YAD - this hunting sling was too strong


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Zot Zealot

Posts: 920

Joined: Monday, 15th April 2013, 15:10

Location: Augsburg, Germany

Post Thursday, 8th June 2017, 17:29

YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

Joseph killed my octopode with a hunting sling.

  Code:
599 Turgon the Sneak (level 7, -5/46 HPs)
             Began as an Octopode Wanderer on June 8, 2017.
             Was an Initiate of Ashenzari.
             Slain by Joseph
             ... wielding a cursed -1 hunting sling
              (8 damage)
             ... on level 7 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:26:27 (2158 turns).

Joseph hits you with a hunting sling.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You closely miss Joseph.
Joseph is moderately wounded.
Joseph hits you but does no damage.
You thump Joseph!
Joseph is heavily wounded.
You feel less wooden.
Joseph closely misses you.
You closely miss Joseph. Your grab misses Joseph. You squeeze Joseph.
Joseph is heavily wounded.
Joseph hits you with a hunting sling!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You hit Joseph. Your grab misses Joseph.
Joseph is heavily wounded.
Joseph hits you with a hunting sling.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You aren't carrying any potions.
You closely miss Joseph. You grab Joseph.
Joseph is heavily wounded.
You constrict Joseph. Joseph hits you with a hunting sling!
You die...

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5809

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Thursday, 8th June 2017, 19:04

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

What's even more impressive than him killing you with a sling, is that he *bashed you to death with it* If he'd just shot you with it that would've been a pretty normal death, this is kind of hilarious.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Tuesday, 13th June 2017, 01:57

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

You feel less wooden.

Not to mention he was in tree form, with bonus AC and health, until a few turns before he died. Joseph smashed a literal tree until it reached "Low hit point warning" levels with nothing but an empty sling. Aka, a stick with a stretchy band. Go Joseph!
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Zot Zealot

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Joined: Monday, 15th April 2013, 15:10

Location: Augsburg, Germany

Post Tuesday, 13th June 2017, 03:49

tasonir wrote:Not to mention he was in tree form, with bonus AC and health [...]

Right. When I suddenly saw joseph I quaffed unid' potions, hoping to get heal wounds, and one of the potions was lignification. And then joseph came and started hitting me with his sling. Strange game ending!
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Temple Termagant

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Joined: Monday, 12th June 2017, 18:59

Location: Russia

Post Tuesday, 13th June 2017, 10:25

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

It's very funny :)
In such cases, I usually think "well, one more hit and I'll kill this bad guy".
It's usually my last thought before I die
Forgive me for any mistakes, English is not my native language :roll:
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Blades Runner

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Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Tuesday, 13th June 2017, 11:35

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

Now what exactly is the game mechanic that caused Joe to do that? Is it that the AI always chooses to bash you with whatever they have in their hands when in melee range, even a cursed -1 sling? Or did he just run out of bullets? Not that it didn't work out well for the AI this time...
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Tomb Titivator

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Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Sunday, 18th June 2017, 10:35

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

Majang wrote:Now what exactly is the game mechanic that caused Joe to do that? Is it that the AI always chooses to bash you with whatever they have in their hands when in melee range, even a cursed -1 sling? Or did he just run out of bullets? Not that it didn't work out well for the AI this time...

I guess it's a cursed sling, so he couldn't take it off and put on a regular weapon even if he had one. (Generally except for a few "archer" mobs, they would switch to melee weapons once adjacent if they could.) That is, assuming cursed weapons work the same way for mobs as they do for players.

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Zot Zealot

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Joined: Monday, 15th April 2013, 15:10

Location: Augsburg, Germany

Post Sunday, 18th June 2017, 11:48

stoneychips wrote:I guess it's a cursed sling, so he couldn't take it off and put on a regular weapon even if he had one.

Well, this was the point of the topic.

Joseph is dangerous when he shoots with his sling. But for hand-to-hand combat he will usually switch to his weapon - but he couldn't do it this time!

  Code:
Slain by Joseph
... wielding a cursed -1 hunting sling

So he clumsily hit me with his sling.

And what's even more noticeable that he was able to kill my char this way.
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Blades Runner

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Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Sunday, 18th June 2017, 17:39

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

I'd love to know whether Joe still had bullets to shoot at you. If so, this almost looks like a bug to me. Even in melee range the AI should prefer shooting over a bad melee weapon.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 18th June 2017, 22:20

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

It is definitely not a bug. If centaurs, Joseph, etc. continued shooting in melee range they would be much less interesting to fight, because there'd be no reason to close the distance with them.

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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5193

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Tuesday, 20th June 2017, 22:55

Re: YAD - this hunting sling was too strong

Majang wrote:I'd love to know whether Joe still had bullets to shoot at you. If so, this almost looks like a bug to me. Even in melee range the AI should prefer shooting over a bad melee weapon.

Sometimes in games it's better to have bad AI, because it opens up a tactic to the player that they can use to win the fight. In this case it's getting into melee range vs powerful ranged weapon threats like centaurs/joseph. They could be coded to just keep attacking, but then there's less counter play available to the player. If you really design the monster well, giving it this weakness lets you increase its power in other ways - say by adding more damage or health. It also makes ranged weapon monsters more different from ranged magic monsters, who always continue to use their spells while you're in melee range (although I'm not sure if the rate at which they cast goes down since they will make melee attacks some of the time).

And we do have monsters who are smart enough to keep using their ranged weapon in melee, they just have to be specifically flagged as archers to do that.

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