The Tavern

Ok, it's "titanic". But 87 damage!!

Was the Champion of Okawaru.
Slain by a titanic slime creature (87 damage)
... on level 15 of the Dungeon on July 3, 2017.

Obviously my fault, as always in Crawl. But...

Btw, has Okawaru been nerfed regarding gifts?
In 112002 turns (including Lair, Orc, D15) i received only some sling bullets, a nice +8 unrandard sling, a +1 hat and a great shield... obviously no armour whatsoever.
Ice dragons and fire dragons dropped no scales, I got only steam and acid.
And I was at 68% of casting statue form with 2 x Wiz...

No oka gifts were always totally unreliable and possibly shit.

Depending on what was the last version you played with Oka, their spawn rate could be "nerfed" because his piety gain was changed and now days is quite unreliable (especially early on).

And statue form at 68% with 2x wiz isn't indicative at all without knowing skill training, stats, body armor etc. And why you were training statue form?

If it took you 112002 turns to finish Lair, Orc, and D:15 then you lost about 350 piety to decay. Most Okawaru games win before turn 100,000. No wonder you didn't get many gifts.

d3k0 wrote:Ok, it's "titanic". But 87 damage!!

Each slime adds 22 to max damage. Titanic has 5 slimes merged, so the max is 110.

d3k0 wrote:Ok, it's "titanic". But 87 damage!!

Sprucery wrote:Each slime adds 22 to max damage. Titanic has 5 slimes merged, so the max is 110.

Don't worry, d3k0, some months ago a very experienced player lost a char in the slime pits in a single turn to a titanic creature. He was surprised as well as he didn't know about this 110 max damage.

d3k0 wrote:Btw, has Okawaru been nerfed regarding gifts?

In addition to the answers given above: every now and then players don't use Oka's good abilities in hope for item gifts and are disappointed after the char has died. Note that Oka's main gifts are heroism (which is strong) and finesse (which is very strong).

d3k0 wrote:And I was at 68% of casting statue form with 2 x Wiz...

A ring/staff of wizardry is a useful item for many chars. But a second wizardry item is of little help and close to useless.

Better luck next time!

nago wrote:And why you were training statue form?

I found that Unarmed Troll (maybe it's me that I am still not good enough) are too unreliable with just a robe/troll armour past Orc/Lair. Also in last Lair level you have to be very careful if you are in a robe.

So, there are just a few methods of getting some AC:
- finding an early dragon armour (happened only once)
- getting an Oka gift (this was my idea in this game, but did not work)
- casting statue form (better) or Ice Form/Cigotuvi's Embrace/Ozocobus'Armour (since removal of Stoneskin...)

Without decent armour also a yak that gores you is dangerous...

d3k0,
Those are my impressions too (and we have had a hot discussion about it some time ago) but training Statue Form makes you even more vulnerable during this "hard" time and with Tr aptitudes and Int it will be a long time before you get the spell inline so I believe it is a bad idea (unless you are already preparing for extended or are just having fun).

duvessa wrote:If it took you 112002 turns to finish Lair, Orc, and D:15 then you lost about 350 piety to decay. Most Okawaru games win before turn 100,000. No wonder you didn't get many gifts.

I am still not good at lowering turns count in general. And being a troll I find that I have to squeeze any Xp to get anything online.
With "anything" here I mean:
- shield to 9 or 15
- UC in the 10 and then in the 15
- throwing or slings or Evocation (wands) or Invocation (when I try to use Makhleb) at about 8 (I just need something "ranged" or something to deal with Hydras)

I know that I still have to improve this behaviour...

VeryAngryFelid wrote:d3k0,
Those are my impressions too (and we have had a hot discussion about it some time ago) but training Statue Form makes you even more vulnerable during this "hard" time and with Tr aptitudes and Int it will be a long time before you get the spell inline so I believe it is a bad idea (unless you are already preparing for extended or are just having fun).

I had an "half idea" of going into extended with Statue Form and/or Kiku, when I saw the book in a shop I though: "Nice, I will come back here after the second rune".
Then I found myself at 4/6 Lair, 1/2 Orc and 11/15 Dungeon without rPois and with just a +2 robe of the Archimagi (no MR...).
So, without any other viable option, started to train for a great shield and, having found 2 wiz items, started to put some exp in transm/earth.

Maybe in the next run it's better to go for Ozocobu's armour or Kiku + C.Embrace?

Tr is about positioning IMHO, you have to play carefully, ready to lure tough monsters because you cannot continue fighting non-stop like characters in heavy armour do.
I suspect you have not used heroism often enough. It is cheap and it gives +5 UC which is a huge deal.
Some players like to enter Lair with a stack of large rocks, they continue exploring main dungeon looking for Cyclops. Or just run away from every hydra.

d3k0 wrote:Maybe in the next run it's better to go for Ozocobu's armour or Kiku + C.Embrace?

Ozo's is great and so is Kiku but it's better to animate the corpses than cast CE imo.

I learned (the hard way...) how to deal with hydras, and now I would say they are not a big problem. My three "proven methods" are:
- ranged (anything work, a well enchanted sling or big rocks, provided you have at least 8 in the relevant skill)
- if you have shield, any untrained long blade of flame (this game I used a +3 scimitar of flaming, I trained until 2 Lbl just to be sure)
- brothers if I am with Trog (+ some ranged)

I used Heroism a total of 36 times. Btw, I was in Hero when I was killed by the orrible titanic slime...

Sprucery wrote:Ozo's is great and so is Kiku but it's better to animate the corpses than cast CE imo.

Would you start as TrIE? Just unarmed until 11, then Ozo and shield?

One thing about slime creatures that is widely not appreciated is that they dissolve into smaller slime creatures when you leave space for them to do so. So if you see a titanic creature pursuing you, and you can't escape it upstairs, then stop to face it with eight open spaces around you. When the creature arrives, it will not attack you immediately, but surround you as a gang of simple/single slime creatures. That does not sound like much of an advantage, but it is, as now each creature's 22 hp need to bite through your AC, which usually leaves you in a much better shape than when a titanic hits you with the full force of its 100+ slam. If you have any AC at all, this gives you enough time to destroy the slimes one by one.

Majang wrote:So if you see a titanic creature pursuing you, and you can't escape it upstairs, then stop to face it with eight open spaces around you. When the creature arrives, it will not attack you immediately, but surround you as a gang of simple/single slime creatures.

This is not true. Do not do this. Merged slime creatures have a chance of splitting when they're next to you, but that chance is only 50%. The other 50% of the time, the titanic slime creature will attack you with its 1d110 damage attack.
The best way to split slime creatures is to get them out of LOS. Simply going around a corner will give the slime creature the same 50% chance to split for every turn it's out of LOS, and without a 50% chance of getting yourself attacked for 1d110 damage.

d3k0 wrote:Would you start as TrIE? Just unarmed until 11, then Ozo and shield?

Something like that could work, although personally, when I play TrIE I learn and cast all the spells in the book just for role-playing reasons :)

It used to be great when you could use the starting book to unlearn your magic spell on the first turn of the game as Troll. They removed spellbook amnesia though.

edgefigaro's handy guide to Tr

1) UC alone to 6
2) Add fighting, take UC to 10
3) Add Throwing

Other
a) When you find a shield, start training shields
b) When you find dragon scales, start training armor
c) If you pick an invocation god, train invocations as needed

d3k0 wrote:
duvessa wrote:If it took you 112002 turns to finish Lair, Orc, and D:15 then you lost about 350 piety to decay. Most Okawaru games win before turn 100,000. No wonder you didn't get many gifts.

I am still not good at lowering turns count in general. And being a troll I find that I have to squeeze any Xp to get anything online.
With "anything" here I mean:
- shield to 9 or 15
- UC in the 10 and then in the 15
- throwing or slings or Evocation (wands) or Invocation (when I try to use Makhleb) at about 8 (I just need something "ranged" or something to deal with Hydras)

I know that I still have to improve this behaviour...

I missed this post. It sounds like you're going for too much. Shield penalties aside from the spellcasting penalty are pretty minor, so you don't need to train much Shields, if any, even in a large shield, until you either get very late in the game or start casting spells. Also, 10 and 15 aren't special breakpoints for UC anymore; the attack delay now decreases smoothly all the way up to 27 skill. I would never train Slings on a troll.
You do not need any skills to deal with hydras. Hydras are the same speed as you, as long as they're not in water. So you can just walk away from them. Large rocks also kill hydras fine even with 0 Throwing skill. In general, I'd recommend you pick either Throwing or unarmed for your offense, not both; you can't throw and claw on the same turn.
If you want statue form on a troll you pretty much need to resign yourself to either skipping most of that Shields/Throwing/etc. training, or getting it really late in the game (at which point you can easily harvest a dragon armour from Depths if you really want one).

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YASD: Titanic slime & Oka gifts

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