CIP: ToFi^Makhleb

Monday, 18th December 2017, 15:46 by Zhorgal

Hey guys, I have several questions:

Is it worth going for statue form? If so how much investment would I need?
Should I stick to the shield or train for a large one? Should I immediately change to the large shield?
Any advice as far as eq or training?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21-a0-538-gd16b88a (tiles) character file. Loggatuz the Grappler (Troll Fighter) Turns: 22226, Time: 02:07:25 Health: 156/156 AC: 13 Str: 33 XL: 15 Next: 63% Magic: 19/19 EV: 13 Int: 4 God: Makhleb [******] Gold: 503 SH: 12 Dex: 9 Spells: 4/14 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . - Unarmed rCold . . . Gourm + b - +0 shield rNeg . . . Faith . I - +3 troll leather armour rPois . Spirit + (helmet restricted) rElec . Reflect . p - +2 cloak {+Inv} rCorr . Harm . (gloves unavailable) MR +++.. (boots unavailable) Stlth +......... q - amulet of guardian spirit HPRegen 1.16/turn l - ring of protection from magic MPRegen 0.16/turn F - ring of protection from magic @: no status effects A: large, unfitting armour, claws 3, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 1, shaggy fur 1, tough skin 2 a: Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility You are on level 14 of the Dungeon. You worship Makhleb. Makhleb is exalted by your worship. You are very full. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 23 of its levels. You have also visited: Volcano. You have collected 2309 gold pieces. You have spent 1806 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Missiles Q - 8 large rocks (quivered) Armour b - a +0 shield (worn) p - a +2 cloak of invisibility (worn) y - a large shield C - +0 steam dragon scales H - a +2 robe of magic resistance I - a +3 troll leather armour (worn) Jewellery k - an uncursed ring of see invisible l - a ring of protection from magic (left claw) q - an amulet of guardian spirit (around neck) E - an uncursed ring of magical power F - a ring of protection from magic (right claw) K - an uncursed ring of wizardry N - an uncursed ring of protection from cold P - an uncursed ring of wizardry R - the ring of Luanim {rC+ Int+3} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) [ring of protection from cold] It affects your intelligence (+3). It protects you from cold. S - an uncursed ring of fire T - an uncursed amulet of regeneration Wands o - a wand of iceblast (25) u - a wand of polymorph (38) x - a wand of disintegration (18) z - a wand of paralysis (46) J - a wand of enslavement (25) M - a wand of acid (13) Y - a wand of clouds (3) Scrolls e - 14 scrolls of teleportation h - 7 scrolls of remove curse i - a scroll of fear m - 2 scrolls of magic mapping r - 6 scrolls of enchant armour s - 2 scrolls of immolation w - 3 scrolls of identify L - 3 scrolls of summoning O - 3 scrolls of fog Z - 2 scrolls of blinking Potions a - 3 potions of agility c - 7 potions of might f - 2 potions of berserk rage j - 7 potions of curing t - 3 potions of lignification v - 6 potions of haste B - 3 potions of mutation D - 2 potions of magic V - 2 potions of invisibility W - 3 potions of heal wounds X - 2 potions of cancellation Miscellaneous g - a phial of floods G - a fan of gales U - a lightning rod (4/4) Comestibles d - 19 bread rations n - 7 meat rations A - 3 royal jellies Skills: + Level 12,0 Fighting + Level 4,2 Armour - Level 9,0 Dodging + Level 9,0 Shields + Level 13,7 Unarmed Combat - Level 3,5 Transmutations - Level 6,0 Earth Magic - Level 7,0 Invocations - Level 7,0 Evocations You have 4 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Blink Tloc N/A 67% 2 ###.... b - Sticks to Snakes Tmut #....... 22% 2 ###.... c - Statue Form Tmut/Erth #........ 100% 6 ####### Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (14/15) Temple (1/1) D:5 Lair (6/6) D:11 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3 Snake (0/4) Lair:3 Slime (0/5) Lair:6 Orc (2/2) D:12 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Vaults (0/5) D:13 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Fedhas Makhleb Okawaru Trog Vehumet Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Shops: D:7 [ Orc:2 =}(? Annotations: D:11 exclusion: 4 doors Lair:6 exclusion: 3 oklob plants Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are too large for most types of armour. You have claws for hands. Your metabolism is lightning-fast. You like to eat raw meat. Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast. You are covered in fur. (AC +1) You have very tough skin. (AC +2) Message History The yak is lightly wounded. You block the yak's attack. You claw the yak! The yak is heavily wounded. You claw the yak! The yak is severely wounded. You block the yak's attack. You claw the yak! You kill the yak! Makhleb accepts your kill. You feel better. No target in view! Magic restored. There is an open door here. Found a large shield. You see here a large shield. Okay, then. Drop what? 52/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a +1 robe of fire resistance. y - a large shield .........#.....#.....# .........#.....#.....# .........#.....#.....# ........)##'####.....# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..........###### ˜˜˜˜˜˜..............# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..........#...# †˜˜˜˜˜..........#...# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..........#...# .˜˜˜˜˜#####'##'##...# .˜˜˜˜˜..............# .˜˜˜˜˜.............@# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..............# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..............# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..............# ˜˜˜˜˜˜..............# ˜˜˜˜˜˜).............# ......##....####....# ............# #....# ............# .........#### .........# There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures A sphinx (D:14) A red draconian (Volcano) Josephine (Lair:6) 3 ogre magi 2 vault guards (D:13) Erica (D:8) 2 centaur warriors (D:13) 17 two-headed ogres A deep troll earth mage (D:14) 2 tengu warriors 2 deep trolls An unseen horror (D:14) Pikel (D:9) 2 necromancers (D:13) 3 orc knights 3 cyclopes 4 manticores An orc sorcerer (Orc:2) 11 ugly things A deep elf mage (D:13) 6 black mambas 13 elephants 2 molten gargoyles (Volcano) 5 gargoyles 10 spiny frogs 4 kobold demonologists A yaktaur (D:13) A rime drake (Lair:3) 3 komodo dragons A merfolk (D:9) 3 meliai (D:14) 12 trolls 7 polar bears A wolf spider simulacrum (D:13) 7 hornets 4 blink frogs Grinder (D:4) Prince Ribbit (D:6) A slime creature (Lair:1) 20 dream sheep (Lair:6) 5 hippogriffs A shadow (D:12) 5 wraiths 41 yaks 14 spriggans (Lair:6) 3 hungry ghosts 4 wyverns 19 humans (D:13) A steam dragon (D:12) Grum (D:9) 2 basilisks A fire bat (Volcano) 8 vampire mosquitoes 3 nagas (Lair:3) 2 wargs A soldier ant (D:13) Duvessa (D:6) 11 porcupines 8 water moccasins 15 orc warriors 5 ice beasts 5 phantoms 2 sky beasts 2 necrophages (D:8) 3 hornet zombies 3 black bears 2 eyes of draining 13 centaurs 26 ogres 3 boggarts (Lair:6) 22 wolves 12 crocodiles 4 big kobolds 21 bullfrogs 2 wyvern zombies 9 scorpions 3 wyvern skeletons Dowan (D:6) 13 killer bees 5 wights (D:10) A vampire bat (Lair:2) 2 howler monkeys (D:5) 3 centaur zombies 8 crimson imps A quasit (D:12) 3 lava snakes (Volcano) A bullfrog zombie (D:7) 4 hounds 23 orc priests Crazy Yiuf (D:2) A gnoll shaman (D:9) 16 jellies 4 bullfrog skeletons 6 centaur skeletons 2 iguanas Natasha (D:3) 24 orc wizards 17 worker ants 6 hell rats (Lair:4) 2 hound zombies 3 hound skeletons A howler monkey skeleton (D:8) 9 adders 7 gnolls (D:9) 7 shadow imps 13 oozes An adder zombie (D:7) 3 adder skeletons 3 worms 5 dart slugs 4 leopard geckos 87 orcs 6 giant cockroaches 13 goblins 3 hobgoblins 16 jackals 11 quokkas 15 bats 5 frilled lizards 2 jackal skeletons 22 kobolds 7 rats 834 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) 4 hydras A human (D:13) A porcupine (D:11) A bullfrog (D:11) 4 wights (D:11) 11 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) 16 fungi 8 plants 24 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 869 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------+----------+------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Loggatuz the Troll Fighter began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 22/22 MP: 0/0 252 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 29/29 MP: 1/1 820 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 36/36 MP: 2/2 970 | D:2 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 1032 | D:2 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 1324 | D:2 | Found a runed door. 1328 | D:2 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 1334 | D:2 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 1334 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 41/45 MP: 3/3 1729 | D:3 | Reached skill level 3 in Unarmed Combat 1766 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 50/53 MP: 4/4 1999 | D:3 | Noticed Natasha 2003 | D:3 | Killed Natasha 2006 | D:3 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 2309 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 60/61 MP: 5/5 2470 | D:4 | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos. 2517 | D:4 | Noticed Grinder 2520 | D:4 | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns 2543 | D:4 | Killed Grinder 2543 | D:4 | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat 2543 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 38/68 MP: 6/6 2871 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3227 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 3227 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 79/79 MP: 7/7 3289 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 3298 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 3341 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Makhleb the Destroyer 3759 | D:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations 3899 | D:6 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 3940 | D:6 | Noticed Prince Ribbit 3993 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 4365 | D:6 | Noticed Dowan 4366 | D:6 | Noticed Duvessa 4376 | D:6 | Killed Dowan 4385 | D:6 | Killed Duvessa 4385 | D:6 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 4511 | D:6 | Killed Prince Ribbit 4869 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 78/89 MP: 10/10 4885 | D:7 | Reached * piety under Makhleb 5177 | D:7 | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat 5406 | D:7 | Reached ** piety under Makhleb 5511 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations 5750 | D:7 | Found Huklus's Antique Armour Emporium. 5758 | D:7 | Bought a shiny troll leather armour for 576 gold pieces 5972 | D:7 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 5977 | D:7 | Killed a two-headed ogre 5977 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 5977 | D:7 | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat 5977 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 102/102 MP: 13/13 6002 | D:7 | Noticed a manticore 6008 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 6018 | D:7 | Killed a manticore 6057 | D:7 | Got a smoking platinum ring 6062 | D:7 | Identified the ring of Luanim {rC+ Int+3} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) 6387 | D:8 | Noticed Erica 6401 | D:8 | Killed Erica 6692 | D:8 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 6696 | D:8 | Killed a two-headed ogre 6696 | D:8 | Reached *** piety under Makhleb 6696 | D:8 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations 7132 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 7363 | D:9 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 7460 | D:9 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 108/111 MP: 11/14 7540 | D:9 | Reached **** piety under Makhleb 7635 | D:9 | Noticed Grum 7653 | D:9 | Killed Grum 7905 | D:9 | Noticed Pikel 7923 | D:9 | Killed Pikel 8206 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 8206 | D:10 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 8216 | D:10 | Killed a two-headed ogre 8329 | D:10 | Paralysed by a hornet for 3 turns 8746 | D:10 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 8927 | D:10 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 8939 | D:10 | Killed a two-headed ogre 9039 | D:10 | Reached ***** piety under Makhleb 9202 | D:11 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 9208 | D:11 | Killed a four-headed hydra 9243 | D:11 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 9253 | D:11 | Killed a two-headed ogre 9253 | D:11 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 101/122 MP: 10/15 9595 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 9867 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 10637 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 11143 | Lair:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 11146 | Lair:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes 11167 | Lair:2 | Learned a level 6 spell: Statue Form 11178 | Lair:2 | You fall through a shaft! 11226 | Lair:3 | Reached ****** piety under Makhleb 11226 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat 11259 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 11327 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 11383 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic 12506 | Lair:4 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 120/132 MP: 17/17 13039 | Lair:5 | Found a dark tunnel. 13044 | Volcano | Entered a volcano 13240 | Volcano | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 13421 | Volcano | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 13520 | Volcano | Noticed a red draconian 13530 | Volcano | Killed a red draconian 14370 | Lair:6 | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts 14608 | Lair:6 | Noticed Josephine 14637 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat 14645 | Lair:6 | Killed Josephine 15005 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic 15172 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 142/144 MP: 18/18 16029 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 16354 | D:12 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 17328 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 17488 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Transmutations 17678 | Orc:1 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 17916 | Orc:2 | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines 17938 | Orc:2 | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 2 turns 18034 | Orc:2 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 18218 | Orc:2 | Found Unolasin's Magic Scroll Emporium. 18239 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 18630 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 18709 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat 18883 | Orc:2 | Found Laas's Gadget Boutique. 18883 | Orc:2 | Found Natteuza's Weapon Shop. 18884 | Orc:2 | Found Siasuz's Jewellery Shop. 18942 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of magic mapping for 52 gold pieces 18942 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces 18942 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces 18942 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces 18942 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces 18942 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of fog for 30 gold pieces 19523 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 19838 | D:13 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 116/154 MP: 19/19 20282 | D:13 | Found a gate to the Vaults. 20997 | Orc:2 | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 150 gold pieces 20997 | Orc:2 | Bought an uncursed ring of wizardry for 300 gold pieces 20997 | Orc:2 | Bought an uncursed ring of protection from magic for 250 gold pieces 21509 | D:14 | Noticed a sphinx 21675 | D:14 | Found a runed door. 21864 | D:14 | Killed a sphinx Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | ---------------+----------------------------------------------+----- Fighting | 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 | 12,0 Shields | 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 | 9,0 Dodging | 3 4 5 6 7 9 | 9,0 Unarmed Combat | 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 | 13,7 Invocations | 3 5 6 7 | 7,0 Evocations | 2 4 5 6 7 | 7,0 Earth Magic | 2 5 6 | 6,0 Transmutations | 2 3 | 3,5 Armour | 2 4 | 4,2 Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 128 | 165 | 353 | 783 | 1376 || 2805 Invok: Minor Destruction | | | 21 | 107 | 155 || 283 Lesser Servant of | | | | 4 | 5 || 9 Evoke: Wand | | | | | 1 || 1 Use: Scroll | | | 7 | 14 | 11 || 32 Stab: Sleeping | | | 1 | | || 1 Distracted | | | | | 1 || 1 Eat: Chunk | 18 | 11 | 32 | 74 | 86 || 221 Fruit | | | | | 3 || 3 Armor: Robe | 48 | 44 | 75 | | 5 || 172 Troll leather arm | | | 12 | 175 | 285 || 472 Dodge: Dodged | 40 | 51 | 90 | 189 | 517 || 887 Block: Shield | 71 | 62 | 136 | 299 | 691 || 1259 Table legend: A = Spawn XP B = Non-spawn XP C = Spawn XP percentage of total XP D = Spawn monster count E = Non-spawn monster count F = Spawn count percentage of total count G = Total turns spent on level A B C D E F G +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+--------- Total | 0 | 134975 | 0,0 | 0 | 845 | 0,0 | 22226 +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+--------- D:1 | 0 | 25 | 0,0 | 0 | 13 | 0,0 | 702 D:2 | 0 | 117 | 0,0 | 0 | 40 | 0,0 | 970 D:3 | 0 | 221 | 0,0 | 0 | 31 | 0,0 | 623 D:4 | 0 | 555 | 0,0 | 0 | 20 | 0,0 | 579 D:5 | 0 | 788 | 0,0 | 0 | 16 | 0,0 | 1016 D:6 | 0 | 1014 | 0,0 | 0 | 17 | 0,0 | 889 D:7 | 0 | 4190 | 0,0 | 0 | 56 | 0,0 | 1473 D:8 | 0 | 3101 | 0,0 | 0 | 27 | 0,0 | 886 D:9 | 0 | 4016 | 0,0 | 0 | 42 | 0,0 | 989 D:10 | 0 | 5659 | 0,0 | 0 | 34 | 0,0 | 897 D:11 | 0 | 5215 | 0,0 | 0 | 54 | 0,0 | 824 D:12 | 0 | 4089 | 0,0 | 0 | 43 | 0,0 | 1268 D:13 | 0 | 15133 | 0,0 | 0 | 58 | 0,0 | 1157 D:14 | 0 | 18613 | 0,0 | 0 | 52 | 0,0 | 1158 Lair:1 | 0 | 3562 | 0,0 | 0 | 33 | 0,0 | 779 Lair:2 | 0 | 2363 | 0,0 | 0 | 22 | 0,0 | 616 Lair:3 | 0 | 5493 | 0,0 | 0 | 23 | 0,0 | 1068 Lair:4 | 0 | 3106 | 0,0 | 0 | 20 | 0,0 | 711 Lair:5 | 0 | 6988 | 0,0 | 0 | 23 | 0,0 | 872 Lair:6 | 0 | 22606 | 0,0 | 0 | 94 | 0,0 | 1706 Orc:1 | 0 | 12125 | 0,0 | 0 | 63 | 0,0 | 1072 Orc:2 | 0 | 8945 | 0,0 | 0 | 52 | 0,0 | 1330 Volcano | 0 | 7051 | 0,0 | 0 | 12 | 0,0 | 562 +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------

Monday, 18th December 2017, 16:17 by bel

Statue form will take huge investment. Your int is super-low anyway. Though you do have two rings of wiz...

I would forget spells, train for a large shield, look for some heavier dragon armour. D15 and the entrance to depths sometimes has dragons placed.

Since you're not casting any spells, you can wear the large shield right away.

Monday, 18th December 2017, 16:22 by Zhorgal

Yeah. I should probably be improving int since the beginning in the off chance of wanting to use spells.
Edit: Should I start using the large shield right now or wait till lvl 15 in shields?

Monday, 18th December 2017, 16:45 by Magipi

Zhorgal wrote:Yeah. I should probably be improving int since the beginning in the off chance of wanting to use spells.

Or Dex. Pushing Str does not make a lot of sense.

Also, training for statue form, then stopping does not make much sense either.

Also, the correct abbreviation is not ToFi, but ToFu.

Spoiler: show

Monday, 18th December 2017, 17:15 by Zhorgal

Magipi wrote:
Zhorgal wrote:Yeah. I should probably be improving int since the beginning in the off chance of wanting to use spells.

Or Dex. Pushing Str does not make a lot of sense.

A while ago (one year or so) I was under the impression that the best thing for something like a TrFi (or MiFi) for that matter, was to increase Str.
Did that change?

FYI: My guy died. I had Shoals and Snake and no rpois and so I decided to go to Elf to try to find rpois. Not much luck because one or two big elf spellcasters (the ones found in Elf:3) appeared on Elf:1.
It was a bad call, in hindsight I should have tried snake. Actually, I went to Elf thinking that it was a bad call. But I was unsure what would be better. Shoals, snake without rpois or Elf.

Magipi wrote:Also, training for statue form, then stopping does not make much sense either.

Yes it was. I was just trying things out.

Monday, 18th December 2017, 17:22 by crawlnoob

Str is awesome, I have no idea why he told you not to push it.

Monday, 18th December 2017, 17:36 by Magipi

crawlnoob wrote:Str is awesome, I have no idea why he told you not to push it.

Because a troll's Str will be so high anyway that it will give diminishing returns. Those points do more at Dex or (if you cast spells) Int.

Monday, 18th December 2017, 17:46 by Zhorgal

Given that I want to try a Troll win, what would be more advisable? Try TrFi again and push Dex? Try a more rounded up Troll and start a TrWz instead só it starts with a much higher int? Go for a TrEE hoping for statue form or somesuch?

Monday, 18th December 2017, 18:00 by Stonar

Code:: 582 games for * (tr recent won): 160x Monk, 92x Fighter, 49x Hunter, 33x Chaos Knight, 32x Berserker, 21x Wanderer, 20x Arcane Marksman, 19x Warper, 17x Venom Mage, 14x Air Elementalist, 14x Wizard, 13x Earth Elementalist, 13x Transmuter, 11x Necromancer, 11x Assassin, 11x Gladiator, 9x Summoner, 8x Skald, 8x Conjurer, 7x Artificer, 7x Ice Elementalist, 6x Enchanter, 4x Fire Elementalist, 3x Abyssal Knight 582 games for * (tr recent won): 156x Okawaru, 76x Cheibriados, 43x Jiyva, 43x Ru, 40x Trog, 28x Xom, 27x The Shining One, 24x Yredelemnul, 24x Qazlal, 16x Wu Jian, 16x Hepliaklqana, 15x Ashenzari, 14x Makhleb, 11x Uskayaw, 10x Nemelex Xobeh, 8x Zin, 8x Elyvilon, 7x Dithmenos, 5x Fedhas, 3x Lugonu, 3x Vehumet, 2x Gozag, 2x Kikubaaqudgha,

When I want to know what works well, I usually ask one of the bots. Looks like most people do Monk, Fighter, or Hunter, and most people worship Oka or Chei. Troll casters are rough - trolls excel at killing stuff with their claws, and they can throw large rocks. Some combination of Hunter and Oka will mean that you'll have large rocks to throw at stuff, and between that and your claws, you'll kill stuff fine. Trolls are really bad at spellcasting, and spending all that xp on learning spells will mean much less xp going into your defenses (and offenses, but that's probably not where you're worried). Looking at your dump from before, you were doing fine, but going into Elf before even dipping into a lair branch is probably a mistake, you're right - I usually don't go into Elf until after I've cleared both lair branches to 3, and usually until I've cleared depths to 4.

EDIT: (Oh, I never actually answered your question. I would probably do Monk or Fighter or Hunter. At the end of the day, picking dex or strength isn't really that important, IMO. More damage or more defenses. You'll have "enough" strength, which probably makes it worth concentrating on dex, but I honestly don't know (though I don't think it makes much difference.)

Monday, 18th December 2017, 18:10 by Zhorgal

Speaking of gods, Oka or Chei. Oka is fine ofc. Actually, his gifts will probably not help much weaponwise but he does gift large rocks. I fear Chei because of the slow effect and like Makhleb because minor destruction works pretty well as ranged attacks go and minor servants are also easily online against hydras and such.

Monday, 18th December 2017, 18:19 by Stonar

Oka is much easier than Chei. Chei's slow can be really deadly if you're not careful. Oka will always give you something useless, even if you're not unarmed. Heroism and Finesse are incredible, and sometimes he'll give you useful stuff. He'll tend to give you throwing ammo, even if it's not large rocks, which you can use to kill hydras. And he'll gift armor, which will keep you alive, too. There's a reason why 10x as many people have won as Oka than Makhleb.

Not that Makhleb is bad, but Oka's great.

Tuesday, 19th December 2017, 17:47 by Zhorgal

Rolled a new char and Oka came before Makhleb and so I chose him.
What should I train?
Should I train evocation or is -3 too much for the use I'll get from it? What evocables should I keep?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21-a0-538-gd16b88a (tiles) character file. Xuimm the Grappler (Troll Fighter) Turns: 23124, Time: 01:56:49 Health: 156/156 AC: 12 Str: 28 XL: 15 Next: 68% Magic: 21/21 EV: 24 Int: 12 God: Okawaru [*****.] Gold: 2082 SH: 12 Dex: 14 Spells: 14/14 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . - Unarmed rCold . . . Gourm + Y - +0 shield {reflect} rNeg + . . Faith . m - +0 steam dragon scales rPois . Spirit . J - +2 hat of the Gardener {rN+ Int+8} rElec . Reflect + p - +2 cloak rCorr . Harm . (gloves unavailable) MR +.... (boots unavailable) Stlth +......... o - amulet of regeneration HPRegen 1.16/turn U - +4 ring of evasion MPRegen 0.17/turn X - +6 ring of evasion @: no status effects A: large, unfitting armour, claws 3, deformed body, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 1, shaggy fur 1, tough skin 2 a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion You are on level 14 of the Dungeon. You worship Okawaru. Okawaru is extremely pleased with you. You are completely stuffed. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 22 of its levels. You have also visited: Ossuary. You have collected 2160 gold pieces. You have spent 78 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Missiles b - 18 poisoned javelins L - 30 tomahawks V - 5 silver javelins W - 29 large rocks (quivered) Armour a - a scarf of repulsion m - +0 steam dragon scales (worn) p - a +2 cloak (worn) D - a scarf of spirit shield H - a +2 robe of magic resistance J - the +2 hat of the Gardener (worn) {rN+ Int+8} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Orcish Mines) It affects your intelligence (+8). It protects you from negative energy. Y - a +0 shield of reflection (worn) Jewellery e - an uncursed ring of protection from magic o - an amulet of regeneration (around neck) y - an uncursed ring of protection from magic R - an uncursed ring of wizardry S - a +5 amulet of reflection U - a +4 ring of evasion (left claw) X - a +6 ring of evasion (right claw) Wands k - a wand of acid (19) l - a wand of enslavement (20) t - a wand of iceblast (21) u - a wand of flame (74) B - a wand of digging (15) K - a wand of polymorph (8) N - a wand of disintegration (15) O - a wand of paralysis (10) Scrolls f - 3 scrolls of blinking w - 5 scrolls of teleportation C - a scroll of identify F - 4 scrolls of remove curse I - 2 scrolls of immolation M - 4 scrolls of fog T - 5 scrolls of magic mapping Z - a scroll of fear Potions c - 3 potions of might g - 12 potions of curing h - 7 potions of agility i - a potion of invisibility j - 4 potions of lignification n - 2 potions of mutation r - 7 potions of heal wounds s - 3 potions of berserk rage z - 4 potions of cancellation E - 2 potions of ambrosia G - a potion of resistance P - 4 potions of flight Miscellaneous v - a box of beasts A - a lamp of fire Q - a phial of floods Comestibles d - 17 bread rations q - 16 meat rations x - 10 royal jellies Skills: - Level 12,0 Fighting - Level 8,0 Throwing - Level 7,3 Armour - Level 7,5 Dodging + Level 8,9 Shields - Level 13,9 Unarmed Combat - Level 10,0 Invocations You have 14 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (14/15) Temple (0/1) D:5 Lair (6/6) D:10 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3 Snake (0/4) Lair:2 Slime (0/5) Lair:5 Orc (2/2) D:9 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Vaults: D:13-14 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Kikubaaqudgha Okawaru Ru Sif Muna Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Beogh Jiyva Shops: Orc:2 *=[( Annotations: D:5 1 exclusion Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are too large for most types of armour. You have claws for hands. Your metabolism is lightning-fast. You like to eat raw meat. Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast. You are covered in fur. (AC +1) You have very tough skin. (AC +2) Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. Message History a dagger; a robe; 2 chunks of flesh Eating one of 2 chunks of flesh. You eat one of the 2 chunks of flesh. This raw flesh tastes great. You feel like a meek peon again. You see here an orc corpse. Items here: )) [[ a club; a leather armour; a trident; a chain mail Found a stone staircase leading up. Found a tapered bronze wand. Your pack is full. You see here a wand of polymorph (8). Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) Okay, then. Drop what? 52/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) Okay, then. Char dumped to 'morgue/Xuimm.txt'. Your pack is full. You see here a wand of polymorph (8). Drop what? 52/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop 3 javelins of penetration. K - a wand of polymorph (8) #. #.# #.# #.# #.. #<# #.###### #. #..@...# #. #.####.# #. #.# #. .### #.# #.### .... #.# ...## # #.. #.#####...##.# #.# #...)†.).....# #.# #######.†.#### #.# ##.## #)# #.# ########)## #.# #......!... There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Frances (D:12) An orc warlord (Orc:2) Nessos (D:13) An ettin (D:13) Snorg (D:14) Josephine (Orc:2) A rakshasa (D:13) A fire dragon (Lair:6) Erolcha (D:9) Fannar (Lair:3) A centaur warrior (D:13) 5 hydras 12 two-headed ogres Erica (D:8) 6 death yaks (Lair:6) Urug (Lair:3) An orc high priest (Orc:2) 2 unseen horrors (D:11) 3 wizards A swamp dragon (Lair:6) A glowing orange brain (D:12) 6 cyclopes 3 orc sorcerers 4 orc knights A moth of wrath (shapeshifter) (D:14) 6 manticores 18 elephants Joseph (Lair:1) 7 ugly things 6 centaur skeletons Psyche (D:12) 6 spiny frogs 2 gargoyles A kobold demonologist (D:13) 4 rime drakes 11 komodo dragons 4 demonic crawlers (D:12) A polar bear (shapeshifter) (D:13) 4 trolls 3 meliai (D:14) 10 polar bears (Lair:6) 14 blink frogs 2 raiju (Lair:6) 7 slime creatures A harpy skeleton (D:14) 5 hippogriffs 6 dream sheep (Lair:6) 3 wyverns A tarantella (shapeshifter) (D:13) A vampire (D:10) A shadow (D:13) 3 small abominations (D:12) 7 wraiths 27 yaks 3 basilisks A human (D:10) 3 steam dragons 2 hungry ghosts (D:13) 2 hogs (D:10) 2 vampire mosquitoes 21 wargs 2 acid dragons (Lair:6) Edmund (D:6) 7 porcupines 15 hell hounds (Lair:6) 7 water moccasins A floating eye (D:12) 27 orc warriors 2 swamp drakes (Lair:6) 12 black bears 6 ice beasts An eye of draining (D:14) 4 sky beasts 3 phantoms 14 ogres 21 wolves (Lair:6) 11 centaurs 17 crocodiles 4 big kobolds Blork the orc (Orc:2) 20 bullfrogs 2 elf zombies (Ossuary) A gnoll sergeant (D:6) A scorpion (D:6) 22 killer bees A vampire bat (Lair:2) 5 howler monkeys 6 crimson imps A human zombie (Ossuary) 2 bullfrog zombies 5 jellies 7 centaur zombies 3 hounds 21 orc wizards 21 orc priests A bullfrog skeleton (D:5) 7 iguanas 9 worker ants 3 hound skeletons 3 mummies 2 worker ant zombies 10 gnolls A howler monkey skeleton (D:6) 14 adders 3 shadow imps An ooze (D:1) 2 adder zombies (Ossuary) 4 adder skeletons 2 dart slugs (D:2) 9 leopard geckos 103 orcs 4 giant cockroaches 6 goblins 7 hobgoblins 7 jackals 8 quokkas A ball python (D:2) 9 bats 4 frilled lizards 11 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary) A jackal zombie (D:5) 19 kobolds 7 kobold zombies (Ossuary) 10 orc zombies (Ossuary) 8 rats A rat zombie (Ossuary) 806 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) Maurice (D:11) A porcupine (Lair:5) An orc (Orc:2) A bush (Lair:2) 3 fungi 13 plants 20 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 826 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------+----------+------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Xuimm the Troll Fighter began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 22/22 MP: 0/0 350 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 28/29 MP: 1/1 718 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 30/36 MP: 2/2 944 | D:2 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 1094 | D:2 | Reached skill level 3 in Unarmed Combat 1187 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 37/44 MP: 3/3 1730 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 49/53 MP: 4/4 2416 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 61/61 MP: 5/5 2813 | D:4 | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru. 2907 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3072 | D:5 | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat 3077 | D:5 | Noticed an ice beast 3100 | D:5 | Killed an ice beast 3195 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 68/68 MP: 6/6 3240 | D:5 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 3543 | D:5 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 3546 | D:5 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 3547 | D:5 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 3549 | D:5 | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos. 3550 | D:5 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 3551 | D:5 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 3552 | D:5 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 3556 | D:5 | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru 3639 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 3968 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 4012 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations 4108 | D:6 | Noticed Edmund 4160 | D:6 | Killed Edmund 4160 | D:6 | Reached * piety under Okawaru 4160 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 79/79 MP: 6/8 4572 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing 4697 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 4957 | D:7 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 5038 | D:7 | Reached ** piety under Okawaru 5218 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 81/88 MP: 10/10 5831 | D:8 | Found a sand-covered staircase. 5837 | Ossuary | Entered an ossuary 6306 | D:8 | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat 6442 | D:8 | Noticed Erica 6451 | D:8 | Killed Erica 6451 | D:8 | Reached *** piety under Okawaru 6451 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations 6859 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 6962 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 71/100 MP: 6/12 7012 | D:9 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 7053 | D:9 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 7058 | D:9 | Killed a two-headed ogre 7058 | D:9 | Reached **** piety under Okawaru 7090 | D:9 | Killed a two-headed ogre 7090 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing 7090 | D:9 | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat 7221 | D:9 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 7229 | D:9 | Killed a two-headed ogre 7229 | D:9 | Reached ***** piety under Okawaru 7440 | D:9 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 7448 | D:9 | Killed a two-headed ogre 7564 | D:9 | Received a gift from Okawaru 7587 | D:9 | Noticed Erolcha 7615 | D:9 | Killed Erolcha 7615 | D:9 | Received a gift from Okawaru 7615 | D:9 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 7615 | D:9 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 97/109 MP: 10/15 7863 | D:9 | Noticed a two-headed ogre 7869 | D:9 | Killed a two-headed ogre 8428 | D:9 | Noticed an orc knight 8447 | D:9 | Killed an orc knight 8490 | D:9 | Noticed an orc sorcerer 8507 | D:9 | Noticed a sixfirhy 8507 | D:9 | Killed an orc sorcerer 8950 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 9155 | D:10 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 9249 | D:10 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 9738 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 9795 | Lair:1 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 9805 | Lair:1 | Killed a five-headed hydra 9980 | Lair:1 | Noticed Joseph 9996 | Lair:1 | Killed Joseph 9996 | Lair:1 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 120/122 MP: 17/17 10649 | Lair:2 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 10785 | Lair:2 | Reached ****** piety under Okawaru 10997 | Lair:2 | Received a gift from Okawaru 11682 | Lair:3 | Noticed Urug 11694 | Lair:3 | Killed Urug 11694 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat 11970 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru 11978 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 12266 | Lair:3 | Noticed Fannar 12276 | Lair:3 | Killed Fannar 12284 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru 12290 | Lair:3 | Got a scorched hand crossbow {god gift} 12310 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 12341 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 68/133 MP: 10/19 13000 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations 13665 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat 14133 | Lair:5 | Received a gift from Okawaru 14495 | Lair:5 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 14496 | Lair:5 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 14924 | Lair:6 | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts 14962 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 15209 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Okawaru 15244 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 15877 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat 15877 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 100/146 MP: 13/20 16294 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Okawaru 16651 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Okawaru 17236 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 17500 | Orc:1 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 17564 | Orc:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru 17610 | Orc:1 | Got a bloodstained hat {god gift} 17616 | Orc:1 | Identified the +2 hat of the Gardener {rN+ Int+8} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Orcish Mines) 17790 | Orc:2 | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines 17894 | Orc:2 | Noticed Josephine 17912 | Orc:2 | Killed Josephine 17976 | Orc:2 | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [a neqoxec] 18075 | Orc:2 | Noticed an orc warlord 18083 | Orc:2 | Noticed Blork the orc 18103 | Orc:2 | Killed an orc warlord 18114 | Orc:2 | Killed Blork the orc 18296 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 18371 | Orc:2 | Found Fipyqux's Antique Armour Emporium. 18475 | Orc:2 | Found Dearpheuh's Antique Weapon Emporium. 18490 | Orc:2 | Found Beitoan's Jewellery Emporium. 18506 | Orc:2 | Found Sefuichipom's General Store. 18513 | Orc:2 | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 39 gold pieces 18513 | Orc:2 | Bought a potion of curing for 39 gold pieces 18848 | Orc:2 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 19288 | D:11 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 19454 | D:11 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 19529 | D:11 | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru. 19595 | D:11 | Noticed Maurice 19649 | D:11 | Killed Maurice 20669 | D:12 | Noticed Psyche 20679 | D:12 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 151/156 MP: 18/21 20681 | D:12 | Killed Psyche 20681 | D:12 | Received a gift from Okawaru 20748 | D:12 | Noticed Frances 20765 | D:12 | Killed Frances 20765 | D:12 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 20860 | D:12 | Identified the Compendium of Quantum Poisoning 21700 | D:13 | Noticed Nessos 21710 | D:13 | Killed Nessos 21710 | D:13 | Received a gift from Okawaru 23067 | D:14 | Noticed Snorg 23075 | D:14 | Killed Snorg Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | ---------------+----------------------------------------------+----- Unarmed Combat | 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 13 | 13,9 Fighting | 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 | 12,0 Dodging | 3 4 5 7 | 7,5 Shields | 3 4 6 7 8 | 8,9 Invocations | 1 3 5 6 8 9 10 | 10,0 Throwing | 2 4 6 7 8 | 8,0 Armour | 4 7 | 7,3 Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 91 | 195 | 343 | 642 | 1357 || 2628 Throw: Tomahawk | | | | 9 | 3 || 12 Large rock | | | | | 20 || 20 Invok: Heroism | | | 8 | 23 | 32 || 63 Finesse | | | | | 5 || 5 Use: Scroll | | 4 | 10 | 2 | 15 || 31 Potion | | | 1 | | 3 || 4 Stab: Sleeping | | 2 | | 2 | 2 || 6 Distracted | | | | | 1 || 1 Confused | | | | | 1 || 1 Eat: Chunk | 16 | 19 | 34 | 50 | 102 || 221 Fruit | | | | | 1 || 1 Armor: Robe | 26 | 36 | 49 | 97 | 117 || 325 Steam dragon scal | | | | | 58 || 58 Dodge: Dodged | 22 | 55 | 102 | 233 | 568 || 980 Block: Shield | 30 | 74 | 143 | 359 | 627 || 1233 Reflection | | | | | 31 || 31 Table legend: A = Spawn XP B = Non-spawn XP C = Spawn XP percentage of total XP D = Spawn monster count E = Non-spawn monster count F = Spawn count percentage of total count G = Total turns spent on level A B C D E F G +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+--------- Total | 0 | 137281 | 0,0 | 0 | 807 | 0,0 | 23124 +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+--------- D:1 | 0 | 33 | 0,0 | 0 | 15 | 0,0 | 676 D:2 | 0 | 74 | 0,0 | 0 | 19 | 0,0 | 628 D:3 | 0 | 148 | 0,0 | 0 | 27 | 0,0 | 870 D:4 | 0 | 233 | 0,0 | 0 | 15 | 0,0 | 832 D:5 | 0 | 614 | 0,0 | 0 | 18 | 0,0 | 786 D:6 | 0 | 988 | 0,0 | 0 | 20 | 0,0 | 1082 D:7 | 0 | 1088 | 0,0 | 0 | 19 | 0,0 | 898 D:8 | 0 | 1728 | 0,0 | 0 | 22 | 0,0 | 813 D:9 | 0 | 12117 | 0,0 | 0 | 93 | 0,0 | 2166 D:10 | 0 | 3230 | 0,0 | 0 | 31 | 0,0 | 818 D:11 | 0 | 3417 | 0,0 | 0 | 30 | 0,0 | 932 D:12 | 0 | 16570 | 0,0 | 0 | 57 | 0,0 | 1403 D:13 | 0 | 13182 | 0,0 | 0 | 50 | 0,0 | 1107 D:14 | 0 | 11359 | 0,0 | 0 | 37 | 0,0 | 448 Lair:1 | 0 | 3555 | 0,0 | 0 | 13 | 0,0 | 880 Lair:2 | 0 | 4180 | 0,0 | 0 | 25 | 0,0 | 1052 Lair:3 | 0 | 10969 | 0,0 | 0 | 32 | 0,0 | 1367 Lair:4 | 0 | 2922 | 0,0 | 0 | 16 | 0,0 | 957 Lair:5 | 0 | 5787 | 0,0 | 0 | 19 | 0,0 | 1008 Lair:6 | 0 | 30640 | 0,0 | 0 | 116 | 0,0 | 2181 Orc:1 | 0 | 2516 | 0,0 | 0 | 22 | 0,0 | 544 Orc:2 | 0 | 11488 | 0,0 | 0 | 72 | 0,0 | 1404 Ossuary | 0 | 443 | 0,0 | 0 | 39 | 0,0 | 272 +---------+---------+-------+---------+---------+-------+---------

Thursday, 21st December 2017, 01:05 by crawlnoob

You should train more fighting and especially more UC

Thursday, 21st December 2017, 08:46 by nago

Zhorgal wrote:What should I train?
Should I train evocation or is -3 too much for the use I'll get from it? What evocables should I keep?

With a normal Tr the skill training is roughly UC>fighting>armor (when a dragon one is available) > throwing > everything else.
You should train shield when a shield is available and eventually a bit of dodging if somehow raise dex to decent levels (trough level up or items).

With Oka you should obliovsly train a bit less of physical skill thanks the +5 of heroism in favor of other skills is something good is available.

Except of the wand of flame, all the evocables you hare are very good and some of them dependant on evo for power (pretty much everything you have except Dig). I'd train evo to 6ish to get a bit more power to them.

CIP: ToFi^Makhleb

CIP: ToFi^Makhleb

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Re: CIP: ToFi^Makhleb

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Re: CIP: ToFi^Makhleb

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