Bare handed Ogre?

[Night2o1]

I've had this irresistible urge to play Ogres since probably the second day I ever played stone soup. Beyond that, I'm obsessed with the idea that a bare-handed ogre should be able to crush his enemies, because he's bigger than them god damn it. And I'd like to do it without changing form (ie no transmutation.. except maybe statue form).

So I'm trying to figure out how to make a bare handed ogre successful, but his damage just ends up being pitiful and I haven't cleared past level 10/~dungeon 9 with any of my bare handed ogres, and I ever had to stoop to putting on a giant spike club in order to survive a couple of particularly harrowing encounters.

Anyone have any suggestions on ways to approach this? I've rolled several OgHe to play this way and they seem to work OK. I had an OgMo who got to level 9 or 10. I decided to choose makhleb for extra rofls (imagine a violent giant running around smashing things and hurling beams of death almost at random), but I died like two seconds after I earned the lesser beam.

Perhaps I should go for OgMo and worship trog asap?

What other choices might there be?

[Happy Corner]

Trog could work, although his rain of weapon gifts will be useless if you insist on staying barehanded.

Okawaru might be another choice, as he gives armor, too, and his early combat boost would help you survive.

Then there's Nemelex Xobeh, if your character concept will allow for magical decks. That's fairly easy to cultivate to powerful levels.

[Night2o1]

Yep!

Just fishing for possibilities on ways to make it work. How bad is the shield penalty on unarmed combat btw? I hear ogres have the easiest time using large shields, but I am not sure I understand how shields effect unarmed strikes and spell casting..

NVM I knowledge bot had a clear answer, at shield skill 9 the casting and speed penalties are totally removed for Ogres and Trolls on medium shield and 15 shield skill for large shields

[Jeremiah]

OgEE?

Stoneskin will give you an early AC boost before you are likely to find any armour you could wear, and you get a headstart on getting to Statue Form if you ever find it.

[Night2o1]

I've tried OgEE a couple of times with this idea, but it seems stoneskin doesn't really do fuck-all and EE start with 0 unarmed or fighting skill so its very tough. I'll probably try another though.

I JUST lost an OgHe, level 10, died on dungeon level 10. My skill strat was to turn off everything immediately except to *Fighting and +Invoc. This strat seems to work really well up until dungeon level 6 or 7 where I simply started to miss constantly, was ridiculously hard to hit anyone. I guess because of level 1 unarmed combat? I got carried by an amulet of rage I lucksacked through dungeon 6-9. Problem is that between having to spam greater heal sometimes and berserking, along with a corpse drought when I cleared level 9, things got intense when I was forced to go down to level 10. An ogre was immediately next to the staircase, I was forced equip a giant spiked mace (1st time I equipped a weapon at least lol) to have any hope of surviving. I am literally starving in red letters now so I'm forced to cannabalize him... I eat one piece and proceed to kill at least 5 gnolls without a corpse and am forced to eat another piece.

Was an intense but frustrating couple of minutes, as I've never actually had a char at risk to starve to death.

Anyway, d10 was a huge open level with pools of eels in the middle.. my hero had no chance so I dived to level 11 with 1/2 hp. Met a manticore ontop of the staircase of course..GG :/

cliffs:
-OgHe
-put all exp into *fighting and +invoc
-couldn't hit anything by D7
-carried by amulet of rage and potion spam
-almost starved
-died level 10

Thoughts welcome, I guess maxing fighting first isn't gonna be the way to go Q_Q

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1 character file.

4179 Dexterous Ogre wtf the Fighter (level 10, -6/107 HPs)
             Began as an Ogre Healer on Sept 11, 2011.
             Was a Believer of Elyvilon (penitent).
             Mangled by a manticore (7 damage)
             ... on Level 10 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 01:25:43 (18700 turns).

Dexterous Ogre wtf the Fighter (Ogre Healer)                                                                                                       Turns: 18700, Time: 01:25:43

HP  -6/107       AC  6     Str 20      XL: 10   Next: 38%
MP  22/22        EV 10     Int 13      God: *Elyvilon
Gold 21          SH  0     Dex 10      Spells:  0 memorised, 11 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    x - +0 giant spiked club
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  N - +1 orc robe {MR}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (shield restricted)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (helmet restricted)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    s - +1 cloak {darkness}
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    k - amulet of rage
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    (no ring)
Saprovore : + . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    (no ring)

@: exhausted, slowed, very slow, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, deterioration 1, fast metabolism 1, saprovore 1, tough skin 1, Int +1
a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Invisibility


You were on level 10 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Elyvilon.
Elyvilon was demanding penance.
You were very hungry.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 11 of its levels.

You collected 161 gold pieces.
You spent 240 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 d - the -4,+2 whip "Uveuhem" {elec, rPois}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   
   
   It protects you from poison.
 h - a +3,+4 elven spear of reaching
 x - a +0,+0 giant spiked club (weapon)
Missiles
 e - 27 +0 arrows
 w - 35 poisoned +0 needles
 M - 57 +0 stones (quivered)
 T - 9 +0 darts
Armour
 a - a +1 robe
 s - a +1 cloak of darkness (worn)
 A - a +0 cloak
 K - a +1 robe
 N - a +1 orcish robe of magic resistance (worn)
Magical devices
 c - a wand of digging (8) {unknown}
 n - a wand of flame (0)
 r - a wand of disintegration (0)
 G - a wand of draining (0)
 H - a wand of disintegration (0)
 O - a wand of teleportation (6) {unknown}
 S - a wand of cold (6) {unknown}
Comestibles
 b - a bread ration
 f - 3 chunks of orc flesh
 g - a chunk of gnoll flesh
Scrolls
 m - 3 scrolls of identify
 o - a scroll of random uselessness
 p - 5 scrolls of detect curse
 t - a scroll of magic mapping
 v - a scroll of fog
 y - a scroll of teleportation
 B - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 C - 4 scrolls of recharging {unknown}
 F - a scroll of enchant weapon I
Jewellery
 k - an amulet of rage (around neck)
 Q - an uncursed ring of ice
Potions
 U - a potion of degeneration


   Skills:
 * Level 14 Fighting
 - Level 1 Maces & Flails
 - Level 1 Throwing
 - Level 2 Dodging
 - Level 1 Stealth
 - Level 1 Stabbing
 - Level 1 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 1 Spellcasting
 + Level 9 Invocations
 - Level 1 Evocations


You had 11 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (10/27)            Temple (1/1) D:4         
   Orc: D:6-11        Lair: D:8-13     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Shops:
D:5: +!*+/

Annotations
D:5 Many shops, 2 spellbook shops, potion shop, lantern of shadows
D:8 exclusion: Maurice


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have a fast metabolism.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
You have tough skin (AC +1).
Your mind is acute (Int +1).
Your body is slowly deteriorating.


Message History

The manticore resists with some effort. The manticore flicks its tail! The volley of spikes hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Zapping: G - a wand of draining {zapped: 2}
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - manticore
Aim: A manticore (lightly wounded)
The bolt of negative energy misses the manticore.
The manticore flicks its tail! The volley of spikes hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Zapping: H - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 11}
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - manticore
Aim: A manticore (lightly wounded)
The manticore easily resists. The manticore flicks its tail! The volley of spikes misses you.
You puncture the manticore!
The manticore is moderately wounded.
The manticore barely misses you. The manticore closely misses you. The manticore claws you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The manticore barely misses you. The manticore claws you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The manticore claws you!
You die...

   ##
    ..
#..###.#######
.......H@...<#
#..#.#.#######
     #


You could see a manticore.

Vanquished Creatures
  Pikel (D:6)
  Eustachio (D:5)
  The ghost of Smart Rat the Prestidigitator, an average KoAr (D:4)
  2 sky beasts (D:8)
  A yak (D:9)
  4 orc warriors
  3 ogres
  3 phantoms
  A slave (D:5)
  2 giant goldfish (D:9)
  5 centaurs
  2 giant frogs
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:5)
  Blork the orc (D:5)
  6 imps
  3 hounds
  2 orc priests
  A goliath beetle (D:9)
  A hound zombie (D:8)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:3)
  2 scorpions
  2 iguanas
  4 orc wizards
  2 worker ants
  2 worker ant zombies
  Ijyb (D:5)
  3 jellies
  A mummy (D:8)
  4 snakes
  16 gnolls
  2 white imps (D:7)
  An iguana skeleton (D:4)
  5 worms
  An ufetubus (D:5)
  A bat skeleton (D:8)
  3 giant eyeballs
  3 giant geckos
  An ooze (D:4)
  25 orcs
  6 giant cockroaches
  14 goblins
  16 hobgoblins
  3 quokkas
  22 bats
  5 giant newts
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4)
  12 jackals
  8 kobolds
  3 orc skeletons
  A quokka skeleton (D:6)
  22 rats
  A rat zombie (D:5)
  4 small snakes
  A toadstool (D:5)
240 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A water moccasin zombie (D:8)
  A worker ant (D:6)
  A scorpion (D:6)
  A snake (D:6)
  8 orcs
  A hobgoblin (D:6)
  A small snake (D:6)
  A giant newt (D:6)
  2 kobolds
  2 rats
  4 toadstools
23 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 263 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Dexterous Ogre wtf, the Ogre Healer, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 20/20 MP: 2/2
   313 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 25/28 MP: 4/4
   432 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
  1460 | D:2      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  1566 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Unarmed Combat
  1796 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 36/36 MP: 6/6
  2227 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  2693 | D:3      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  2852 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 45/45 MP: 8/8
  3023 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  3382 | D:3      | Acquired Elyvilon's third power
  3671 | D:3      | Noticed Sigmund
  3760 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3791 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4090 | D:4      | Noticed Smart Rat's ghost (average KoAr)
  4430 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 47/53 MP: 10/10
  4600 | D:3      | Defeated Crazy Yiuf
  4774 | D:4      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  4954 | D:4      | Defeated Smart Rat's ghost
  4954 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
  4954 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  4954 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 63/63 MP: 12/12
  5082 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5094 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
  5094 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  5384 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 34/72 MP: 12/15
  5405 | D:5      | HP: 3/72 [water moccasin skeleton (3)]
  5556 | D:5      | Noticed Ijyb
  5573 | D:5      | Defeated Ijyb
  5819 | D:5      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  5995 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
  6281 | D:5      | Found Pnakkel's Book Boutique.
  6340 | D:5      | Found Ghuv's Distillery.
  6582 | D:5      | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 36 gold pieces
  6582 | D:5      | Bought a potion of might for 30 gold pieces
  6582 | D:5      | Bought 2 potions of heal wounds for 72 gold pieces
  6582 | D:5      | Bought a potion of invisibility for 66 gold pieces
  6582 | D:5      | Bought a potion of berserk rage for 36 gold pieces
  6994 | D:5      | Noticed Eustachio
  7019 | D:5      | Defeated Eustachio
  7019 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
  7019 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 84/84 MP: 17/17
  7166 | D:5      | Found Xoydyu's Magical Wand Boutique.
  7167 | D:5      | Found Uxit's Book Boutique.
  7173 | D:5      | Found Thakism's Assorted Antiques.
  7294 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  7380 | D:5      | Noticed Blork the orc
  7394 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  7404 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  7410 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  7415 | D:5      | Defeated Blork the orc
  7420 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  7424 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  8359 | D:6      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  8443 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  8497 | D:6      | Noticed Pikel
  8539 | D:6      | Defeated Pikel
  8539 | D:6      | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
  8539 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 38/93 MP: 19/19
  9945 | D:6      | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 10079 | D:6      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 12974 | D:6      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 13453 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 14111 | D:8      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 14184 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Stabbing
 14692 | D:8      | Noticed Maurice
 14917 | D:8      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 15077 | D:7      | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute (Int +1).
 15078 | D:7      | Gained mutation: Your body is slowly deteriorating.
 15181 | D:9      | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 15189 | D:9      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 15246 | D:8      | Was placed under penance by Elyvilon
 15279 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 35/106 MP: 22/22
 16046 | D:4      | Got a jewelled whip
 16047 | D:4      | Identified the cursed whip "Uveuhem" {elec, rPois} (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
 16204 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
 16427 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 16427 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
 18173 | D:9      | HP: 5/106 [orc warrior/orcish war axe (22)]
 18174 | D:9      | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 18686 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 18700 | D:10     | HP: 3/107 [manticore (4)]
 18700 | D:10     | HP: 1/107 [manticore (2)]
 18700 | D:10     | Mangled by a manticore



[bobross419]

Quaff potions of Mutation and eat mutagenic chunks and hope for claws mutation would help your unarmed.

Unarmed really needs Unarmed Combat skill and/or claws to do solid damage.