CiP: BaBe^Trog, found strange Hat

[d3k0]

Hi all!
I am testing the new Ba race and I find it quite funny, maybe because in melee I am bad at positioning and the Hop helps a lot. I find it a friendly race for poor melee players.
Also Hop + Brothers in Arms is quite good for emergency situations.
Apart from this, I am going with Long Blades + shield and got to Lair:6 (cleared). Trog gifetd a +4 antimagic demon blade, and I have a +5 flaming falchion for hydras.
Found the +18 shield of the Gong (rElec rN+ MR+ EV-5), that is very useful but sometimes i swap with a "normal" +2 shield (guess why? ).
On the armour side, i found a +7 ring mail and I am using it since it leaves me with some EV (anyway, I am training both dodge and armour). Somewhere I have also a +0 Steam Dragon Armour, a +5 dagger with +Inv, and a Troll Hide armour, so if I want I can go also the "stealth" route.
Now I found a +4 Hat "Lienuseg" {Regen+ Str+9 Dex-3 Slay-6}.
The +4 is obviously good, but what about a Slay-6? How can I know how the penalty imposed by Slay-6 interacts with Str+9??
What would you do? I have also a "normal" +2 Hat.

Thank you

[d3k0]

This is the char dump:

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20.0 (tiles) character file.

Wok VI the Peltast (Barachi Berserker)             Turns: 18540, Time: 01:34:46

Health: 92/111     AC: 22    Str: 31    XL:     14   Next: 9%
Magic:  4/4        EV: 15    Int:  5    God:    Trog [******]
Gold:   1236       SH: 17    Dex: 14    Spells: 13/13 levels left

rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   a - +4 demon blade (antimagic)
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   X - +2 shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   W - +7 ring mail of Jausm {Str+3 Int-2 Dex+2}
rPois    +         Spirit   .   N - +4 hat "Lienuseg" {Regen+ Str+9 Dex-3 Slay-6}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   t - +1 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   E - +1 pair of gloves
MR       +....                  g - +0 pair of boots
Stlth    +.........             (no amulet)
Regen    0.7/turn               (no ring)
MPRegen  0.1/turn               R - ring of poison resistance

@: slow
A: +LOS, swims, horns 1, slowness 1, weak 1, strong legs 2
a: Hop, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Burn Spellbooks, Renounce
Religion


You are on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 16 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer.

You have collected 1236 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +4 antimagic demon blade (weapon)
 b - a +0 hunting sling
 o - the +5 dagger "Lamagh" {elec, +Inv MR+}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 V - a blowgun
 Y - a +5 falchion of flaming
Missiles
 f - 6 silver javelins
 j - 77 poisoned needles
 l - 368 stones (quivered)
 n - 171 sling bullets
 s - 5 javelins
 v - 2 throwing nets
 B - 3 exploding tomahawks
 J - 7 tomahawks
 L - 2 needles of sleeping
 T - 6 needles of paralysis
Armour
 g - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 t - a +1 cloak (worn)
 y - a +2 hat
 E - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 N - the +4 hat "Lienuseg" (worn) {Regen+ Str+9 Dex-3 Slay-6}
   (You acquired it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your strength (+9).
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (-6).
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 S - the +18 shield of the Gong {rElec rN+ MR+ EV-5}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your evasion (-5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 U - a +0 chain mail of fire resistance
 W - the +7 ring mail of Jausm (worn) {Str+3 Int-2 Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 X - a +2 shield (worn)
Jewellery
 Q - an uncursed ring of flight
 R - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
Wands
 P - a wand of disintegration (?/24) {recharged}
 Z - a wand of paralysis (?/24)
Scrolls
 d - 8 scrolls of remove curse
 m - 7 scrolls of identify
 w - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 A - 4 scrolls of fog
 F - 5 scrolls of fear
 G - 2 scrolls of blinking
 I - 6 scrolls of enchant weapon
 M - 6 scrolls of immolation
 O - 5 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 e - a potion of heal wounds
 k - 8 potions of curing
 p - a potion of resistance
 q - 6 potions of lignification
 x - 2 potions of berserk rage
 z - 4 potions of might
 D - 4 potions of haste
 H - 4 potions of ambrosia
 K - 5 potions of agility
Miscellaneous
 C - a lamp of fire
Comestibles
 c - 4 bread rations
 h - 11 meat rations
 i - 36 fruits
 r - 7 royal jellies
 u - 3 chunks of flesh


   Skills:
 + Level 10,7 Fighting
 - Level 14,0 Long Blades
 - Level 8,1(8,4) Slings
 - Level 3,5(6,2) Throwing
 + Level 4,1 Armour
 * Level 7,3 Dodging
 - Level 16,1 Shields


You have 13 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (10/15)            Temple (0/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:9
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:3        Snake (0/4) Lair:4          Orc (0/2) D:9
 Slime: Lair:5-6   

Altars:
Elyvilon
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Yredelemnul

Shops:
D:5 %   D:8 }

Annotations:
Lair:5 exclusion: 3 oklob plants


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Shadows flee at your approach. (+LOS)
You can swim through water.
You cover ground slowly.
You can hop longer distances.
You have a pair of small horns on your head.
You are weak. (Str -2)


Message History

You see here a +2 hat.
Drop what? 52/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop an uncursed ring of fire.
y - a +2 hat
(m)acro, (M)acro raw, keymap [(k) default, (x) level-map, (t)argeting, (c)onfirm, m(e)nu], (s)ave?
Aborting.
Char dumped to '/home/d3k/.crawl/morgue/WokVI.txt'.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
No target in view!
No target in view!
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
No target in view!
No target in view!
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.

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##..#.÷....8.÷.##....#
#...#÷..##.....#....P#
#P.P#..##.#..8.#..†P.#
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There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  3 hydras
  3 catoblepae
  3 two-headed ogres
  A deep troll shaman (Lair:6)
  2 death yaks (Lair:6)
  Urug (Lair:5)
  A shock serpent (Lair:4)
  Pikel (D:5)
  A manticore (Lair:3)
  4 elephants
  4 black mambas
  A gargoyle (D:10)
  3 rime drakes
  7 spiny frogs
  3 komodo dragons
  3 trolls
  2 polar bears
  A queen bee (Lair:3)
  5 blink frogs (Lair:3)
  12 hippogriffs
  6 dream sheep (Lair:6)
  Sigmund (D:4)
  A spriggan (Lair:2)
  Eustachio (D:6)
  6 yaks
  4 basilisks
  A steam dragon (D:9)
  4 wyverns
  A hungry ghost (D:10)
  Menkaure (D:6)
  A warg (Lair:2)
  22 water moccasins
  7 porcupines
  2 ice beasts
  4 orc warriors
  2 sky beasts
  6 black bears
  2 phantoms
  3 ogres
  51 wolves
  6 centaurs
  12 crocodiles
  A big kobold (D:8)
  11 bullfrogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:6)
  A wyvern zombie (D:9)
  A wyvern skeleton (D:8)
  2 scorpions
  25 killer bees (Lair:3)
  5 wights
  5 crimson imps
  A quasit (D:7)
  9 hounds
  3 bullfrog zombies
  5 jellies
  5 orc priests
  A gnoll shaman (D:6)
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:5)
  2 centaur skeletons (D:9)
  5 orc wizards
  5 iguanas
  Natasha (thrice) (D:3)
  3 hell rats (Lair:3)
  8 worker ants
  A hound zombie (D:9)
  A hound skeleton (D:6)
  13 gnolls
  A howler monkey skeleton (D:7)
  17 adders
  A river rat (Lair:3)
  4 shadow imps
  An ooze (D:3)
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  2 adder zombies
  2 worms
  2 dart slugs
  3 leopard geckos
  38 orcs
  9 giant cockroaches
  16 hobgoblins
  16 jackals
  14 kobolds
  8 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  7 bats
  10 frilled lizards
  14 goblins
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:9)
  10 rats
502 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A two-headed ogre (D:8)
  2 death yaks (Lair:6)
  4 wolves (Lair:3)
  A killer bee (Lair:3)
  A plant (Lair:6)
9 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An adder (D:5)
  13 fungi
  19 plants
33 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 544 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Wok VI the Barachi Berserker began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   203 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 21/25 MP: 2/2
   657 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 26/30 MP: 3/3
   989 | D:2      | Reached ** piety under Trog
  1246 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
  1538 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 37/38 MP: 4/4
  1884 | D:3      | Noticed Natasha
  1901 | D:3      | Killed Natasha
  1991 | D:3      | Noticed Natasha
  2005 | D:3      | Killed Natasha
  2005 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 34/43 MP: 5/5
  2110 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  2161 | D:3      | Noticed Natasha
  2167 | D:3      | Reached *** piety under Trog
  2215 | D:3      | Killed Natasha
  2551 | D:3      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  2559 | D:3      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
  2559 | D:3      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  2616 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 27/51 MP: 6/6
  3447 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  3464 | D:4      | Killed Sigmund
  3489 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 57/58 MP: 7/7
  3734 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4073 | D:4      | Reached **** piety under Trog
  4403 | D:4      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  4774 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4968 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 67/67 MP: 8/8
  4993 | D:5      | Found Qirphi Cua's Food Emporium.
  5276 | D:5      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
  5339 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
  5350 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5630 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  5650 | D:5      | Killed Pikel
  5834 | D:5      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  5971 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 75/75 MP: 9/9
  6456 | D:6      | Noticed Menkaure
  6477 | D:6      | Killed Menkaure
  6527 | D:6      | Found a glowing drain.
  6532 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  6957 | D:6      | Reached ***** piety under Trog
  7134 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  7361 | D:6      | Noticed Eustachio
  7384 | D:6      | Killed Eustachio
  8032 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 79/83 MP: 10/10
  8161 | D:7      | Received a gift from Trog
  8356 | D:8      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  8376 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  8411 | D:8      | Reached skill level 2 in Shields
  8606 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  8656 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  8656 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
  8656 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  8656 | D:8      | Reached skill level 3 in Shields
  9155 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  9164 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  9164 | D:8      | Reached skill level 4 in Shields
  9254 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  9333 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  9346 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  9346 | D:8      | Reached skill level 6 in Shields
  9603 | D:8      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 89/89 MP: 3/11
  9684 | D:8      | Got an encrusted dagger
  9685 | D:8      | Identified the +5 dagger "Lamagh" {elec, +Inv MR+} (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  9721 | D:8      | Found Juxtul's Gadget Shoppe.
  9735 | D:8      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  9752 | D:8      | Reached skill level 7 in Shields
  9923 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  9973 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Shields
 10144 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 10552 | D:9      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 10987 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11065 | D:10     | Got a faintly glowing ring mail
 11076 | D:10     | Identified the +7 ring mail of Jausm {Str+3 Int-2 Dex+2} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 11152 | D:10     | Reached skill level 9 in Shields
 11195 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11207 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11214 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 11768 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 11907 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes. [potion of mutation]
 11907 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation]
 11907 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You are robust. (+10% HP) [potion of mutation]
 11907 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You have large cloven feet. [potion of mutation]
 11910 | Lair:1   | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 12022 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 11 in Shields
 12092 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes. [potion of mutation]
 12092 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation]
 12092 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: You are robust. (+10% HP) [potion of mutation]
 12092 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: You have large cloven feet. [potion of mutation]
 12092 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: Potions are less effective at restoring your health. [potion of mutation]
 12092 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands. [potion of mutation]
 12092 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You have very sharp teeth. [potion of mutation]
 12093 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: You have very sharp teeth. [potion of mutation]
 12093 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: Potions are less effective at restoring your health. [potion of mutation]
 12093 | Lair:1   | Lost mutation: You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands. [potion of mutation]
 12093 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [potion of mutation]
 12093 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of mutation]
 12539 | Lair:2   | Noticed a catoblepas
 12564 | Lair:2   | Killed a catoblepas
 12740 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 12 in Shields
 12807 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 88/96 MP: 4/12
 13285 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 13382 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Slings
 13382 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 13 in Shields
 14421 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 14 in Shields
 15090 | Lair:3   | Gained mutation: You can hop longer distances. [Barachi growth]
 15090 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 101/101 MP: 4/13
 15091 | Lair:3   | Reached ****** piety under Trog
 15170 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
 15363 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 15876 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 16030 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 16067 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 16 in Shields
 16654 | Lair:4   | Got a scorched pewter ring
 17058 | Lair:5   | Noticed Urug
 17082 | Lair:5   | Killed Urug
 17086 | Lair:5   | Identified the ring "Jiepisou" {Str-3 Int+4 Dex+7 Stlth-} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 17219 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 17654 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 17687 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 17901 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 18341 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 108/111 MP: 4/14
 18519 | Lair:6   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 18526 | Lair:6   | Got a jewelled hat
 18532 | Lair:6   | Identified the +4 hat "Lienuseg" {Regen+ Str+9 Dex-3 Slay-6} (You acquired it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------+-----
Long Blades    |  4     5     6  7  9 11 13 14             | 14,0
Fighting       |     4        5  6  7  8  9          10    | 10,7
Shields        |                             6 12 14 16    | 16,1
Slings         |                             3     7  8    |  8,1
Throwing       |                             3             |  3,5
Dodging        |                                      6  7 |  7,3
Armour         |                                      3  4 |  4,1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Falchion          |   122 |   156 |   362 |    35 |    64 ||   739
       Unarmed           |       |    16 |       |       |       ||    16
       Demon blade       |       |       |       |   737 |   438 ||  1175
       Headbutt          |       |       |       |   109 |   129 ||   238
       Kick              |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |       |       |       |    14 ||    14
Throw: Javelin           |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
       Stone             |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Tomahawk          |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Invok: Berserk           |       |     3 |     4 |     1 |     1 ||     9
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |     2 |     2 ||     4
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Abil: Hop               |       |     1 |     1 |     7 |     3 ||    12
  Use: Scroll            |     3 |     3 |     3 |    21 |     2 ||    32
       Potion            |       |       |     2 |     4 |       ||     6
 Stab: Petrifying        |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Petrified         |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |     8 |    22 |    24 |    12 ||    69
       Bread ration      |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Armor: Ring mail         |    42 |    53 |    16 |   136 |    79 ||   326
       Animal skin       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Leather armour    |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Skin              |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Chain mail        |       |       |    91 |    43 |       ||   134
       Troll leather arm |       |       |       |    12 |       ||    12
       Steam dragon scal |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Dodge: Dodged            |    92 |    87 |    96 |   164 |    57 ||   496
Block: Shield            |       |       |    99 |   666 |   428 ||  1193
Rpst.: Falchion          |    31 |    32 |    33 |     1 |     1 ||    98
       Demon blade       |       |       |       |    46 |     9 ||    55




[d3k0]

Edit: I have also 6 enchant weapon scrolls, I was planning to wait for a branded greatsling to use them (a +8 greatsling of anything is quite good).
I could also wait for non-antimagic demon blade / double sword (afaik, antimagic is good against casters but it has lower damage of the other brands).

[bel]

The +9 str does not compensate for the -6 slay, especially with a one-handed weapon. You should remove that hat.

You can check the damage you do by using fsim. Crawl's damage formulae are too insane to give any short answer to the question of "is +9 str enough to compensate for -6 slay?" without doing simulations.

[d3k0]

Thank you

[luckless]

You can check the damage you do by using fsim. Crawl's damage formulae are too insane to give any short answer to the question of "is +9 str enough to compensate for -6 slay?" without doing simulations.

that's a little strong. because base weapon damage, Str, and skill all stack multiplicatively, with slaying added on top of them, it's possible to come up with some general rules of thumb. I use:

--) with a one-handed weapon and Fighting & weapon skills ≈ 14, 1 Str ≈ 1/2 slaying
--) with a normal two-handed weapon, and Fighting & weapon skills ≈ 20, 1 Str ≈ 2/3 slaying
--) with a top-end two-handed weapon, and Fighting & weapon skills = 27, 1 Str ≈ 1 slaying

so, if not for your shields investment, I'd have considered keeping the hat around for late game if you don't find anything better. but with a demon blade the hat would be bad even at max skill.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Does it apply to characters with Str 5 and Str 30 in the same way?
Does it apply to quickblade of electro and vorpal GSC in the same way?
I believe both answers are no, so bel is correct IMHO.

[tasonir]

While I agree that the 9 str won't make up for -6 slay with a 1h weapon, that doesn't mean he can't use the hat. A +4 hat with regen is amazing. With the -3 dex and the lowered damage once you throw in the strength and slaying, it's decent. You can probably find better eventually, but it's better than wearing nothing, imho.