CIP DEFE: Which God?

[MainiacJoe]

I have a DEFE who has found a by D:4 a book shop, a potion shop, 2 food shops, and altars to Sif, Veh, and Chei. The books in the shop are: Fire (650), Maledictions (250), Misfortune (200), Conjurations (300), Callings (300), Necromancy (300), Unlife(650), Tempests (700), and two randart books: [Corpse Rot, Regen, Exc Wounds, Agony, Cigotuvi's] (829) and [Shock, Swift, Lightning Spire, Pois Cloud, and Delayed Fireball] (620).

I think my first book purchase should be Conjurations, for Searing Ray (better than Flame Tongue) and Battlesphere. Add in the Book of Fire, and perhaps that randart for Poisonous Cloud/Ignite Poison, and I have everything I need for a five-rune game right there. The necromancy books will support this with things like Regeneration, Animate Dead, and Corpse Rot.

What I'm wondering is which god to choose. Of the ones I know already, I don't feel ready to tackle Chei. Veh would give wizardry and range for conjurations, MP on kill, and likely Fire Storm eventually. With Sif, I could channel frequently since I don't really need to get to her book gifts to move beyond the starting book. Or maybe I ought to wait and get a god that helps me in the early game: Fedhas or Nemelex? I really don't know the best path to take here. Or even Gozag--I need money after all, and already have two food shops.

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.1 (tiles) character file.

Ivyimitwa the Nimble (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)   Turns: 6137, Time: 00:34:26

Health: 36/36      AC:  4    Str:  5    XL:     7   Next: 15%
Magic:  13/13      EV: 17    Int: 22    God:   
Gold:   123        SH:  0    Dex: 15    Spells: 4 memorised, 2 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +    b - +0 hunting sling
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    n - +1 robe
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    (no helmet)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Harm     .    (no gloves)
MR     .....                    f - +0 pair of boots
Stlth  ++........               (no amulet)
                                u - ring of see invisible
                                A - ring of protection from fire

@: no status effects
A: no striking features
a: no special abilities


You are on level 5 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 5 of its levels.

You have collected 123 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +2 mace of holy wrath
 b - a +0 hunting sling (weapon)
 w - a +0 trident
 H - a +0 flail
Missiles
 d - 13 stones (quivered)
 k - 109 arrows
 r - 12 poisoned needles
 t - 7 needles of sleeping
 y - 5 needles of confusion
 F - 8 poisoned javelins
Armour
 f - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 n - a +1 robe (worn)
Jewellery
 u - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
 A - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
Wands
 z - a wand of acid
Scrolls
 q - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 D - 2 scrolls of teleportation
Potions
 e - a potion of might
 h - 2 potions of haste
 i - a potion of cancellation
 l - a grey potion
 m - 2 fuming blue potions
 p - a fizzy yellow potion
 x - a potion of agility
 B - a sedimented black potion
 E - a potion of heal wounds
Books
 j - a book of Flames   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Flame Tongue                 Conjuration/Fire              1
    b - Throw Flame                  Conjuration/Fire              2
    c - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Sticky Flame                 Conjuration/Fire              4
    f - Fireball                     Conjuration/Fire              5
Comestibles
 c - 4 bread rations
 g - a slice of pizza
 o - 4 fruits
 G - 4 chunks of flesh


   Skills:
 - Level 8.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 3.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 4.0 Conjurations
 - Level 4.1 Fire Magic


You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      ###..        2%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ###...       4%          2    ##.....
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ###.....     10%         3    ###....
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ###.....     28%         4    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (5/15)           
Temple: D:4-7       

Altars:
Cheibriados
Sif Muna
Vehumet

Shops:
D:4 !%%:

Annotations:
D:3 flight sif book
D:4 exclusion: downstairs

Message History

Okay, then.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Ivyimitwa the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
As you read the scroll of identify, it crumbles to dust.
s - an uncursed amulet of harm
Drop what? 33/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop an uncursed amulet of harm.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
Your +2 mace of holy wrath stops glowing.
b - a +0 hunting sling (weapon)
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a mace
d - 13 stones (gained 1)
Things that are here:
a chain mail; a mace
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You see here an uncursed amulet of harm.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
Save game and exit?

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                 #...["..#
##################.......#
#..#..#..................#
#.....+..................#
#.....#..................#
#.....#..................#
#######..................#
    #.......######.[.....#
    #.......#    #########
    #.......#
    #.......#
    #.......#
    #o......###
  ............#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  An ogre (D:4)
  A howler monkey (D:4)
  An orc priest (D:5)
  3 orc wizards
  A centaur skeleton (D:4)
  Terence (D:3)
  3 worker ants
  2 iguanas (D:3)
  5 adders
  An ooze (D:4)
  A worm (D:3)
  4 dart slugs
  A leopard gecko (D:2)
  11 orcs
  4 ball pythons
  10 giant cockroaches
  6 goblins
  11 hobgoblins
  16 jackals
  10 bats
  6 frilled lizards
  A jackal skeleton (D:4)
  13 kobolds
  6 rats
119 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An orc wizard (D:3)
1 creature vanquished.

Grand Total: 120 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Ivyimitwa the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   203 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 6/8
   207 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
   837 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 6/9
   842 | D:1      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  1525 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 17/24 MP: 2/10
  2432 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
  2862 | D:3      | Noticed Terence
  3154 | D:3      | Killed Terence
  3154 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 22/28 MP: 0/11
  3466 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
  3469 | D:3      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  3472 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  3832 | D:3      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  4125 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  4315 | D:4      | Found Daejysatz's Food Shoppe.
  4373 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4633 | D:4      | Found Daygyff's Food Boutique.
  4638 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 9/12
  4651 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  5352 | D:4      | Found Zipoituci's Book Shoppe.
  5493 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
  5555 | D:4      | Found Zoiqoch's Distillery.
  5631 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 8/13
  5793 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5997 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 |
---------------+----------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  2  3  4             |  4.0
Fire Magic     |           4          |  4.1
Dodging        |           3  5  7  8 |  8.0
Stealth        |                      |  2.4
Spellcasting   |                      |  3.0

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Whip              |    15 |       |       ||    15
       Hand axe          |     8 |       |       ||     8
       Trident           |       |     4 |       ||     4
 Fire: Hunting sling     |     7 |   223 |     3 ||   233
Throw: Stone             |     6 |       |       ||     6
       Javelin           |       |     3 |       ||     3
 Cast: Flame Tongue      |    58 |    73 |    13 ||   144
       Throw Flame       |    12 |    12 |     5 ||    29
       Conjure Flame     |     1 |    11 |       ||    12
       Sticky Flame      |       |     4 |       ||     4
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |     5 |     4 ||    11
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |    10 |     2 ||    14
       Meat ration       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Armor: Robe              |     6 |    10 |     3 ||    19
Dodge: Dodged            |    42 |    77 |    21 ||   140

[duvessa]

Kiku and Fedhas are optimal. Gozag is okay. Vehumet and Sif are objectively weak, but can be fun.

[papilio]

Good: vehumet
Okay: gozag, sif, kiku, ashenzari
Out of concept: most of other gods
Trollish: dithmenos(hates fire magic), trog

[Airwolf]

Kiku and Fedhas are optimal. Gozag is okay. Vehumet and Sif are objectively weak, but can be fun.

So what's optimal in this situation, with Vehumet, Sif, and Chei altars available, and others not yet found?

[Siegurt]

Kiku and Fedhas are optimal. Gozag is okay. Vehumet and Sif are objectively weak, but can be fun.

So what's optimal in this situation, with Vehumet, Sif, and Chei altars available, and others not yet found?

I would go with sif, functionally unlimited mp isn't terrible when you have access to a FE book, and you might get access to some other spells that will help you be less one dimensional.

Or if i felt like i was really close to the temple i might just hold off.

[stickyfingers]

But then FE's best spells are very MP-efficient, so you don't need that too much. I'd wait for Kiku.

[MainiacJoe]

I think my main concern is, my midgame seems promising given the book shop, yet I need to survive long enough to accumulate the gold to buy those books. So which god helps me survive through Lair? Sif & Veh aren't big on panic buttons as far as I can tell, and I don't need their gifts as much as I typically would.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Then play Ru for panic button, should be fun.

[NhorianScum]

I think my main concern is, my midgame seems promising given the book shop, yet I need to survive long enough to accumulate the gold to buy those books. So which god helps me survive through Lair? Sif & Veh aren't big on panic buttons as far as I can tell, and I don't need their gifts as much as I typically would.

FE has a 100% free midgame regardless of god. Flame clouds/fireball are ridiculously strong all game long.

Sif is a pretty easy snag here. Divine energy is a pretty great panic button and summons + book of fire is enough to win a 3 rune.

Extended options are like, sif/mak/ash/kiku.

[MainiacJoe]

WRT Kiku, I am concerned that derived undead and conjure flame don't go well together. I had a Wz^Yred recently that had trouble with servants walking into flames and dying. Is this a legit reservation or overblown?

[Siegurt]

WRT Kiku, I am concerned that derived undead and conjure flame don't go well together. I had a Wz^Yred recently that had trouble with servants walking into flames and dying. Is this a legit reservation or overblown?

FE ^kiku is super secret tech, inner flame your undead, they become awesome walking bombs of exploding death.

Yes, they will walk willy nilly into flame clouds, but you can also use tr to make them not do that, or you can place your clouds cleverly, or you can let them die, it is all fine and dandy.

Really it is a good excersize in paying attention to how undead move.

[stickyfingers]

Another "secret tech" is that a monster in a flame cloud will happily enter miasma from corpse rot. Strong monsters can normally enter the former, but will never enter the latter in normal circumstances.

[Psieye]

I prefer to use meph cloud to get monsters to walk into corpse rot. Even if they don't choke on the meph this turn, the AI realises it's in a 'bad' cloud already so walks into the next 'bad' cloud to get closer to you.

[MainiacJoe]

While exploring downwards to see which other gods might ne nearby, I found this on the next floor down:

  Code:

the +10 dagger of Quantum Leap {pain, Str-2 Int+2 SInv}


If Kiku was on the list before, now it's a clear top choice. I can wait for a nice weapon class for pain branding. This dagger leaves me at Str 3, but I figure I have time to address that before I find monsters that can drain strength.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Dagger is among the best weapon classes for pain branding (only quickblade is faster and you can still stab at min delay without weapon swapping with 10 levels in short blades thanks to Kiku's allies) and here you have a +10 dagger. Better get Necronomicon IMHO, DE will appreciate it

[MainiacJoe]

Dagger is among the best weapon classes for pain branding (only quickblade is faster and you can still stab at min delay without weapon swapping with 10 levels in short blades thanks to Kiku's allies) and here you have a +10 dagger. Better get Necronomicon IMHO, DE will appreciate it

Well we'll cross that bridge if I survive that long!

[MainiacJoe]

Ready to enter Lair. Building up melee skills while I wait to see what Kiku's second book will contain. So far nothing for making derived undead, though I do hove books in that shop for that if I need them.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.1 (tiles) character file.

Ivyimitwa the Nimble (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)  Turns: 14577, Time: 01:24:00

Health: 60/60      AC:  9    Str:  3    XL:     10   Next: 77%
Magic:  22/22      EV: 20    Int: 26    God:    Kikubaaqudgha [*.....]
Gold:   162        SH:  0    Dex: 15    Spells: 7 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +    a - +10 dagger {pain, Str-2 Int+2 SInv}
rCold  . . .      Gourm    +    X - +2 robe {MR+}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    (no helmet)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    K - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Harm     .    n - +0 pair of gloves
MR     ++...                    f - +2 pair of boots
Stlth  ++........               T - amulet of the gourmand
                                u - ring of see invisible
                                A - ring of protection from fire

@: no status effects
A: no striking features
a: Receive Corpses, Renounce Religion


You are on level 9 of the Dungeon.
You worship Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha is aware of your devotion.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 10 of its levels.

You have collected 349 gold pieces.
You have spent 187 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +10 dagger of Quantum Leap (weapon) {pain, Str-2 Int+2 SInv}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It affects your strength (-2).
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It lets you see invisible.
 b - a +0 hunting sling
 c - a +2 quarterstaff of draining
 w - a +2 mace of holy wrath
 Y - a +1 scimitar of flaming
 Z - a +5 scimitar of freezing
Missiles
 d - 99 stones
 F - 7 poisoned javelins (quivered)
 L - 20 sling bullets
 O - 2 throwing nets {=f}
 S - 10 javelins
Armour
 f - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 n - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 K - a +0 cloak (worn)
 X - a +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
Jewellery
 u - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
 A - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
 T - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Wands
 z - a wand of acid
 G - a wand of flame
 H - a wand of paralysis {recharged}
 P - a wand of random effects
Scrolls
 q - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 r - a scroll of recharging
 v - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 D - 6 scrolls of teleportation
 M - a scroll of blinking
Potions
 e - a potion of might
 h - 2 potions of haste
 i - 2 potions of cancellation
 l - 2 potions of brilliance
 m - 3 potions of invisibility
 p - 2 fizzy yellow potions
 s - a viscous brown potion
 x - 2 potions of agility
 B - 3 potions of curing
 C - 3 emerald potions
 E - 3 potions of heal wounds
 N - a lumpy dark potion
Books
 j - a book of Flames   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Flame Tongue                 Conjuration/Fire              1
    b - Throw Flame                  Conjuration/Fire              2
    c - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Sticky Flame                 Conjuration/Fire              4
    f - Fireball                     Conjuration/Fire              5
 W - Kikubaaqudgha's Catalogue of Unholy Secrets
   (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Pain                         Necromancy                    1
    b - Corpse Rot                   Necromancy                    2
    c - Sublimation of Blood         Necromancy                    2
    d - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    e - Control Undead               Necromancy                    4
Comestibles
 g - a slice of pizza
 o - 5 fruits
 I - 4 meat rations
 Q - 2 beef jerkies
 R - 4 bread rations


   Skills:
 + Level 6.1 Fighting
 + Level 0.0 Short Blades
 - Level 11.1 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 7.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 8.0 Conjurations
 - Level 4.1 Necromancy
 - Level 8.0 Fire Magic


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          3    None
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     2%          4    ###....
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ######....   10%         5    #####..
f - Corpse Rot            Necr           N/A          1%          2    None
g - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ###.......   10%         3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/15)             Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (0/6) D:9
   Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 !%%:   D:5 [*   D:6 *   D:8 *   D:9 [

Annotations:
D:3 flight sif book
D:4 exclusion: downstairs
D:6 exclusion: centaur

Message History

You open the door.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You start putting on your armour.
You continue putting on your +0 pair of gloves. x4
You finish putting on your +0 pair of gloves.
Done exploring.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Ivyimitwa the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist.
Kikubaaqudgha says: Spread unending torment and darkness!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Things that are here:
17 arrows; an uncursed shortbow; a centaur skeleton
There is a staircase to the Lair here.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Ivyimitwa the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist.
Kikubaaqudgha says: Spread unending torment and darkness!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Saving game... please wait.

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There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Erica (D:8)
  A centaur zombie (D:9)
  Psyche (D:8)
  A two-headed ogre (D:9)
  A hippogriff (D:8)
  Eustachio (D:5)
  A wraith (D:9)
  9 yaks
  3 wargs
  2 orc warriors
  2 black bears (D:8)
  3 ice beasts
  A sky beast (D:8)
  A phantom (D:8)
  4 ogres
  2 centaurs
  5 bullfrogs
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:8)
  A scorpion (D:6)
  2 howler monkeys
  7 wights
  4 crimson imps
  A jelly (D:6)
  5 orc priests
  7 orc wizards
  2 centaur skeletons
  4 hounds
  Terence (D:3)
  8 worker ants
  5 iguanas
  A hound skeleton (D:5)
  A howler monkey zombie (D:6)
  4 gnolls (D:5)
  8 adders
  4 shadow imps
  An ooze (D:4)
  An adder skeleton (D:5)
  An adder zombie (D:9)
  2 worms
  4 dart slugs
  2 leopard geckos
  28 orcs
  6 ball pythons
  14 giant cockroaches
  6 goblins
  11 hobgoblins
  16 jackals
  2 quokkas
  10 bats
  6 frilled lizards
  A jackal skeleton (D:4)
  A jackal zombie (D:8)
  13 kobolds
  6 rats
236 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An orc wizard (D:3)
1 creature vanquished.

Grand Total: 237 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Ivyimitwa the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   203 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 6/8
   207 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
   837 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 6/9
   842 | D:1      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  1525 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 17/24 MP: 2/10
  2432 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
  2862 | D:3      | Noticed Terence
  3154 | D:3      | Killed Terence
  3154 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 22/28 MP: 0/11
  3466 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
  3469 | D:3      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  3472 | D:3      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  3832 | D:3      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  4125 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  4315 | D:4      | Found Daejysatz's Food Shoppe.
  4373 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4633 | D:4      | Found Daygyff's Food Boutique.
  4638 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 9/12
  4651 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  5352 | D:4      | Found Zipoituci's Book Shoppe.
  5493 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
  5555 | D:4      | Found Zoiqoch's Distillery.
  5631 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 8/13
  5793 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5997 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
  6362 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  6682 | D:5      | Found Tiengo's Antique Armour Shoppe.
  6695 | D:5      | Bought a cloak for 94 gold pieces
  6732 | D:5      | Got a smoking dagger
  6733 | D:5      | Identified the +10 dagger of Quantum Leap {pain, Str-2 Int+2 SInv} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  7155 | D:5      | Found Dainnapeth's General Store.
  7163 | D:5      | Bought a potion of curing for 30 gold pieces
  7365 | D:6      | Noticed Eustachio
  7381 | D:5      | Killed Eustachio
  7381 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  7381 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 25/41 MP: 5/14
  7968 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  8184 | D:6      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  8345 | D:6      | Found Uzubyfu's General Store.
  8365 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8384 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  8444 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha
  8851 | D:6      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  8861 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  8967 | D:6      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
 10063 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 53/53 MP: 9/17
 10103 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 11126 | D:8      | Noticed Psyche
 11151 | D:8      | Found Koujoull's Assorted Antiques.
 11178 | D:8      | Reached * piety under Kikubaaqudgha
 11178 | D:8      | Identified Kikubaaqudgha's Catalogue of Unholy Secrets (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 11178 | D:8      | Received a gift from Kikubaaqudgha
 11270 | D:8      | Noticed Erica
 11293 | D:8      | Killed Erica
 11293 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 11320 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 11526 | D:8      | Killed Psyche
 11666 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 12041 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 54/60 MP: 13/18
 12482 | D:8      | Learned a level 2 spell: Corpse Rot
 13521 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 13605 | D:9      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 13723 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 13937 | D:9      | Found Vatoff's Armour Emporium.
 13973 | D:9      | Bought a +0 pair of gloves for 63 gold pieces
 14059 | D:9      | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 14082 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 |
---------------+-------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |  2  3  4           6     7  8 |  8.0
Fire Magic     |           4        5  6     8 |  8.0
Dodging        |           3  5  7  8    11    | 11.1
Fighting       |                       4  6    |  6.1
Spellcasting   |                       4     7 |  7.0
Necromancy     |                             4 |  4.1
Stealth        |                               |  2.4

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Whip              |    15 |       |       |       ||    15
       Hand axe          |     8 |       |       |       ||     8
       Trident           |       |     4 |       |       ||     4
       Mace              |       |       |    58 |     3 ||    61
       Dagger            |       |       |    46 |    23 ||    69
       Quarterstaff      |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Fire: Hunting sling     |     7 |   223 |   235 |    24 ||   489
Throw: Stone             |     6 |       |       |       ||     6
       Javelin           |       |     3 |     7 |     4 ||    14
 Cast: Flame Tongue      |    58 |    73 |   148 |    55 ||   334
       Throw Flame       |    12 |    12 |     5 |     3 ||    32
       Conjure Flame     |     1 |    11 |    26 |     9 ||    47
       Sticky Flame      |       |     4 |    23 |    19 ||    46
       Fireball          |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
       Corpse Rot        |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |     5 |     7 |     5 ||    19
       Potion            |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Paralysed         |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
       Invisible         |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |    10 |    20 |    19 ||    51
       Meat ration       |       |     1 |     1 |       ||     2
       Fruit             |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Armor: Robe              |     6 |    10 |    40 |    10 ||    66
Dodge: Dodged            |    42 |    77 |   223 |    72 ||   414



[Airwolf]

Pain dagger is an excellent weapon, especially for DE with good SB and Stealth apts and -HP so strong incentive to use allies.

Pain branding anything other than a quick blade at this point is mostly just wasted XP to train up another weapon, and with the potential loss of access to the Necronomicon.

You'll eventually need something to kill strong pain-resistant monsters like demons, OoFs, etc. Simulacrum, Iron Shot, OoD, long blade, etc. If it's a melee weapon, ideally it would not be pain branded.