure).

I also already have a few good wands: acid, scattershot (saving for hydras) and digging I believe. To succeed against hydras without these I would have to find some large rocks, which is not a given.

If not Ru, then what deity? Qazlal would make a good cloud cover indeed, and -1 Invocation aptitude is Trollish for good. I would have a chance to maximize my resists, I would gain some artillery, SH. Stealth is not going to be great with -5 and heavier armor anyway. Alternatively, I could go with Wu Jian Council, which also provides cloud cover and doesn't need xp in Invocations. Blink might combine well with movement-aware powers and the final power does provide could cover.

So far I've only bought a +2 hat and a randart ring which I'm not going to put on until the next scroll of identify. The armor is 1377 gold pieces. Definitely not going to run a Kickstarter campaign in Orcish Mines before I'm ready.

Blades Runner

Posts: 584

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 21:07

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

If you want to self-troll pick Sif Muna or Xom.

If you want a strong troll pick Trog, keep Ru, pick Okawaru/Hep/whatever isn't dependent on casting spells.

If you've invested in throwing from early on, you can kill hydras reasonably consistently by throwing boomerangs. Obviously javelins and and large rocks do better. I wouldn't recommend investing in this heavily unless you pick Okawaru or have shoals (there are TONS of boomerangs and javelins in shoals, and the inhabitants are willing to deliver).

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 21:13

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

I feel that Trog and Okawaru are doing what I'm already good at. Ru encourages me to gimp that armor. Do you really mean spells, or invocations?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6317

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 21:26

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

The odds that you'll be *offered* sacrifice artifice aren't amazing in the first place, and if you haven't taken it yet, then there's no real good reason you should if you have good things to evoke (like that armour) blinking all over the place and pelting things with large rocks until they come into range and using ru's powers for get out of jail free cards sounds pretty darn good, and even if you *are* offered sacrifice artifice, and don't take it, it's not like waiting a little longer to get ru's powers fully awakened is that big of a deal.

Ru is pretty damn good (even if you have that armour equipped), but you don't lose anything if you go with someone else, except the time you've already invested waiting for Ru's second sacrifice (and the time you could've spent accruing piety with another god)

That being said, Ru's not the only powerful god, there's a literal pantheon to choose from, so if you feel like switching, just pick something that's not going to screw you over. :)

Honestly I find 'sacrifice artifice' one of the most handicapping of all Ru's potential sacrifices, I only rarely pick it because there's so many good things you're giving up.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks:
Stairdancer

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 21:34

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

I only had one Ru character so far, but I think I can only sacrifice Arcana once? I mean the 3x spell school thing. I just don't see many things a Troll can sacrifice to get to max piety in reasonable time. I'm going to keep both Nimbleness and Durability (armor). Not a hand, not an eye, not courage, drink, words. Love, Scream, Arcana, Stealth don't seem to be worth that much piety together.

Regarding Artifice - stuff that doesn't need much Evo is wand of clouds and digging. Other wands and evocables get relatively weak over time if you don't train Evo.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6317

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Tuesday, 21st January 2020, 22:13

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

b0rsuk wrote:I only had one Ru character so far, but I think I can only sacrifice Arcana once? I mean the 3x spell school thing. I just don't see many things a Troll can sacrifice to get to max piety in reasonable time. I'm going to keep both Nimbleness and Durability (armor). Not a hand, not an eye, not courage, drink, words. Love, Scream, Arcana, Stealth don't seem to be worth that much piety together.

Regarding Artifice - stuff that doesn't need much Evo is wand of clouds and digging. Other wands and evocables get relatively weak over time if you don't train Evo.


Yeah, I wouldn't sac dodge or armour on a troll (in particular armour would be a bad choice if you stick with that body armour), but Sacing an Eye is pretty trivial (it's the same as wearing an amulet of inacc, you're already pretty darn accurate from skills, typically)

Love is actually worth a good amount (more than Dodge/Armour), stealth and arcana are both middle-range, there's actually a bunch of middle-to-low-value things (-2ac,-10% hp/mp, -Wiz etc) that get you there eventually too (Also Sac resistance is worth a lot, but maybe not worth it)

Hand is tough for a troll, trolls like shields a lot, and losing a ring slot is annoying (Although by itself it gets you more than halfway to apocolypse) I would probably also skip hand

Scream and arcana also fall into that middle-value range, I also don't think it is possible to get it multiple times (I may have had the opportunity once, but if I did it was a long time ago)

Courage and drink (and scrolls) are all not fun sacrifices (but all pretty valuable), courage is probably the most managable of the three, but causes tedium because you spend more time manging things-in-LOS than you otherwise would.The other two put you into precarious positions when you want to use an emergency consumable, but courage just makes you worse at killing things, which is an Ok tradeoff I feel like. FWIW all three of these are similar in value to Armour/Dodging are alone.

Experience is probably the other big one i would favor with this character (two extra XP levels isn't that big of a deal, comparitively speaking) I'd rather sac XP than Artifice on this character

I find that *usually* I end up with one biggo sacrifice and a bunch of medium/small ones, getting there with only a few big sacrifices is possible, but rare, it's kind of fun though to have this weirdly limited character

Also Clouds do get better with more Evo (acid clouds are amazing) although it's inconsistent.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2020, 10:40

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

Okay, I read that Qazlal degenerates into Stair Defense. I'll stick with Ru. No way I'm sacrificing Artifice now. I've found a Lightning Rod on D:10, and... another one on Lair:1.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1189

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Wednesday, 22nd January 2020, 17:34

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

Yeah, Qazlal is definitely not a stronger god. But it can be fun...

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Monday, 14th March 2011, 11:14

Post Thursday, 23rd January 2020, 09:48

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

For your information, the troll died soon after purchasing his armor on D:13 in an incident involving a death knight and a spectral warrior. It seems to be a pattern to my characters: when I play a dumb race and finally somehow get a good body armor, I get a kick of overconfidence. And anyway, there's Unfitting Armor mutation on trolls so they don't even get that much AC.

Dis Charger

Posts: 2128

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Thursday, 23rd January 2020, 18:14

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

b0rsuk wrote:And anyway, there's Unfitting Armor mutation on trolls so they don't even get that much AC.

No, no. You are thinking of the Deformed Body mutation (which halves the base AC of your body armour) but trolls don't have that. This "Unfitting Armor" only means that you can't wear normal stuff like plates and such.

For this message the author Magipi has received thanks:
Airwolf

Temple Termagant

Posts: 14

Joined: Wednesday, 24th July 2019, 12:00

Post Thursday, 13th February 2020, 22:23

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

I actually always thought that Ru is the perfect god for a troll (and that troll is the perfect Ru species).
Reason is power curves. Trolls start out insane insane strong, could easily get past lair without a god, but unless they have really good item luck they fall behind a bit from there (especially compared to other easy starts like mibe, ddfi etc). Ru is the opposite, takes a while to get apo, but once it is online it is pretty much gg unless you derp hard. Combine the two you are covered for the whole run.

I would not abandon (i would also not reject first sacrifice except super super rare cases). If i abandon i would definitely not do it because the god doesnt synergize well with some armour. You can still wear that armour just fine probably. Dont get to evoke blink? Big deal. Like 3 scrolls of blink should cover all your needs for a whole run of troll^ru.

Also if i abandoned i would go Jiyva 100% of the time. It is OPTIMAL my friend. (or...essential? i forgot.)

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5318

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 20th February 2020, 00:45

Re: CIP: Should Troll use this great armor?

The quicksilver dragon scales of Cloud Cover {+Blink rC++ MR+ Regen+ Dex-5}

Is an amazing armor. If you get offered and accept sac artifice, then you end up with:

The quicksilver dragon scales of Cloud Cover {rC++ MR+ Regen+ Dex-5}

This is also amazing armor. I don't see any problem here. Losing dex hurts, especially if you were putting points into dex and dodging, but I'd say just keep doing that. You'll still get EV, just slightly less. The armor is good enough to make up for it. And it's not like you're going to waste any enchant armor scrolls on it, since it's immune to them. If you find better dragon scales later, just move on to them.

Return to YASD! YAVP! and characters in progress too

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.