CIP (YASD now): VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize


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Temple Termagant

Posts: 14

Joined: Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 09:43

Post Sunday, 4th August 2019, 08:36

CIP (YASD now): VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Hi,

I have ascended two very tanky characters so far and am now trying to get a hybrid win. This is the first time I tried to start VS fighter and then worship Kiku to get into necromancy. I'm now heading to midgame and making plans what spells I will be using in the near future.

I got two gifts already that contained Animate Dead, Corpse Rot, Pain, Vampiric Draining, Sublimation of Blood, Borgnjor's vc, Dispel Undead, Simulacrum and found bunch of other spellbooks. Found this sweet +8 chain mail with +2 slay that feels like worth using as armor now even if it delays getting into magic. My plan for now is to finish getting shields to 15, skill necromancy ( and maybe dodge ) and maybe use animate dead to help clear the lair. Some hexes for sure because I found confusing touch and it is awesome.

Not sure how effective Vampiric Draining is when you get into Necromancy this late. I feel like there might be some small window when it will be usefull but other than that just hitting enemies with melee weapon might be better choice.

Maybe it is worth skilling also ice magic and then switching to lighter armor to make simulacrum available sooner or do some earth magic and be able to cast Borgnjor's?

It is also tempting to switch into maces since I found that randart morningstar with pain brand and even +rF . With this character it might be better to just go little bit heavier armor and forget about high lever spells and just brand some normal spear later. That morningstar is so heavily enchanted that it might be worth using without any skill levels though.

How would you go forward with this character if you would try to get probably 3 but maybe max. 5 runes?

chardump: https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/Jabberih/Jabberih.txt
Last edited by Jabberi on Tuesday, 6th August 2019, 09:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Slime Squisher

Posts: 332

Joined: Sunday, 27th January 2019, 13:50

Post Sunday, 4th August 2019, 09:18

Re: CIP: VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Your skilling doesn't look very hybrid-friendly to me. The overall versatility is quite low.
First: you need a skill that raises MP (and your effective HP by extension). That means Spellcasting and/or Evocations. I would recommend Evocations first, because the assorted wands in the inventory can wreck a lot of encounters with little XP invested.

Another problem is the defensive side: you have eliminated shield penalties, that's good. You have almost no Armour skill, which hurts if your chosen gear has ER 15. You have zero in Dodging, and that can really screw you over when facing bolt-casters. Personally, I'd switch off Shields now and skill the other two up with Evo.

About the spells, anything that can help with healing is good. Regeneration, Vampiric (both the spell and weapon) will help survival. Get them, and use them whenever you can get away with it. The morningstar randart is almost endgame quality, I would not use the 6* gift on branding. Take the book instead.
There is always something new to learn.

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Jabberi
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1891

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Sunday, 4th August 2019, 09:23

Re: CIP: VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Don't bother getting shields to 15 for now, 13 is already enough.

You need 2 more Polearms levels for trident mindelay. Do you have any branded spear somewhere ? It could be good as well. With Kiku, a pain spear is totally viable for 3-5 runes.

I would focus on Fighting + Necromancy for then Armour + Dodging for your defenses.
Online stats
Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

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Temple Termagant

Posts: 14

Joined: Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 09:43

Post Monday, 5th August 2019, 06:50

Re: CIP: VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Thanks for the tips.

It seems like I have been skilling badly all these games, neglecting the cheap bonuses early skill levels give and investing too much into getting dimishing returns from later levels (like the shields-skill this game).

Status update: Cleared Lair, Orc and Dungeon. Got some levels in armor, dodging, fighting and 10 evo. Some hexes for confusing touch. Decided to start training maces because there are no good polearms at this point. Training Necromancy all the time, hoping to get maybe haunt or simulacrum castable later. Boots of running were a lucky find. They were less than 200 gold in a shop, what a bargain.

Found so many spell books it is tempting to get some other spell school online. Lightning spire is only level 4 but dual school. Wonder how viable choice that would be later.

Dump of the original post is updated.

edit. just noticed I got deformed body mutation. Time to play !mutation roulette.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1174

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Monday, 5th August 2019, 17:32

Re: CIP: VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Enchant the boots of running, if not your gloves, too.

Don't bother with Lightning Spire. Receive Corpses and Animate Dead are your almost-instant army. Add Simulacrum later, and Death Channel, Haunt, and/or Infestation if you find them. (Yes, take the Necronomicon gift since you can't improve much on that pain morningstar.) Use them often. They will destroy everything.

Spread unending torment and darkness!

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Jabberi

Temple Termagant

Posts: 14

Joined: Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 09:43

Post Monday, 5th August 2019, 20:37

Re: CIP: VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Update: Took the Necronomicon but am unable to cast anything from it yet. With staff of wizardry and maybe if I find good lighter armor infestation might become viable endgame spell. Tried to do Shoals but got almost nuked by invisible Ilsuiw on 4th floor.

With no good source of see invisible found yet I decided to do Spider first instead. It went very smoothly until I ran into Frances and almost got killed. She is now somewhere near the stairs so I risk getting too close to her if I go back there. I guess I could zerg rush her with multiple corpse deliveries and animate dead if she is not near the stairs but maybe trying to avoid Ilsuiw and snatching the rune from Shoals to do couple of Vault levels might be safer option first.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 14

Joined: Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 09:43

Post Tuesday, 6th August 2019, 09:51

Re: CIP (YASD now): VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Update: Cleared Spider and most of Shoals but V5 proved to be too great challenge.

Cleared the center but after teleporting away didn't find place to regenerate and after many poorly placed teleports landed near the upstairs. I tried to run for the stairs with low hp. Thought I was going to make it but then the random warden appeared and closed the stairs, leaving me fighting against strong enemies.

Some spectator said the boots found on V5 are better than boots of running. I wonder if that was the case. Lots of STR at least.

This char wasn't really success as a hybrid. It played a lot like basic Yred bruiser. Mainly thanks to starting with medium shield and finding that highly enchanted chain mail and no great light armor.

https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/Jabberih/morgue-Jabberih-20190806-092829.txt
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1891

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Tuesday, 6th August 2019, 13:52

Re: CIP (YASD now): VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Vaults:5 is a really hard place, and should generally not be done right after Vaults:1-4. I usually clear Depths before, and often consider slimy or abyssal as my third rune.

We could discuss about some emergency options : ?fog, turn invisible (while hasted, you have few turns before Contam is an issue), but I think the main issue is the danger level of this floor. Teleportation unluck + wardens can really destroy you.

I don't agree about the boots being better, you already had rF++ which is way enough, maybe it would have improved your EV a little, but at the cost of -2AC and -4 Int. Running boots are really good.
Online stats
Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1174

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Tuesday, 6th August 2019, 17:07

Re: CIP (YASD now): VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

Yes, I almost always clear Depths, Crypt, and Elf before V:5.

Search back for a great post from duvessa on strategies for V:5. Basically, you want to get out of the middle and into the closest thing to a killhole you can find. Use haste, might, etc before you enter. If possible, take a hatch or trapdoor down from V:4 so you don't start in the middle of V:5. If you have to take the stairs, read mapping on your first turn, choose which quadrant gives you the most cover, and run or read blinking into it. Use everything you have to overwhelm attackers, e.g. zombies, simulacra, Death Channel, etc, because it might be a very long battle and you need to keep your HP up. Teleport if you think a random location is better than your current one because of too many monsters or not enough cover.

RIP.

EDIT: Oh, you were flayed. Try to kill flayed ghosts fast because flay temporarily takes big chunks of your HP.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 422

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Wednesday, 7th August 2019, 15:59

Re: CIP (YASD now): VSFi of Kiku, thinking how to hybridize

There are numerous ways to deal with vaults 5. Screen clearing spells will work, darkness/silence will work, even discord gets the job done and hexers can cast it for this scenario with brilliance.

One of the easier combos to use is just OTR + ignite poison. You can also just stairdance a tanky character with pproj or a god ability that can quickly kill wardens. Speaking of god abilities, stuff like drain life, making oklob plants, disaster area, apocalypse, etc. get the job done too. Alternatively just get the slime rune.

But yeah unless doing some challenge variant you usually want 3rd rune after elf/vaults 1-4/depths.

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