YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb


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Snake Sneak

Posts: 101

Joined: Thursday, 7th February 2019, 14:02

Post Thursday, 15th August 2019, 11:39

YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

Sometimes I hate this game.
I was within sight of the orb and got abyssed straight to level 5 by an ancient lich.

Morgue:
https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/MrDizzy/morgue-MrDizzy-20190815-113614.txt
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4314

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Thursday, 15th August 2019, 12:10

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

Next time, don't wear this:
  Code:
J - the ring of Midwinter (left hand) {+Inv rN+ MR- Dex+4 Slay+2}

You want at least MR+++ in Zot.
...{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE
{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWz
DDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGl

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 163

Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Location: United States

Post Thursday, 15th August 2019, 19:40

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

That's a fine ring, just swap it out when something with hexes shows up (like a lich).

You want better defenses though, this is really subpar for a spell-less shield character. The +0 artifact cloak I understand, it has properties that are way better than 2 AC, but every other armour looks so bad. Surely you had a better body armor available than the +0 non-artifact one you were wearing. Not to mention boots and gloves were only at +1, and the hat was not a helmet.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 101

Joined: Thursday, 7th February 2019, 14:02

Post Tuesday, 20th August 2019, 13:51

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

stormdragon wrote:That's a fine ring, just swap it out when something with hexes shows up (like a lich).

You want better defenses though, this is really subpar for a spell-less shield character. The +0 artifact cloak I understand, it has properties that are way better than 2 AC, but every other armour looks so bad. Surely you had a better body armor available than the +0 non-artifact one you were wearing. Not to mention boots and gloves were only at +1, and the hat was not a helmet.


Unfortunately, there wasn't any decent artifact armour in this game. There was a non-artifact crystal plate, but I wore the gold dragon armour because I figured 2 less AC was a decent trade-off for the resistances.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 485

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Thursday, 22nd August 2019, 17:57

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

stormdragon wrote:That's a fine ring, just swap it out when something with hexes shows up (like a lich).

You want better defenses though, this is really subpar for a spell-less shield character. The +0 artifact cloak I understand, it has properties that are way better than 2 AC, but every other armour looks so bad. Surely you had a better body armor available than the +0 non-artifact one you were wearing. Not to mention boots and gloves were only at +1, and the hat was not a helmet.


If you change his morgue's file extension to .lst you can actually look at what was available in his game. He could have worn a plate armor of cold resist with a couple enchants or something, but aside from that it doesn't look like he actually had meaningfully better options in the body armor slot.

Also some games don't give MR options no matter what you do. Usually by Zot you have them, but I've been to depths *after* elf/vaults and had nothing giving MR except body armor (there were several of those, but you can only wear one). In 500+ games I've died to a paralysis that way once. I've also been abyss'd a few times like that, but I only died that way before I was used to the abyss.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 163

Joined: Monday, 2nd July 2018, 16:47

Location: United States

Post Thursday, 22nd August 2019, 21:15

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

TheMeInTeam wrote:If you change his morgue's file extension to .lst you can actually look at what was available in his game.

That's a cool feature. I wish it showed the EA scrolls though.

There were a few ways to scrape together more AC - I see +2 boots, +1 helmet, +0 CPA - and I personally would have used those, but I know there would be some tradeoff and it would not be a huge net positive.

Not swapping the MR- ring out was devastating for this character. I feel your pain, it is frustrating to die for not optimizing your jewelry every turn. It really is a big part of the game.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1176

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Friday, 23rd August 2019, 03:56

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

You didn't *need* Axes skill past 18. You could have gotten a bit better defense by training Fighting, Armour, Shields, or Dodging. Again, not a huge difference though.
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 62

Joined: Thursday, 20th March 2014, 13:09

Post Friday, 23rd August 2019, 06:31

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

Yah, you can get banished just fine with mr +++, the gear is fine, in particular the slay means that if you're actually hitting the lich with that damage it becomes dubious value to take it off. Very unfortunate with the enchant armor scroll rng but that's life.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4314

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Friday, 23rd August 2019, 07:02

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

Slay+2 is nothing compared to MR-. The best part of that ring is +Inv, and it would have been better to use it as a swap for when you want to go invisible, for example when dealing with draconian packs or ghost moths. Personally, I would have worn even something like +3 EV or AC ring as a default, if available.

Surviving in Crawl is mostly about managing the worst-case* scenarios. There's no need to make yourself more likely to be paralyzed or banished. Of course you could swap the ring off when necessary, but you could also be paralyzed or banished immediately when the alich comes into view.


*Meaning scenarios that have a reasonable chance of happening.
...{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE
{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWz
DDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGl

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 485

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Friday, 23rd August 2019, 16:25

Re: YASD: Abyssed within sight of the orb

Sprucery wrote:Slay+2 is nothing compared to MR-. The best part of that ring is +Inv, and it would have been better to use it as a swap for when you want to go invisible, for example when dealing with draconian packs or ghost moths. Personally, I would have worn even something like +3 EV or AC ring as a default, if available.

Surviving in Crawl is mostly about managing the worst-case* scenarios. There's no need to make yourself more likely to be paralyzed or banished. Of course you could swap the ring off when necessary, but you could also be paralyzed or banished immediately when the alich comes into view.


*Meaning scenarios that have a reasonable chance of happening.


Once you play enough games, "reasonable" chance starts feeling like a pretty low number.

I learned that lesson the hard way. Had an ancient lich summon a fiend. Tabbed once, got 100 --> 0'd with 170 health. Torment then a high damage crystal spear through 20 EV and a +5 shield with shields at 15, dead. The odds of that exact sequence going off were low, but it was something I knew could happen and there were ways to prevent it.

At some point you have to ask yourself "is there a chance I can get killed or put in a situation where I depend on RNG to survive in future turns before I make another move?". If the answer to that question is "yes", you have a problem. Crawl has many tens of thousands of turns, and any time you take a 0.5% chance of dying, it adds up. Do this 50 times a game and you'll lose 22% of the time just to this one type of mistake (disregarding very low odds of death in any one instance).

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