CiP: DECj 0.9 - Where to go from here?

[DerWille]

So after getting my first win using a MDFi I decided to try out Enchanters but... that was like gouging my eyes out with a spoon. So I switched from DEEn to DECj and it's been so much easier. However I've come to a problem.

I'm not sure what to do next and where to take my character. I've cleared out the Hive, Orcish Mines, and Lair and have traveled down to D14. I could probably make it through to D18 safely but after that, I'm not sure what to do. My Lair branches for this game are the Shoals and Snake Pit.

The only big notes spell wise is that I have both the Book of Annihilations and the Book of the Sky. The code segment below has all of the spell books I own. What spells should I go for?

Also, how should I manage my skills? Am I emphasizing the wrong ones or have some that are too high? Should I prioritize others?

Also what gear should I be gunning for? Right now I just have alot of basic equipment, a few resists, and a few things of Wizardy. Oh yeah and Amulet of Gourgamand. I would be completely dead with that sucker.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.0 character file.

Willow the Unseen (Deep Elf Conjurer)                                                  Turns: 59636, Time: 05:24:28

HP  64/64        AC 11     Str  7      XL: 15   Next:  6%
MP  37/37        EV 19     Int 23      God: Sif Muna [******]
Gold 1917        SH 12     Dex 15      Spells:  9 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : x . .   See Invis. : .    G - staff of wizardry
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  F - +2 leather armour of Bligots {+Blink rElec
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    a - +1 buckler
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    E - +2 orc wizard hat
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    m - +0 cloak
Res.Elec. : +       Spirit.Shd : .    h - +1 pair of gloves
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    o - +0 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    H - amulet of the gourmand
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    K - ring of protection from magic
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    M - ring of ice

@: burdened, slow, very resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy
A: -10% hp
a: Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Sif Muna.
Sif Muna is exalted by your worship.
You are encumbered.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 30 of its levels.
You have visited 2 portal chambers: sewer, spiders nest.

You have collected 2086 gold pieces.
You have spent 189 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 s - an uncursed sabre of venom
 u - an elven dagger of holy wrath (quivered)
Missiles
 w - 4 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 a - a +1 buckler (worn)
 h - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 m - a +0 cloak (worn)
 n - a +1 orcish robe
 o - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 E - a +2 orcish wizard hat (worn)
 F - the +2 leather armour of Bligots (worn) {+Blink rElec Int-2 Stlth++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you blink.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
Magical devices
 d - a wand of hasting {zapped: 1}
 f - a wand of frost (11)
 t - a wand of polymorph other {zapped: 1}
 v - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
 D - a wand of polymorph other
 L - a wand of confusion (7)
Comestibles
 B - an apricot
Scrolls
 p - a scroll of identify
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed ring of life protection
 i - an uncursed amulet of warding
 j - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 q - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 r - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 x - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 J - an uncursed amulet of faith
 K - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 M - a ring of ice (left hand)
Potions
 e - a potion of speed
 g - 2 potions of heal wounds
 k - a potion of resistance
 l - 2 potions of levitation
 z - a black potion
 A - 3 potions of healing
 C - an orange potion
 N - a smoky blue potion
Books
 b - Sif Muna's Papyrus of Battle Magic and the Snowflakes {god gift}
   (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Magic Dart                        Conjuration                  1
   Sting                              Conjuration/Poison           1
   *Throw Frost                       Conjuration/Ice              2
   Ozocubu's Armour                   Charms/Ice                   3
   Iron Shot                          Conjuration/Earth            6
   Ozocubu's Refrigeration            Ice                          6
 y - a book of Dreams   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Ensorcelled Hibernation            Hexes/Ice                    2
   Alistair's Intoxication            Transmutation/Poison         4
   *Flight                            Charms/Air                   4
   Phase Shift                        Translocation                5
   Shadow Creatures                   Summoning                    5
 I - a book of the Sky {god gift}   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Insulation                         Charms/Air                   4
   Airstrike                          Air                          4
   *Flight                            Charms/Air                   4
   Silence                            Hexes/Air                    5
   Deflect Missiles                   Charms/Air                   6
   Conjure Ball Lightning             Conjuration/Air              7
   Tornado                            Air                          9
 O - a book of Annihilations   
   WARNING: If you fail in an attempt to memorise a spell from this book, the
   book will lash out at you.
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Poison Arrow                       Conjuration/Poison           6
   Orb of Destruction                 Conjuration                  7
   Chain Lightning                    Conjuration/Air              8
   Lehudib's Crystal Spear            Conjuration/Earth            8
   Ice Storm                          Conjuration/Ice              9
   Fire Storm                         Conjuration/Fire             9
 P - a book of the Dragon   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Flight                            Charms/Air                   4
   Cause Fear                         Hexes                        5
   Bolt of Fire                       Conjuration/Fire             6
   Dragon Form                        Fire/Transmutation           8
   Summon Dragon                      Summoning                    9
 Q - a book of Envenomations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Spider Form                        Transmutation/Poison         3
   Poison Weapon                      Charms/Poison                3
   Summon Scorpions                   Summoning/Poison             4
   Olgreb's Toxic Radiance            Poison                       4
   *Poisonous Cloud                   Conjuration/Poison/Air       5
 R - a book of Power {god gift}   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Teleport Other                     Translocation                3
   Iskenderun's Mystic Blast          Conjuration                  4
   *Venom Bolt                        Conjuration/Poison           5
   *Poisonous Cloud                   Conjuration/Poison/Air       5
   Iron Shot                          Conjuration/Earth            6
   Mass Confusion                     Hexes                        6
   Orb of Destruction                 Conjuration                  7
 S - a book of Morphology   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Sticks to Snakes                   Transmutation                2
   Petrify                            Transmutation/Earth          4
   Polymorph Other                    Hexes/Transmutation          4
   Cigotuvi's Degeneration            Transmutation/Necromancy     5
   Ignite Poison                      Fire/Transmutation           5
 T - a book of Conjurations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Magic Dart                        Conjuration                  1
   *Throw Frost                       Conjuration/Ice              2
   *Mephitic Cloud                    Conjuration/Poison/Air       3
   *Lightning Bolt                    Conjuration/Air              5
   *Bolt of Cold                      Conjuration/Ice              6
   Freezing Cloud                     Conjuration/Ice/Air          6
 U - Sif Muna's Tome of Confrontation and Lightness {god gift}
   (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Shock                              Conjuration/Air              1
   Flame Tongue                       Conjuration/Fire             1
   Static Discharge                   Conjuration/Air              3
   Throw Icicle                       Conjuration/Ice              4
   *Venom Bolt                        Conjuration/Poison           5
 V - a book of Transfigurations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Stoneskin                          Transmutation/Earth          2
   Condensation Shield                Ice/Transmutation            4
   Ice Form                           Ice/Transmutation            4
   Statue Form                        Transmutation/Earth          6
   Dragon Form                        Fire/Transmutation           8
 W - Stygged's Almanac of Gliding Arcane Weapons {god gift}
   (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Sting                              Conjuration/Poison           1
   Flame Tongue                       Conjuration/Fire             1
   *Repel Missiles                    Charms/Air                   2
   Static Discharge                   Conjuration/Air              3
   Throw Icicle                       Conjuration/Ice              4
   Tornado                            Air                          9
Magical staves
 G - a staff of wizardry (weapon)


   Skills:
 - Level 1 Fighting
 - Level 1 Short Blades
 - Level 1 Staves
 - Level 1 Armour
 + Level 12 Dodging
 + Level 15 Stealth
 - Level 1 Stabbing
 - Level 5 Shields
 - Level 1 Traps & Doors
 + Level 13 Spellcasting
 + Level 12 Conjurations
 - Level 1 Charms
 * Level 13 Ice Magic
 * Level 11 Air Magic
 - Level 8 Poison Magic
 + Level 7 Invocations
 - Level 8 Evocations


You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Success   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           #####        Excellent   1    None
b - Mephitic Cloud        Pois/Air/Conj  #######...   Excellent   3    None
c - Throw Frost           Ice/Conj       #######      Excellent   2    None
d - Lightning Bolt        Air/Conj       #######...   Excellent   5    Choko
e - Bolt of Cold          Ice/Conj       ########..   Excellent   6    Honeycomb
f - Venom Bolt            Pois/Conj      #######...   Excellent   5    Choko
g - Poisonous Cloud       Pois/Air/Conj  #######...   Excellent   5    Choko
h - Flight                Air/Chrm       ######....   Excellent   4    None
i - Repel Missiles        Air/Chrm       ######....   Excellent   2    None


[Happy Corner]

You should turn on Fighting (to help with HP) and Charms (so you can cast Haste when you find it).

The spells you should be going for are ice spells, and you have several good ones. Ozocubu's Refrigeration and Freezing Cloud are extremely useful, and you can work your way up to Ice Storm. Throw Icicle is also good against things resistant to cold (only 40% of its damage can be resisted by rC), although your need for that is not so great because you also have Lightning Bolt memorized. Deflect Missiles should also have replaced Repel Missiles the minute you found it. Luckily, you have several spells that you can forget - if you're not past the point of the game where Mephetic Cloud is no longer that useful, you'll be approaching it soon, and Magic Dart/Throw Frost are outclassed by the other blasts you now have available.

[cerebovssquire]

I disagree on Deflect Missiles; Repel Missiles is sufficient and much cheaper (hunger-), skill- and MP-wise.

You have literally no usable melee option and working on that should be high on your priority list. A staff of cold is a decent weapon, you might also want to use a short blade if you found something decent (quickblade, sabre of speed...) though said enhancer stave will deal more damage.

[mumra]

You have literally no usable melee option and working on that should be high on your priority list. A staff of cold is a decent weapon, you might also want to use a short blade if you found something decent (quickblade, sabre of speed...) though said enhancer stave will deal more damage.

Personally, I go without melee options - why melee, when you have channeling from Sif? You have melee damage avoidance - raise your Shields skill to get more out of that buckler, certainly raise Fighting for HP; your Dodging is pretty good but it's always useful to have more. But if you want to keep pumping your spell skills instead of developing a weapon skill, it's a perfectly valid path.

[cerebovssquire]

You have literally no usable melee option and working on that should be high on your priority list. A staff of cold is a decent weapon, you might also want to use a short blade if you found something decent (quickblade, sabre of speed...) though said enhancer stave will deal more damage.

Personally, I go without melee options - why melee, when you have channeling from Sif? You have melee damage avoidance - raise your Shields skill to get more out of that buckler, certainly raise Fighting for HP; your Dodging is pretty good but it's always useful to have more. But if you want to keep pumping your spell skills instead of developing a weapon skill, it's a perfectly valid path.

You save greatly on MP, resting time, food... you make less noise... and it helps to clear out many monsters in melee, especially in larger fights where you simply don't have the MP to kill everyone or the time or food to stand channeling. The investment in Staves and Evocations wouldn't be huge, either, while also helping him in different ways (Evocations makes an air elemental fan or crystal ball of energy usable).
It's also easier on the player because he doesn't have to use spells against every orc (less key presses), though that's a subjective advantage of course.

[mumra]

You save greatly on MP, resting time, food... you make less noise... and it helps to clear out many monsters in melee, especially in larger fights where you simply don't have the MP to kill everyone or the time or food to stand channeling. The investment in Staves and Evocations wouldn't be huge, either, while also helping him in different ways (Evocations makes an air elemental fan or crystal ball of energy usable).
It's also easier on the player because he doesn't have to use spells against every orc (less key presses), though that's a subjective advantage of course.

My point was it's a choice, down to player's style ... personally I can't stand melee and I don't mind pinging weaker enemies with IMB (actually, even with no weapon skill, Orcs will still go down in one hit from a stave if your character is XL:27). Melee is noisier than certain spells anyway; and if your skills are high enough and/or you have Lich Form, food cost is negligible; and who cares about resting times unless you're bothered about score. You still need to rest to restore HP lost in melee anyway.

For my 15-rune win I had zero melee skills. Although I was with Vehumet; so in big fights MP sometimes restored as fast as I could spend it. Rare times when I actually had MP problems were e.g. Gloorx Vloq dealing with all those executioners, and there is literally no way I'd consider having a squishy Deep Elf melee that many executioners, with or without a decent weapon skill

[DerWille]

Thanks for the advice so far.

So fighting/charms need to be turned on for sure. Should I bother turning off any other skills? Do I need more stealth or am I good for now?

Also should I exchange poison cloud for freezing cloud or should I keep both? I also have airstrike, should I bother learning that instead of throw icicle/lightning bolt?

[cerebovssquire]

Freezing Cloud is more powerful than Poisonous Cloud. If you resist poison, the latter is more convenient to cast, especially on yourself, though.
Airstrike is a great spell. Since you already have multiple other good conjurations, you could forget Lightning Bolt. You'd have ways to deal cold, poisonous and physical damage then which will be very helpful.

and if your skills are high enough and/or you have Lich Form, food cost is negligible

1) No matter how high your skills are, Channel Energy, which according to you is the way to avoid melee completely, will have a high food cost.
2) A very small minority of casters has Necromutation in a threerune game and that minority has basically no reasons to put experience into it where, for instance, Fighting or Translocations would be more useful, and not every caster or hybrid has it in extended - nor do they need it.

[mumra]

1) No matter how high your skills are, Channel Energy, which according to you is the way to avoid melee completely, will have a high food cost.

If your magic skills are sufficiently high then Channel Energy is your only food cost; and because you're channeling, you don't have to rest to restore MP; so it balances out somewhat (no, I don't have numbers).

Anyway, melee uses a lot of food too; you have to run around to stand next to monsters; you have to spend several turns hitting them. With Freezing Cloud (or even better, Ice Storm) - one cast and they're all dead.

The thing is, everything in the game uses food; but luckily, food is usually massively abundant. Unless for some reason it's becoming scarce (e.g. a 15-rune game), decisions on how you prefer to play do not have to come down to food usage.

So fighting/charms need to be turned on for sure. Should I bother turning off any other skills? Do I need more stealth or am I good for now?

Stealth is handy - it means you're less likely to wake things up - but on a caster it's not so important, since your spells will wake things up; and if you've got no weapon skills you won't be stabbing things (again it's the melee vs magic debate; seriously, just use whichever you enjoy more).

Also should I exchange poison cloud for freezing cloud or should I keep both? I also have airstrike, should I bother learning that instead of throw icicle/lightning bolt?

They're all good against different things. I find Lightning Bolt less useful later in the game, especially as it's so noisy. Throw Icicle and Airstrike are good against most things; Airstrike is particularly effective against flying creatures, whereas Throw Icicle I find more all-round effective but particularly so against the cold vulnerable. Poison Arrow is really effective if you can find it.

[DerWille]

Thanks for your help. I tried out your advice and well... I was instagibbed by an eight headed hydra skeleton going down the stairs. There was black and when I came to, dead. Couldn't even react.

[mumra]

Thanks for your help. I tried out your advice and well... I was instagibbed by an eight headed hydra skeleton going down the stairs. There was black and when I came to, dead. Couldn't even react.

Ouch! Perhaps not much you could have done about that ... although, which stairs were those? Sounds a bit harsh!

When I'm going down stairs in more dangerous places I usually cast a few buffs first; e.g. any three or even four out of: Swiftness, Haste, Ozo's Armour, Stoneskin, Phase Shift, Deflect Missiles. That way you have at least a chance of surviving something like that. Deep Elves have so little health there are all kinds of things that can one-shot you, especially as your AC wasn't too great.

Better luck next time!