TrNe^Chei


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Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Saturday, 16th September 2017, 21:17

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 02:32

TrNe^Chei

Well, ran out of heal potions and didn't have enough weapon skill. Probably should have equipped my shield, but oh well.

Been running this build, and I like it. On this run a book store on D:6 had Book of the Earth and Necronomicon, so I was planning on doing Statue Form/Necromutation UC.

Tactic was to start the game, and I have enough skill to put Pain and Vampiritic Draining to use. (I should have done Regen, too, but the dual-school slows that down).

Thus, I start out training UC and Dodging to keep myself alive and fighting.

Once those get good, I switch to shields and invocations for defense and abilities.

Once Invocations get's down decently enough (don't need much for Chei) and shields hits around 9 so I can use a medium shield without trouble, get my spell schools up so I can get ahold of Statue Form...and by the default of training earth/transmutation, I get some of the earth conjurations as well for combat use.

Ideally then go back to training UC and fighting (the extra HP makes fighting less necessary, but still). Go back to Transmutation/Necro to get some powerful spells out, depending on if it is worth it to go after Necromutation (not as important as Statue Form, just if I get it then I'll use it kind of thing. Nixing hunger is nice option in food-sparse end-game, though).

Armor would come into play as well once I got a good set of dragon scales, although well-enchanted troll armor can suffice until I find something better.

As always, advice welcome!

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21.1 (webtiles) character file.

10077 Alphaeus the Grappler (level 11, -7/102 HPs)
             Began as a Troll Necromancer on Feb 3, 2018.
             Was an Elder of Cheibriados.
             Mangled by a five-headed hydra (9 damage)
             ... on level 11 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:41:14 (8448 turns).

Alphaeus the Grappler (Troll Necromancer)           Turns: 8448, Time: 00:41:15

Health: -7/102     AC: 12    Str: 35    XL:     11   Next: 31%
Magic:  11/14      EV: 17    Int: 23    God:    Cheibriados [****..]
Gold:   78         SH:  6    Dex: 21    Spells: 8/12 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   w - +3 morningstar
rCold    . . .     Gourm    +   (no shield)
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   T - +0 troll leather armour
rPois    .         Spirit   .   k - +2 hat
rElec    .         Reflect  +   l - +0 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   (gloves unavailable)
MR       .....                  (boots unavailable)
Stlth    ++........             h - +6 amulet of reflection
HPRegen  1.07/turn              u - +3 ring of slaying
MPRegen  0.14/turn              (no ring)

@: mighty, very slightly contaminated, very slow
A: large, unfitting armour, claws 3, thin metallic scales 1, fast metabolism 3,
gourmand, regeneration 1, robust 1, shaggy fur 1, strong 1, tough skin 2, sturdy
frame 1
a: Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Renounce Religion


You were on level 11 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was greatly pleased with you.
You were completely stuffed.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 12 of its levels.
You also visited: Sewer.

You collected 490 gold pieces.
You spent 412 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 w - a +3 morningstar (weapon)
Armour
 a - a +0 robe
 k - a +2 hat (worn)
 l - a +0 cloak (worn)
 z - the +0 robe of Beyond {rElec rC+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 Q - the +2 shield "Nenyn" {Dex+2}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 R - a +0 large shield
 T - a +0 troll leather armour (worn)
Magical Staves
 x - a cursed staff of conjuration
Jewellery
 h - a +6 amulet of reflection (around neck)
 u - a +3 ring of slaying (left claw)
 I - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 S - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration {unknown}
Wands
 D - a wand of flame (82)
 F - a wand of acid (6)
 J - a wand of paralysis (3)
 P - a wand of polymorph (26)
Scrolls
 e - 11 scrolls of teleportation
 g - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 m - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 n - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
 o - 2 scrolls of fog
 r - a scroll of enchant weapon {unknown}
 v - 2 scrolls of identify
 y - a scroll of random uselessness {unknown}
 G - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 K - 2 scrolls of fear
 L - a scroll of torment {unknown}
 N - a scroll of vulnerability {unknown}
Potions
 d - 2 potions of resistance
 i - a potion of lignification {unknown}
 p - 4 potions of brilliance
 q - a potion of magic
 s - a potion of berserk rage {unknown}
 t - a potion of cancellation {unknown}
 A - a potion of degeneration {unknown}
 B - a potion of ambrosia {unknown}
 C - 2 potions of mutation
 E - a potion of might
 O - 2 potions of agility {unknown}
Books
 b - a book of Necromancy   
   
    Spells                           Type                      Level
    a - Pain                         Necromancy                    1
    b - Animate Skeleton             Necromancy                    1
    c - Vampiric Draining            Necromancy                    3
    d - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    e - Animate Dead                 Necromancy                    4
    f - Borgnjor's Vile Clutch       Necromancy/Earth              5
 H - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                           Type                      Level
    a - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    b - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    c - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    d - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
Comestibles
 c - 13 rations


   Skills:
 - Level 1.8 Fighting
 - Level 8.8 Dodging
 - Level 1.0 Stealth
 * Level 4.7 Shields
 - Level 10.9 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 1.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 3.2 Necromancy
 * Level 6.5 Invocations


You had 8 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Pain                  Necr           ###.         3%          1    ##.....
b - Vampiric Draining     Necr           ###.......   11%         3    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (0/6) D:8
    Orc (0/2) D:11       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:6 ([*(:   D:10 ?


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
You are covered in fur. (AC +1)
You have very tough skin. (AC +2)
You are partially covered in thin metallic scales. (AC +2)
You are robust. (+10% HP)
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)
Your movements are slightly less encumbered by armour. (ER -2)


Message History

The five-headed hydra writhes in agony!
You feel very mighty all of a sudden.
The five-headed hydra closely misses you.
You block the five-headed hydra's attack.
The five-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The five-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The five-headed hydra completely misses you.
You bludgeon the five-headed hydra!!
The five-headed hydra is almost dead.
The five-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The five-headed hydra bites you but does no damage.
The five-headed hydra barely misses you.
The five-headed hydra misses you. The five-headed hydra bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The five-headed hydra closely misses you.
The five-headed hydra bites you!
You die...

    #..#    #...#
    #..#  ###...#
    #..#  #.....#
    #..####.....#
    #...........#
    #...........#
    #.........†.##
    #..D.........#
    #.@.(#######.###+##
#####....#.....#.......
#........#.....#..####.
#####.((.#.....#..#
    #....#.....'..#
    #....#######..#
    #.............#
    ########......#
           ########


You could see a five-headed hydra.

Vanquished Creatures
  The ghost of FlobFlarker2 the Agent of Entropy, a novice DsAK of Lugonu (D:8)
  A cyclops (D:11)
  Joseph (D:7)
  Maurice (D:8)
  The ghost of aciddrop the Shooter, a novice DgWn (D:5)
  A gargoyle (D:10)
  A centaur skeleton (D:10)
  A troll (D:11)
  2 hippogriffs
  A wraith (D:11)
  12 yaks
  Eustachio (D:5)
  A hungry ghost (D:8)
  A water moccasin (D:7)
  Duvessa (D:7)
  2 ice beasts
  4 phantoms
  4 sky beasts
  A black bear (D:9)
  2 orc warriors
  The ghost of Alphaeus the Grave Robber, an amateur TrNe (D:3)
  5 ogres
  5 centaurs
  7 bullfrogs
  Dowan (D:7)
  2 scorpions
  16 killer bees
  3 howler monkeys
  2 bullfrog zombies
  A crimson imp (D:8)
  A centaur zombie (D:6)
  2 hounds
  A jelly (D:10)
  A gnoll shaman (D:7)
  3 orc priests
  Crazy Yiuf (D:5)
  3 bullfrog skeletons
  5 orc wizards
  5 worker ants
  4 iguanas
  A hound zombie (D:8)
  6 gnolls
  9 adders
  4 river rats (Sewer)
  A shadow imp (D:8)
  3 oozes
  2 adder skeletons
  An adder zombie (D:2)
  3 worms
  5 dart slugs
  7 leopard geckos
  28 orcs
  17 ball pythons
  2 bat skeletons (D:2)
  10 giant cockroaches
  4 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  3 quokkas
  11 bats
  9 frilled lizards
  8 goblins
  7 kobolds
  A leopard gecko zombie (D:7)
  36 rats
298 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Alphaeus the Troll Necromancer began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
    27 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 16/24 MP: 2/2
   162 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Unarmed Combat
   540 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 31/31 MP: 3/3
   880 | D:2      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
   890 | D:2      | Reached skill level 2 in Unarmed Combat
  1070 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 28/39 MP: 4/4
  1275 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Unarmed Combat
  1287 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/45 MP: 5/5
  1651 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  1677 | D:3      | Noticed Alphaeus's ghost (amateur TrNe)
  1694 | D:3      | Killed Alphaeus's ghost
  1694 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  1781 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 49/53 MP: 6/6
  2022 | D:3      | Found a glowing drain.
  2026 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  2277 | Sewer    | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  2585 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 56/61 MP: 7/7
  2665 | D:4      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
  2753 | D:4      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  2753 | D:4      | Noticed an Executioner
  2757 | D:4      | Noticed a ynoxinul
  2757 | D:4      | Noticed a neqoxec
  2837 | D:4      | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
  2935 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  2957 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  2994 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Cheibriados the Contemplative
  3133 | D:4      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  3134 | D:4      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  3155 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3171 | D:5      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  3192 | D:5      | Noticed aciddrop's ghost (novice DgWn)
  3211 | D:5      | Killed aciddrop's ghost
  3211 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  3211 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  3211 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 40/68 MP: 8/8
  3271 | D:5      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  3360 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  3404 | D:5      | Noticed Eustachio
  3434 | D:5      | Killed Eustachio
  3434 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  3462 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  3506 | D:5      | Reached * piety under Cheibriados
  3816 | D:5      | Learned a level 3 spell: Vampiric Draining
  3885 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  3939 | D:5      | Found a runed door.
  4049 | D:5      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  4052 | D:5      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  4121 | D:6      | Found Zutug's Antique Armour Shoppe.
  4134 | D:6      | Bought a warped robe for 165 gold pieces
  4144 | D:6      | Identified the cursed +0 robe of Beyond {rElec rC+} (You bought it in a shop on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4228 | D:6      | Found Xateu's Antique Weapon Shop.
  4241 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 72/76 MP: 9/9
  4242 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  4362 | D:6      | Reached ** piety under Cheibriados
  4374 | D:6      | Found Issuwyck's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  4404 | D:6      | Found Aroin's Assorted Antiques.
  4592 | D:6      | Found Ronn's Book Shop.
  4934 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  4934 | D:7      | Noticed Dowan
  4949 | D:7      | Killed Duvessa
  4955 | D:7      | Killed Dowan
  4955 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  5086 | D:7      | Reached *** piety under Cheibriados
  5560 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  5607 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
  5619 | D:7      | Killed Joseph
  5619 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 52/87 MP: 10/10
  5858 | D:8      | Noticed FlobFlarker2's ghost (novice DsAK)
  5860 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You are robust. (+10% HP) [potion of mutation]
  5860 | D:8      | Gained mutation: Your movements are slightly less encumbered by armour. (ER -2) [potion of mutation]
  5860 | D:8      | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation]
  5860 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in thin metallic scales. (AC +2) [potion of mutation]
  5868 | D:8      | Killed FlobFlarker2's ghost
  5970 | D:8      | Noticed Maurice
  6041 | D:8      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  6059 | D:8      | Reached **** piety under Cheibriados
  6084 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  6323 | D:8      | Killed Maurice
  6462 | D:8      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  6462 | D:8      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  6462 | D:8      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  6956 | D:9      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  7285 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  7311 | D:10     | Found Jixenlee's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
  7381 | D:10     | Noticed a gargoyle
  7388 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  7394 | D:10     | Killed a gargoyle
  7538 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
  7548 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 90/102 MP: 13/13
  7564 | D:10     | Found Kixulas's Weapon Emporium.
  7972 | D:6      | Bought a dazzling shield for 247 gold pieces
  7972 | D:6      | Identified the +2 shield "Nenyn" {Dex+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  8274 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  8321 | D:11     | Reached ***** piety under Cheibriados
  8425 | D:11     | Noticed a five-headed hydra
  8448 | D:11     | HP: 2/102 [five-headed hydra (6)]
  8448 | D:11     | Mangled by a five-headed hydra

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 |
---------------+----------------------------------+-----
Dodging        |  2        3     4  5  6  7  8    |  8.8
Unarmed Combat |     1  2  3  4  5  6  8 10       | 10.9
Fighting       |                       1          |  1.8
Invocations    |                          1  5  6 |  6.5
Shields        |                             3  4 |  4.7
Stealth        |                                  |  1.0
Spellcasting   |                                  |  1.2
Necromancy     |                                  |  3.2

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   145 |   245 |   280 |   201 ||   871
       Punch             |     1 |     3 |     6 |    18 ||    28
       Morningstar       |       |       |       |     3 ||     3
 Cast: Pain              |       |       |    12 |     7 ||    19
       Vampiric Draining |       |       |     3 |     7 ||    10
Invok: Slouch            |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |       |     9 |     1 |     7 ||    17
       Potion            |       |     6 |     2 |    12 ||    20
 Stab: Sleeping          |     4 |     2 |     4 |     1 ||    11
       Distracted        |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |    15 |    15 |    19 |    25 ||    74
Armor: Robe              |    68 |   125 |    79 |    44 ||   316
       Troll leather arm |       |       |       |    12 ||    12
Dodge: Dodged            |   110 |   180 |   167 |   161 ||   618
Block: Other             |       |    78 |    83 |    56 ||   217
       Reflection        |       |       |     2 |     5 ||     7

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 10:56

Re: TrNe^Chei

Don't forget to use scrolls of idenify. Potion of lignification might save you vs one hydra
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1193

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 19:15

Re: TrNe^Chei

Use Animate Skeleton on every corpse.

For this message the author Airwolf has received thanks:
nago

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Saturday, 16th September 2017, 21:17

Post Saturday, 3rd February 2018, 23:02

Re: TrNe^Chei

Airwolf wrote:Use Animate Skeleton on every corpse.


Really? I mean, I know it just spams allies, but wouldn't that MP (in quite the short supply for a Troll) be better spend on Regen/VampDrain?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 4th February 2018, 02:09

Re: TrNe^Chei

Alphaeus wrote:
Airwolf wrote:Use Animate Skeleton on every corpse.


Really? I mean, I know it just spams allies, but wouldn't that MP (in quite the short supply for a Troll) be better spend on Regen/VampDrain?

Skeletons outlast the time it takes to regen the MP they cost. Just wait until you regen enough MP and then have Regen/VampDrail *and* a skeleton
Spoiler: show
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For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks:
nago

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 44

Joined: Tuesday, 31st October 2017, 08:40

Post Sunday, 4th February 2018, 12:58

Re: TrNe^Chei

Ok, I find your approach to playing Troll (including Troll^Chei or even specifically TrNe^Chei) rather questionable, so I'm gonna comment/critique on this. I'll cover the flaws I see in order of appearance in your post.

As you've probably figured out yourself, fighting a hydra with an untrained morningstar, even if mighted, is a bad idea. As a Troll you need to start figuring what's you way of dealing with hydras earlier than as other species, since your most natural and potent weapon - claws - would inevitably fall out. Things you 're not too bad at as a Troll are:
1. Evocations - almost counts as "too bad" plus a very unreliable one. -3 aptitude doesn't help
2. Invocations - Ely, Fedhas, Jiyva, Lucy, Makhleb, Nemelex, Qazlal, Trog, Yred and Hep(kinda) all provide good hydras-dealing abilities at **** or earlier without much Invo needed. Cheibriados gives you Slouch, but it has a terrible piety cost (if you're somewhere at **** you're extremely likely to drop down to *** and lose access to Slouch in 2 uses!)
3. Walking away from them - somewhat tedious , may require you to skip some areas (likely L:6). Overall fine in Lair, but works worse against occasional Dungeon hydras
4. Earth magic - Sandblast and Lee's even at moderate spell power should get job done, both spells are single Earth scholl and -1 aptitude is actually pretty good
5. Building a M&F troll entirely - good, just don't try to mix M&F and UC (well AT LEAST until much-much later)
6. My favourite - THROWING. You're very likely to get some large rocks off Cyclops (may require diving to ~D:12 before Lair, but it's OK), and even if you somehow don't get any, javelins and tomahawks are good enough
Some combination of Vampiric draining and skeletons can technically work, but you need really good spellpower, which would come at a cost of sacrificing Fighting/Dodging/UC/Invo. I would stronly recommend one of the options 2-6 listed above instead.

Now this one really bothers me: first you say you were planning on doing a Necromutation UC, and then you add "Nixing hunger is a nice option in food-sparse end-game", which (I apologise) sounds like a bad joke. First, lich-form is UC base damage 5 and naturally you have UC base damage 9, so you'd be directly hampering yourself by doing this. Next, what hunger costs as a Troll you even expect to have? I bet your biggest hunger cost would be casting Necromutation itself. But most importantly, WHAT FOR would you want to invest into Necromutation? Necromutation is only good to not get mutated and to not get tormented (at the cost of confusion turning into paralysis and not casting Death's Door and Borngor's which are the better Necro spells). In a 3-5 rune game its only uses are to not get mutated in Slime or by OOF, and the former is incredibly risky cause Golden Eyes, so it's literally worthless. OK, let's assume you insist on going 15 runes, but then again, do you really need a lvl8 spell with -2 and -3 aptitudes in the corresponding skills? If you're deeply scared by Torment, you have Statue form for that, although much better anti-torment and anti-malmutate tools are managing LOS and Large Rocks+PProj.

Next. The real power of Necro background is Animate Skeleton/Dead, and I'm confused by you saying "wouldn't that MP ... be better spend on Regen/VampDrain?" Regen is good before the fight, VampDrain is good during the fight, but the moment you're casting (thus, spending MP on) animate skeleton is AFTER the fight, so there's no reason to worry about that. Skeletons have really long duration, so you can simply rest to full mana after the fight, raise all your friends (only 1 MP each or 4 MP everyone later), rest to full mana again and continue exploring. Another important note is that both Regen and VampDrain are quite power-dependent, while for animate you only need to get failure rate down (and even that doesn't matter, because if it fails you just cast it again).

Regarding this particular char dump, it's mostly covered by the paragraph about not having Hydra solutions. The only other thing to note is unused Id/enchant armour scrolls in your inventory. Lignification+agility combo would certainly be enough to take down a 5-headed Hydra if those were identified (Lig alone is scary due to suddenly having 2 EV). Hoarding EA is really unacceptable a troll, since every point of AC is very valuable. I'd at least immediately enchant up the cloak. Good luck in future games!

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Post Sunday, 4th February 2018, 13:48

Re: TrNe^Chei

I'd add that I while is understandable that a TrNe^Chei has to spread skill training much more than a normal Tr, and that dodging is good with chei, having fighting at 1.8 at that deep with a Tr while having many other skills at higher level is still very bad thing.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Sunday, 4th February 2018, 15:26

Re: TrNe^Chei

As Stairdancer said throwing large rock or other stuff is good way to deal with hydras. If you fail to kill it before it get next to you, then use Bend Time to slow it and Temporal Distortion to reposition it.
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Post Sunday, 4th February 2018, 15:46

Re: TrNe^Chei

Stairdancer gave good+detailed advice.

In my sig you can find links to 24 diff TrXY with 15 runes.
You can use it to see what kind of xp is when in the game for a troll (most of them have (late) spells) of Oka (+5 heroism).

My advice: win 3 consecutive Trolls of oka.
You'll still run into problems with mr/sinv/relec/rpois/shield/armour but it is easier than chei.
Do 15 runes with them and *then* go back to chei/early spells/necromut on a troll.

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Post Monday, 5th February 2018, 21:29

Re: TrNe^Chei

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 072945.txt

There's your actual TrNe of Chei; 15 runes. For some other similar but note quite TrNe builds:

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 060713.txt (TrEE)
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Tason ... 231010.txt (TrHu) (still cast significant spells, aka statue form)

Getting back to the TrNe run, don't get too caught up on the background. Using the starting spellbook is wonderful, it's a very powerful spellbook, but you're still a troll and you should still be training fighting/dodging/unarmed. I went pretty much purely a fighter at first and trained up necromancy a bit later on, although it's very possible to do more of a hybrid or even rely on skeletons/pain for the first few floors if you want to. I'd recommend getting a few levels of unarmed pretty quickly, though.

Note I cast animate skeleton 21 times in the early game - this is actually high for me, but that's just because I don't like bothering with allies. From a power level perspective, you should be casting animate skeleton a lot. That being said, trolls are pretty powerful so you can get away with not doing it, if you don't want to bother.

Early on a troll leather armor is probably the best thing to wear, unless you magically stumble across a good set of dragon scales. Statue form is eventually better than just about any other armor/transmutation, but you can wear good dragon armor + necromutation if you really want to. I did in this game, although I generally don't.

Overall I'd say that training for necromutation and controlled blink left my defenses a bit lower than they should have been, but I mean when you're a troll with controlled blink it's not too terrible to deal with the "low" defenses of 43ac, 27ev, 33sh.

As stated for hydras, large rocks are your best weapon. Slouch will also deal decent damage and as a bonus never misses, but it of course costs piety and you want to do most of the damage with rocks. Slouch is good if they're already "in the red" but are right next to you and you can't risk taking a turn's worth of hydra attacks. Use rocks while you still have the time to use rocks. On getting rocks: Diving to d:12 or so is a good bet, if you want to start with some, pick TrHu.

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