DgEE: which third rune?

[Odds]

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0-11-g3fc08b3 (webtiles) character file.

Odds the Earth Mage (Demigod Earth Elementalist)   Turns: 99816, Time: 06:14:55

Health: 195/199    AC: 33    Str: 21    XL:     23   Next: 65%
Magic:  44/56      EV: 21    Int: 25    God:   
Gold:   930        SH: 14    Dex: 18    Spells: 12 memorised, 5 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    w - staff of earth
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    h - +7 swamp dragon scales
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    Y - +3 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    t - +1 helmet
rElec  .          Reflect  +    D - +2 cloak {rPois}
rCorr  .          Harm     .    k - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR     +++..                    H - +2 pair of boots
Stlth  +.........               c - amulet of Dishonesty {Reflect rN+ Str+3 SH+4}
                                M - ring of protection from magic
                                p - ring of magical power

@: repel missiles
A: dopey 1, high mp 1
a: no special abilities
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, gossamer


You are on level 4 of the Depths.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 43 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 2 times.

You have collected 4926 gold pieces.
You have spent 3996 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 h - +7 swamp dragon scales (worn)
 k - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 t - a +1 helmet (worn)
 B - a +2 cloak
 D - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 H - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 T - a +0 buckler of cold resistance
 Y - a +3 buckler of protection (worn)
Magical Staves
 w - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
Jewellery
 c - the amulet of Dishonesty (around neck) {Reflect rN+ Str+3 SH+4}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Vaults)   
   
   [amulet of reflection]
   
   It shields you and reflects attacks.
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your SH (+4).
 p - a ring of magical power (left hand)
 y - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration
 M - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 U - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 Z - a +4 ring of intelligence
Wands
 b - a wand of heal wounds (1/9)
 n - a wand of iceblast
 q - a wand of random effects
 v - a wand of teleportation (1/9)
 G - a wand of digging (2/24)
 O - a wand of disintegration (7/24)
 Q - a wand of digging
 R - a wand of teleportation
 S - a wand of hasting (3/9)
 V - a wand of teleportation (3/9)
Scrolls
 a - 7 scrolls of amnesia
 e - 2 scrolls of blinking
 g - 19 scrolls of remove curse
 j - 2 scrolls of identify
 o - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 I - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 J - 2 scrolls of fog
 K - 10 scrolls of recharging
 L - 5 scrolls of enchant weapon
 P - a scroll of silence
 W - 3 scrolls of fear
 X - 2 scrolls of summoning
Potions
 f - 3 potions of cure mutation
 i - 10 potions of curing
 l - 8 potions of haste
 m - 13 potions of flight
 r - 3 potions of resistance
 x - 8 potions of cancellation
 z - 3 potions of invisibility
 A - 12 potions of brilliance
 C - 2 potions of might
 E - 9 potions of agility
 N - 2 potions of magic
Books
 F - a book of Power   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Fulminant Prism              Conjuration/Hexes             4
    b - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast    Conjuration                   4
    c - Venom Bolt                   Conjuration/Poison            5
    d - Bolt of Magma                Conjuration/Fire/Earth        5
    e - Iron Shot                    Conjuration/Earth             6
    f - Orb of Destruction           Conjuration                   7
    g - Spellforged Servitor         Conjuration/Summoning         7
Comestibles
 d - 19 bread rations
 u - 8 meat rations


   Skills:
 + Level 15.2 Fighting
   Level 10.3 Short Blades
 - Level 12.9 Staves
 + Level 11.3 Armour
 + Level 13.7 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 - Level 9.3 Shields
 - Level 14.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 10.6 Conjurations
 * Level 6.8 Charms
 - Level 3.0 Necromancy
 - Level 3.3 Translocations
 - Level 9.0 Transmutations
 - Level 4.4 Fire Magic
   Level 2.6 Ice Magic
 * Level 6.4 Air Magic
 - Level 17.6 Earth Magic
 - Level 8.8 Evocations


You have 5 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Apportation           Tloc           ####......   1%          1    None
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
c - Petrify               Tmut/Erth      #######.     1%          4    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   1%          5    ##.....
e - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   52%         6    ####...
f - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      #######..    2%          6    ####...
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
i - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   1%          6    ####...
j - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #####...     1%          3    None
m - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    ##.....
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #####.....   1%          3    None
s - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:8
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:4       Spider (4/4) Lair:3          Orc (2/2) D:10
    Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (4/5) D:13          Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2
 Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (0/5) Depths:5   
 Slime: Lair:5-6   

Shops:
D:15 :   Orc:2 ?(*[}   Elf:1 *   Elf:3 (   Vaults:1 !   Vaults:3 (=*
Depths:3 :

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:3
Trove: D:11 (give +8 demon trident)

Annotations:
D:13 2 runed doors
Lair:1 exclusion: oklob plant
Lair:6 spsoon's ghost, journeyman GrGl
Elf:2 5 runed doors
Depths:5 2 runed doors


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have an increased reservoir of magic. (+10% MP)
You are dopey. (Int -2)


Message History

You hit the tentacled starspawn. You crush the tentacled starspawn!
The tentacled starspawn is severely damaged.
You hit the tentacled starspawn. You crush the tentacled starspawn!
The tentacled starspawn is almost destroyed.
Tentacles burst from the starspawn's body!
2 starspawn tentacles come into view.
You hit the tentacled starspawn.
You destroy the tentacled starspawn!
The starspawn's tentacles wither and die.
The substance of the Abyss twists violently, and a gateway leading out appears!
You pass through the gate.
Welcome back to the Depths!
There is a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss here.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
You start resting.
A yaktaur comes into view.
You start resting.
An iron dragon comes into view.

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There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  2 ancient liches
  Mennas (Depths:5)
  2 juggernauts
  A caustic shrike (Depths:3)
  3 golden dragons
  3 bone dragons
  2 tentacled monstrosities (Depths:3)
  Asterion (Elf:1)
  3 titans (Depths:4)
  A deep elf blademaster (Elf:2)
  4 liches
  2 deep elf master archers (Elf:3)
  A sphinx (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A sphinx (Depths:1)
  2 tentacled starspawn (Abyss:1)
  Kirke (Elf:1)
  2 shadow dragons
  2 thorn hunters
  Agnes (Elf:1)
  Donald (Swamp:1)
  Roxanne (Swamp:2)
  The ghost of edwinsage the Impaler, an adept MfGl (Spider:2)
  5 tengu reavers
  A storm dragon (Depths:4)
  A fire giant (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  10 fire giants
  5 vault wardens
  11 frost giants
  5 deep elf sorcerers
  An iron dragon (Depths:3)
  An orc warlord (Vaults:4)
  A draconian knight (Depths:5)
  7 emperor scorpions
  A draconian scorcher (Depths:5)
  Louise (Depths:1)
  4 ghost moths
  7 deep elf elementalists
  Aizul (Elf:2)
  12 ironheart preservers
  A green draconian (Depths:5)
  4 spriggan defenders
  19 very ugly things
  19 stone giants
  2 vampire knights (Depths:3)
  6 entropy weavers
  A yellow draconian (Depths:5)
  10 deep elf demonologists
  A red draconian (Depths:5)
  A white draconian (Depths:5)
  6 deep elf annihilators
  18 spark wasps
  An ettin (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  14 ettins
  A blizzard demon (Depths:3)
  Josephine (D:11)
  A jiangshi (Vaults:2)
  6 deep elf death magi
  8 fire dragons
  15 yaktaur captains
  2 vault guards
  4 deep elf high priests
  14 ice dragons
  15 great orbs of eyes
  17 hydras
  6 rakshasas
  An ice dragon (shapeshifter) (Elf:3)
  A ghost crab (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  A ghost crab (Swamp:3)
  A catoblepas (Lair:6)
  6 spriggan air magi
  17 centaur warriors
  Erolcha (Orc:2)
  2 death knights
  5 alligators
  13 ogre magi
  10 deep troll earth magi
  11 dancing weapons
  A hell hog (Abyss:3)
  6 tengu warriors
  10 death yaks
  5 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  8 death scarabs (Spider:4)
  2 vampire magi (Depths:2)
  10 deep troll shamans
  7 spriggan berserkers
  11 hell knights
  Urug (D:13)
  26 deep elf knights
  A wretched star (Abyss:3)
  A titan skeleton (Depths:1)
  An anaconda zombie (Abyss:3)
  2 iron trolls
  3 spriggan druids
  A sixfirhy (Depths:3)
  A spatial maelstrom (Abyss:3)
  7 skeletal warriors
  3 flayed ghosts
  5 glowing orange brains
  34 deep trolls
  9 swamp dragons
  8 wizards
  8 hill giants
  15 deep elf archers
  3 unseen horrors
  3 phantasmal warriors
  6 spectral wolf spiders (Spider:4)
  A shambling mangrove (Swamp:3)
  A lindwurm (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  54 deep elf magi
  6 necromancers
  27 orb spiders
  21 ironbrand convokers
  A stone giant zombie (Depths:1)
  25 orc knights
  A fire giant zombie (Depths:4)
  38 ugly things
  A wolf spider zombie (Spider:4)
  A manticore (D:12)
  An orb spider (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  A frost giant zombie (Depths:4)
  5 orc sorcerers
  39 wolf spiders
  8 cyclopes
  A worldbinder (Abyss:1)
  A moth of wrath (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  A cyclops (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  A rust devil (Depths:3)
  10 elephants (Lair:6)
  5 moths of wrath
  A shadow dragon skeleton (Depths:4)
  2 fire giant skeletons
  An iron dragon skeleton (Depths:4)
  4 vault sentinels
  3 black mambas
  An eye of devastation (Abyss:1)
  2 torpor snails
  13 spiny frogs
  A guardian serpent (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  An orange demon (Depths:3)
  A smoke demon (Abyss:1)
  5 gargoyles
  A rime drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  Psyche (D:11)
  6 rime drakes
  4 komodo dragons
  2 spectral redbacks (Spider:4)
  2 yaktaurs (shapeshifter)
  74 yaktaurs
  17 demonic crawlers
  7 freezing wraiths
  A tormentor (Depths:4)
  A hellwing (Depths:3)
  An ancient zyme (Abyss:1)
  An entropy weaver simulacrum (Vaults:3)
  3 meliai (D:13)
  5 tengu conjurers
  48 jumping spiders
  A meliai (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  11 polar bears
  13 trolls
  34 hornets
  2 spectral jumping spiders (Spider:4)
  A hornet (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  3 spectral tarantellas (Spider:4)
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  7 bog bodies
  12 tyrant leeches
  22 two-headed ogres
  23 blink frogs
  10 hippogriffs
  An ettin zombie (Depths:1)
  A dream sheep (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  A raiju (Abyss:3)
  4 tarantella zombies (Spider:4)
  59 slime creatures
  3 jumping spider zombies (Spider:4)
  5 dream sheep
  A redback (shapeshifter) (Elf:3)
  38 tarantellas
  86 redbacks
  5 shadows
  10 air elementals
  A ynoxinul (Abyss:3)
  A yak (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  28 spriggans
  4 water elementals
  6 large abominations
  4 fire bats (Lair:4)
  5 wyverns
  A vampire (D:11)
  47 yaks
  9 wraiths
  A fire elemental (Depths:4)
  A human (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  17 humans
  A neqoxec (Abyss:3)
  Eustachio (D:6)
  3 chaos spawn (Abyss:3)
  A hog (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  5 basilisks
  2 steam dragons
  31 vampire mosquitoes
  4 hungry ghosts
  26 swamp worms
  A yaktaur simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  14 wargs
  3 mottled dragons
  A tengu zombie (Depths:2)
  9 insubstantial wisps
  3 soldier ants
  15 water moccasins
  A hell hound (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  6 porcupines
  6 small abominations (Abyss:3)
  59 orc warriors
  2 phantoms (D:8)
  A spectral hornet (Spider:4)
  5 swamp drakes
  12 black bears
  4 ice beasts
  An ice beast (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  5 sky beasts
  A black bear (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (Elf:3)
  2 eyes of draining
  A necrophage (D:11)
  65 ogres
  53 wolves
  29 centaurs
  21 boggarts
  A human skeleton (Vaults:3)
  18 crocodiles
  2 big kobolds
  A big kobold (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  18 bullfrogs
  2 gnoll sergeants
  6 earth elementals
  A wyvern zombie (D:14)
  6 scorpions
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:5)
  22 wights
  16 killer bees
  6 howler monkeys
  5 electric eels
  2 bullfrog zombies
  4 centaur zombies
  A quasit (D:15)
  7 crimson imps
  A lava snake (Lair:4)
  6 starcursed masses (Abyss:1)
  12 hounds
  4 jellies
  41 orc wizards
  36 orc priests
  4 bullfrog skeletons
  8 centaur skeletons
  An iron imp (Depths:2)
  4 iguanas
  Terence (D:2)
  12 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:12)
  A hound zombie (D:5)
  3 worker ant zombies
  13 adders
  9 gnolls
  A howler monkey skeleton (D:8)
  A shadow imp (D:10)
  3 white imps (Lair:5)
  2 ufetubi (Abyss:1)
  2 oozes
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  3 worms
  3 leopard geckos
  140 orcs
  2 ball pythons (D:3)
  3 giant cockroaches
  5 goblins
  2 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  7 quokkas
  3 bats
  2 frilled lizards
  14 kobolds
  A leopard gecko skeleton (D:4)
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  13 rats
  A spectral orc (D:5)
  9 fungi
  A lurking horror (Abyss:3)
  3 plants
  2 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
2424 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A stone giant (Vaults:3)
  A vampire knight (Depths:3)
  2 yaktaur captains (Vaults:3)
  A hell hog (Abyss:3)
  A deep elf knight (Elf:3)
  An orb spider (Spider:2)
  A wolf spider (Spider:3)
  A vault sentinel (Vaults:4)
  5 yaktaurs
  A tarantella (Spider:2)
  2 humans (Elf:1)
  A worker ant (D:12)
  46 fungi
  16 plants
  4 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
84 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2508 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Odds the Demigod Earth Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 5/5
   384 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Earth Magic
   564 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/20 MP: 5/7
   751 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  1794 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 26/26 MP: 8/8
  1883 | D:2      | Found a faded altar of an unknown god.
  1912 | D:2      | Killed Terence
  2086 | D:2      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  2086 | D:2      | Found a faded altar of an unknown god.
  2091 | D:2      | Found a faded altar of an unknown god.
  2207 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 34/34 MP: 10/10
  2224 | D:3      | Learned a level 3 spell: Stone Arrow
  2299 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Earth Magic
  2336 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  2368 | D:3      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  2743 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 37/40 MP: 11/11
  2888 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  2929 | D:4      | Learned a level 4 spell: Petrify
  2985 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
  2991 | D:4      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
  3167 | D:4      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  3209 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3446 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Transmutations
  3446 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 44/47 MP: 13/13
  3505 | D:5      | Noticed a water moccasin
  3513 | D:5      | Killed a water moccasin
  3513 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
  3792 | D:5      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  4168 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 55/55 MP: 14/14
  4265 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  4420 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  4487 | D:6      | Noticed Eustachio
  4516 | D:6      | Killed Eustachio
  4550 | D:6      | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
  4770 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Earth Magic
  5001 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 63/63 MP: 17/17
  5081 | D:7      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  5087 | D:7      | Got a crude trident
  5088 | D:7      | Identified the +10 trident "Sarcophage" {antimagic, rPois Int+7 SInv Stlth-} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
  5389 | D:7      | Reached skill level 7 in Earth Magic
  5554 | D:7      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5700 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  5863 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  6138 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 71/71 MP: 19/19
  6412 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Earth Magic
  6442 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  6457 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  6644 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  7039 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Earth Magic
  7078 | D:8      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
  7339 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 81/81 MP: 20/22
  7560 | D:9      | Got a faintly glowing scale mail
  7626 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  8212 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  8444 | Lair:1   | Noticed a black mamba
  8450 | Lair:1   | Killed a black mamba
  8810 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
  9001 | Lair:1   | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
  9001 | Lair:1   | Noticed an oklob plant
  9402 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 91/91 MP: 20/24
 10613 | Lair:2   | Noticed a death yak
 10624 | Lair:2   | Killed a death yak
 10791 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 11 in Earth Magic
 11469 | Lair:2   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 11473 | Lair:2   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 11473 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
 11533 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
 11645 | Lair:2   | Got a twisted ring mail
 11656 | Lair:2   | Identified the cursed +1 ring mail of Insecurity {rPois Str+4} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
 12126 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 101/101 MP: 21/27
 12875 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
 13861 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 14279 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 12 in Earth Magic
 14379 | Lair:4   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 14389 | Lair:4   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 14549 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 15629 | Lair:5   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 15653 | Lair:5   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 15842 | Lair:5   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 15852 | Lair:5   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 15852 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 108/108 MP: 19/29
 16298 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
 17196 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 17724 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 17898 | Lair:6   | Noticed spsoon's ghost (journeyman GrGl)
 19370 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
 19809 | Lair:6   | Upgraded the game from 0.19.0-7-g529c597 to 0.19.0-9-gfd783f2
 20111 | Lair:6   | Identified the cursed +0 scale mail of the Tortoise {*Corrode +Fly Str+4 SInv} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 20224 | Lair:6   | Identified the Compendium of the Frostbite
 20230 | Lair:6   | Learned a level 3 spell: Ozocubu's Armour
 20279 | Lair:6   | Noticed an acid blob
 20485 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 20649 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
 20998 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 22090 | D:10     | Reached XP level 14. HP: 116/116 MP: 29/31
 22262 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 22722 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 22724 | Orc:1    | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 7 turns
 23238 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 13 in Earth Magic
 23342 | Orc:1    | Found a frozen archway.
 23668 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 24499 | Orc:2    | Found Tyfuwyh's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 24506 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of blinking for 112 gold pieces
 24506 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 24506 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 24506 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 24506 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 26254 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 26671 | Orc:2    | Found Refof's Gadget Shoppe.
 26672 | Orc:2    | Found Pacutune's General Store.
 26672 | Orc:2    | Found Ijiomyd's Armour Shoppe.
 26673 | Orc:2    | Found Gaffa's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 26682 | Orc:2    | Bought a +2 pair of gloves of strength for 301 gold pieces
 26694 | Orc:2    | Bought a wand of teleportation (2/9) for 288 gold pieces
 26928 | Orc:2    | Noticed Erolcha
 26930 | Orc:2    | Killed Erolcha
 26958 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 27888 | D:11     | Noticed Psyche
 27894 | D:11     | Killed Psyche
 28129 | D:11     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 28220 | D:11     | Noticed Josephine
 28255 | D:11     | Killed Josephine
 28493 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 30818 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 30818 | D:13     | Noticed Urug
 31665 | D:13     | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 31753 | D:13     | Killed Urug
 32050 | D:13     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 125/125 MP: 4/32
 33281 | D:13     | Found a large runed door.
 33282 | D:13     | Found a large runed door.
 33842 | D:14     | Reached skill level 14 in Earth Magic
 35105 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 35242 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 36044 | D:12     | Upgraded the game from 0.19.0-9-gfd783f2 to 0.19.0-11-g3fc08b3
 36529 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 37236 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 39625 | Spider:2 | Noticed edwinsage's ghost (adept MfGl)
 41302 | Spider:2 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 134/134 MP: 15/34
 43323 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 43684 | Spider:2 | Killed edwinsage's ghost
 45836 | Spider:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Spider Nest
 47621 | Spider:4 | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 50453 | Spider:4 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 116/144 MP: 13/36
 50645 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 15 in Earth Magic
 52077 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
 52386 | Spider:4 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 53297 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 54344 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Donald
 54367 | Swamp:1  | Killed Donald
 55063 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Roxanne
 55092 | Swamp:2  | Killed Roxanne
 55096 | Swamp:2  | Identified Roxanne's Papyrus of Stones (You took it off Roxanne on level 2 of the Swamp)
 55107 | Swamp:2  | Learned a level 6 spell: Statue Form
 56677 | Swamp:2  | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 56680 | Swamp:2  | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 56684 | Swamp:2  | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 56944 | Swamp:3  | Identified the +7 rapier "Zonef" {drain, rC- Str+5 Dex+7} (You found it on level 3 of the Swamp)
 57347 | Swamp:3  | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 57411 | Swamp:3  | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 58509 | Swamp:4  | Entered Level 4 of the Swamp
 60510 | Swamp:4  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 61243 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 61440 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 151/151 MP: 32/38
 63107 | Vaults:1 | Found Sawnaix's Distillery.
 63190 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 85 gold pieces
 63190 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of resistance for 170 gold pieces
 63190 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of brilliance for 68 gold pieces
 63190 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of agility for 68 gold pieces
 63190 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of agility for 68 gold pieces
 67523 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 16 in Earth Magic
 68849 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 68854 | Elf:1    | Found Vuph's General Store.
 68866 | Elf:1    | Bought a +2 buckler of protection for 344 gold pieces
 69283 | Elf:1    | Noticed Asterion
 69300 | Elf:1    | Killed Asterion
 69499 | Elf:1    | Reached XP level 19. HP: 162/162 MP: 17/40
 69507 | Elf:1    | Gained mutation: You are dopey. (Int -2) [a neqoxec]
 69950 | Elf:1    | Noticed Agnes
 69975 | Elf:1    | Killed Agnes
 70282 | Elf:1    | Noticed Kirke
 70290 | Elf:1    | Killed Kirke
 71908 | Elf:2    | Noticed Aizul
 71915 | Elf:2    | Killed Aizul
 72097 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 72097 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 72097 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 72099 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 72100 | Elf:2    | Found a huge runed gate.
 72323 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 72324 | Elf:3    | Found Weesal's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 72970 | Elf:3    | Cast into level 3 of the Abyss (a deep elf sorcerer)
 73356 | Abyss:3  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 73681 | Abyss:3  | Paralysed by accursed screaming for 1 turns
 73744 | Abyss:3  | Got a flickering amethyst amulet
 73746 | Abyss:3  | Identified the amulet "Ruttyhiq" {Harm *Drain +Inv rElec rC+ Stlth+} (You found it on level 3 of the Abyss)
 73923 | Elf:3    | Escaped the Abyss
 74125 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 74127 | Elf:3    | Got a steaming dagger {venom}
 74228 | Elf:3    | Identified the +1 dagger "Widowmaker" {venom, Int+4} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 74982 | Elf:3    | Noticed a Brimstone Fiend
 75793 | Elf:3    | Identified the Papyrus of Blistering Enhancements
 75829 | Elf:3    | Got a sheer robe
 75950 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 1 in Staves
 76005 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 76211 | Elf:3    | Got a brightly glowing plate armour
 76298 | Elf:3    | Learned a level 6 spell: Iron Shot
 76304 | Elf:3    | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Magma
 76305 | Elf:3    | Identified the Grimoire of the Shifting Mountains
 76456 | Orc:2    | Identified the +1 robe of Intercession {*Drain rC+++ rCorr Int-3} (You took it off a deep elf death mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 76466 | Orc:2    | Identified the +1 plate armour "Faclamia" {*Contam +Inv rC+ Dex+2} (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 77041 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 161/172 MP: 7/42
 77263 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 79280 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
 79569 | Vaults:3 | Found Lanta's Assorted Antiques.
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought an embroidered hat for 320 gold pieces
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 160 gold pieces
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought a sedimented amethyst potion for 28 gold pieces
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought a scroll of identify for 64 gold pieces
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought a dented cabochon amulet for 160 gold pieces
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought a dented filigree amulet for 160 gold pieces
 79576 | Vaults:3 | Bought a potion of brilliance for 128 gold pieces
 79622 | Vaults:3 | Found Ragiuhue's Jewellery Shoppe.
 79629 | Vaults:3 | Bought the amulet of Dishonesty {Reflect rN+ Str+3 SH+4} for 552 gold pieces
 80169 | Vaults:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 81800 | Vaults:3 | Found Beazann's Antique Weapon Shop.
 82837 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 84652 | D:15     | Found Siheynad's Book Emporium.
 84868 | D:15     | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
 85231 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 85507 | D:15     | Reached XP level 21. HP: 170/179 MP: 31/43
 86846 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 87042 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 87208 | Depths:1 | Noticed Louise
 87219 | Depths:1 | Killed Louise
 87346 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 87409 | Depths:1 | Learned a level 1 spell: Apportation
 87833 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 17 in Earth Magic
 89490 | Depths:2 | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 89729 | Depths:3 | Found Qery's Book Emporium.
 89806 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
 89822 | Depths:3 | Noticed a juggernaut
 89826 | Depths:3 | Noticed a golden dragon
 89972 | D:15     | Killed a juggernaut
 90546 | Depths:3 | Noticed a golden dragon
 90550 | Depths:3 | Killed a golden dragon
 90745 | Depths:3 | Noticed a caustic shrike
 90895 | Depths:3 | Killed a golden dragon
 90895 | Depths:3 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 189/189 MP: 36/45
 91672 | D:10     | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 92084 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 92230 | Depths:3 | Killed a caustic shrike
 92370 | Depths:3 | Noticed an ancient lich
 92378 | Depths:3 | Killed an ancient lich
 92654 | Depths:3 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 92861 | Depths:3 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 94498 | Depths:4 | Noticed an ancient lich
 94519 | Depths:4 | Killed an ancient lich
 95333 | Depths:3 | Bought a book of Enchantments for 800 gold pieces
 95340 | Depths:3 | Learned a level 6 spell: Deflect Missiles
 95592 | Depths:4 | Got a crude chain mail
 95593 | Depths:4 | Identified the +2 chain mail of Boredom {rC+} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 96063 | Depths:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Depths
 96106 | Depths:5 | Found a runed warning-scrawled door.
 96116 | Depths:5 | Found a runed door.
 96117 | Depths:5 | Found a runed door.
 96125 | Depths:5 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 196/196 MP: 40/47
 96229 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 96328 | Depths:5 | Noticed Mennas
 96555 | Depths:5 | Killed Mennas
 97472 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 97777 | Depths:5 | Noticed a juggernaut
 97785 | Depths:5 | Killed a juggernaut
 97785 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
 98918 | Depths:5 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot.
 99335 | Depths:4 | Voluntarily entered the Abyss.
 99713 | Depths:4 | Escaped the Abyss

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Earth Magic    |  3        4     5  6  7  9 10 11 12    13 14    15 16       17       | 17.6
Dodging        |  2              3  4  5  6  7  8     9 10    11       12       13    | 13.7
Spellcasting   |     2           3     4  5  6  7     8  9    10 11 12    13    14    | 14.7
Fighting       |           1     2  3  4  5  6  7  8     9 10 11    12 13    14    15 | 15.2
Conjurations   |              1              3  5                          9 10       | 10.6
Transmutations |              1     2              4  5     6        9                |  9.0
Short Blades   |                                1  4  6  7  8  9 10                   | 10.3
Armour         |                                   3  4  5  7  8     9 10          11 | 11.3
Shields        |                                      4  5  7  8  9                   |  9.3
Charms         |                                      2           4                 6 |  6.8
Ice Magic      |                                      2                               |  2.6
Air Magic      |                                                  3              4  6 |  6.4
Translocations |                                                  3                   |  3.3
Staves         |                                                        2  8 10 12    | 12.9
Evocations     |                                                        1  5  7  8    |  8.8
Fire Magic     |                                                           1  4       |  4.4
Necromancy     |                                                                 3    |  3.0
Stealth        |                                                                      |  1.7

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |       |       |    16 |    68 |   404 |   955 |   106 |       ||  1549
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |       |       |   382 |   511 ||   893
 Cast: Sandblast         |    79 |   100 |   182 |    31 |    70 |     1 |       |       ||   463
       Stone Arrow       |       |     1 |    12 |   159 |   527 |   755 |   354 |     6 ||  1814
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |     9 |   153 |   554 |   585 |   578 |   225 ||  2104
       Petrify           |       |       |       |    29 |    96 |   134 |    16 |     2 ||   277
       Ozocubu's Armour  |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     6 |     2 ||    10
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     4 |     2 ||     8
       Statue Form       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |       |       |   181 |   217 ||   398
       Bolt of Magma     |       |       |       |       |       |       |     7 |       ||     7
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |     2 |     3 ||     8
  Use: Scroll            |     8 |     6 |     5 |    12 |    25 |    16 |    17 |     4 ||    93
       Potion            |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |     3 |    13 |     7 ||    25
 Stab: Petrified         |       |       |       |       |    29 |    32 |     2 |       ||    63
       Petrifying        |       |       |       |       |       |     5 |       |       ||     5
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |       |     6 |     3 |       ||     9
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |    13 |    14 |    62 |   134 |   129 |    81 |    52 ||   488
       Fruit             |     2 |     1 |       |       |       |     3 |    21 |    13 ||    40
       Bread ration      |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |       ||     3
       Pizza             |       |       |       |       |     6 |       |     5 |       ||    11
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     9 |     1 |       ||    12
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |     5 |     3 ||    10
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     8 |       ||    10
Armor: Robe              |     2 |     4 |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     7
       Leather armour    |       |       |    21 |    11 |       |       |       |       ||    32
       Swamp dragon scal |       |       |       |    38 |   323 |   585 |   286 |   200 ||  1432
       Skin              |       |       |       |       |       |     9 |     1 |       ||    10
Dodge: Dodged            |    36 |    29 |    69 |   138 |   545 |   873 |   603 |   349 ||  2642
       Deflected         |       |       |       |       |       |    12 |    14 |    12 ||    38
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |       |    48 |     7 |   415 |   219 ||   689
       Shield            |       |       |       |       |   302 |  1013 |       |       ||  1315
       Reflection        |       |       |       |       |       |       |    27 |       ||    27



Just cleared Depths, and lacking resistances; there are rings of rC around (I could ditch the MP+9, though I don't really want to), but none of rF, no available rElec except an amulet with Harm and *Drain, no rN except the amulet I'm wearing. Really not sure where to go next:
- Vaults 5 could be seriously punishing with no resistance and only moderate AC+EV.
- No rCorr is pretty scary in slime
- Abyss is worrying with pretty loud killing.
If there's something useful to train at this point, there's fairly easy XP sitting around in Crypt. What would you do next?

[VeryAngryFelid]

Crypt can give you resists, also you may enter ziggurate and clear a few floors.

[duvessa]

You don't need resists for v:5. Also, stop training air magic.

[Airwolf]

Yeah, Crypt.

[VeryAngryFelid]

You don't need resists for v:5.

Then you need luck. Having a fire giant, frost giant and titan in view can give you 225 damage per turn and those monsters are pretty common there.

[duvessa]

V:5 has good enough terrain that you don't need to have a fire giant, frost giant and titan in view all at once. In fact I'm pretty sure the only place where you might need to have those 3 monsters in LoS at once is a ziggurat. This character can do V:5 fine as is, it has 200 hp, good defenses, and LRD on a level that's entirely metal/crystal walls.

I'm all for using careful tactics, but this kind of paranoia about a characters' attributes hurts far more than it helps. This character can win comfortably using only the items, skills, and spells it has now. It's going to pick up a bunch more items and skill levels in v:5. Do Crypt/Elf/Slime for fun all you want but it's absolutely not necessary to go out looking for resistances or specific AC/EV/SH numbers. The Crawl ascension kit is:
1. a way to kill or avoid most monsters without risk (covered several times: LRD, iron shot, decent melee)
2. a reliable way to avoid dangerous monsters that you need to avoid (covered: this character has about 50 hastes, plus the blink scrolls, fog, etc.)
3. for Zot, a source of rF+ or good summon spam (covered by 3 potions of resistance). rF++ if the character is weak against oofs (it isn't).
Other stuff is convenient - ac, ev, and hp obviously help accomplish these things - but "missing" items are not worth derailing your game plan over, barring a situation like "I got 3 runes as a spen and no source of rF+ has generated yet". Across over 200 wins, I have yet to encounter a situation like that.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Maybe you missed my point, you don't need to have all 3. I meant that any of them can deal you 72-78 damage from range 5-6 so it requires luck to survive. Now compare to character with rF+/rC+/rElec, even on swappable items like ring, you can reduce the max damage to 36-39 which is not a big deal at this stage.

[Odds]

Thanks. In my experience (maybe I'm doing it wrong), Vaults 5 entry often involves unavoidably fighting a decent crowd; either on the stairs, or after a hatch/random tele, as running away doesn't reliably decrease the number of monsters around. I'd be somewhat happy clearing Vaults 5 once I was first safe there, but the first safety doesn't look easy.

@duvessa: I'm training Air Magic to get Deflect Missiles, having nothing hugely urgent to train elsewhere. Do you think DM just isn't worthwhile for this character?

[Sprucery]

I have to say that it hasn't even crossed my mind to check for resistances before entering V:5, except for MR if I'm scared of being Marked. I always do Elf and Crypt first, because it's fun, though. And I haven't died on V:$, like, ever (maybe in the times of Linley's Dungeon Crawl).

[nago]

Maybe you missed my point, you don't need to have all 3. I meant that any of them can deal you 72-78 damage from range 5-6 so it requires luck to survive. Now compare to character with rF+/rC+/rElec, even on swappable items like ring, you can reduce the max damage to 36-39 which is not a big deal at this stage.

Ok, virtually is possible that the char miscasts 3 times a row LRD or iron shot miss, while the fire giant\titan happily throw three maxed damage spells, but those are unlikely situations. And this char is 100% able to survive\react to those unlikely situations using consumables (?fog, ?blink, ?summon, !resist, /haste, /hw, etc).

I don't remember ice giant's bolt of cold range, but I think it should be 4 so at range 5/6 he isn't a danger

[VeryAngryFelid]

Ok, virtually is possible that the char miscasts 3 times a row LRD or iron shot miss, while the fire giant\titan happily throw three maxed damage spells, but those are unlikely situations. And this char is 100% able to survive\react to those unlikely situations using consumables (?fog, ?blink, ?summon, !resist, /haste, /hw, etc).

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean you are always at full HP and MP vs every fire giant? In my experience Vaults is extremely hard floor, I almost always drop below half HP and down to zero MP with any characters, even ones with all resists and great AC/EV.

I don't remember ice giant's bolt of cold range, but I think it should be 4 so at range 5/6 he isn't a danger

I have yet to see a character who is never attacked from range 0-4 on Vaults 5.

Come on, people, do we have a new meme now? "You don't need anything because it is unlikely that monsters will try to kill you"?

[Sprucery]

Come on, people, do we have a new meme now? "You don't need anything because it is unlikely that monsters will try to kill you"?

No, of course you have to be very careful around dangerous monsters. Titans when you have no rElec are very scary, for example. But my experience is that no specific resistances are needed for V:5, as there are plenty of ways to deal with situations at that point.

Incidentally, I'm currently clearing V:5 with a SpAE of Gozag who has no rElec and about 126 HP.

[VeryAngryFelid]

No, of course you have to be very careful around dangerous monsters. Titans when you have no rElec are very scary, for example. But my experience is that no specific resistances are needed for V:5, as there are plenty of ways to deal with situations at that point.

Incidentally, I'm currently clearing V:5 with a SpAE of Gozag who has no rElec and about 126 HP.

What do you mean as very careful? Do you mean you are never in danger of death due to smart play? I often spectate players who can be killed several times between their actions but still continue fighting because they think they are fine due to haste, might, agility etc.

Recently I had a game where I was a mummy of chei with AC 16/EV 25 and RMsl, I lost 80+ HP (70+% of my HP) during autoexplore on V:1 to a Titan because bolt of lightning hit me twice and it was very far from max roll. It looks like people don't realize that they can lose 144 HP after turning around a corner from a single monster. Do you remember recent thread about scary vault? viewtopic.php?f=17&t=22080
That's 57*2 (lightning bolt) from storm dragon, 75 from one fire giant (bolt of fire) and 78 from another fire giant (fireball), totaling 267 damage. Right from autoexplore, without a chance for player to act. Go, try to prove me that you don't need resists if they decide to cast those spells.

I see different people have different meaning for "you don't need resists", you mean "You can win without resists" and I mean "You don't need resists to survive the worst possible situation i.e. max damage rolls and min AC rolls". Of course the latter is false. With your approach you don't need rF+ vs orb of fire as pure melee Naga with dagger, I am sure people can win it given enough tries.

[Sprucery]

That vault is bad. If you know you are going to that vault, then by all means get some resistances first. I was talking about V:5.

Mu of Chei is a challenge game anyway. But yes, autoexploring into a titan around the corner can get you killed. I don't autoexplore on V:5 until I'm sure it's safe enough. If I see a titan (or a storm dragon) and have no rElec I try really really hard to not get zapped, and especially not double-zapped.

Personally, I am not a very careful player, I splat from time to time. However, on V:5 I guess I am extra careful because it's always dangerous. I never splat there. I also never check resistances when going there. I do check resistances whenever I see a titan/dragon/giant etc. and act accordingly. This is just my personal experience. I'm sure that I could get killed in many situations if all enemies started dealing maximum damage every time (my SpAE has 126 HP as I said). But I guess it is quite a rare situation.

Maybe someone could make a fork where every monster always deals maximum damage. Probably someone would win that too :)

[VeryAngryFelid]

That vault is bad. If you know you are going to that vault, then by all means get some resistances first. I was talking about V:5.

V:5 is much worse than that vault IMHO, it has monsters with cold attacks, drain attacks, poison attacks etc. I still remember a CSDC game where I was a Centaur and I had to abandon V:5 after almost dying several times (yes, I retreated to V:4 and tried again several times) because of titans, I had both rC+ and rF+ but no rElec.

Mu of Chei is a challenge game anyway. But yes, autoexploring into a titan around the corner can get you killed. I don't autoexplore on V:5 until I'm sure it's safe enough. If I see a titan (or a storm dragon) and have no rElec I try really really hard to not get zapped, and especially not double-zapped.

Ok, now I am interested to see how you get silver rune. So you are running away with all those guards and start fighting them in a corridor, right? Or teleport randomly? Or use shaft to enter the level? Must be something different because I tried all these and they all result in very luck-dependent situations. Titan behind vault guards, fire giant coming from opposite side of the corridor, landing in range of ancient lich (it's nice when you feel good the monster casts Bolt of Cold (3d37), Bolt of Fire (3d37), Lightning Bolt (3d29) instead of Lehudib's Crystal Spear (3d48) or Iron Shot (3d44) unless you miss rF+/rC+/rElec) etc.

Personally, I am not a very careful player, I splat from time to time. However, on V:5 I guess I am extra careful because it's always dangerous. I never splat there. I also never check resistances when going there. I do check resistances whenever I see a titan/dragon/giant etc. and act accordingly. This is just my personal experience. I'm sure that I could get killed in many situations if all enemies started dealing maximum damage every time (my SpAE has 126 HP as I said). But I guess it is quite a rare situation.

I don't understand how you check resistances during fights. Do you swap to buckler of rF+ or chain mail of rC+? I want to make sure I cover as many resistances as possible so for example, if I have ring or rF+ but no rC+, then I replace my buckler of rF+ with rC+ before the fight.

Maybe someone could make a fork where every monster always deals maximum damage. Probably someone would win that too

I was playing something like that, it was available on CPO as far as I remember. Though I have just checked and it is not there.

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commits/cyc
Specifically https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8 ... 376ee5f68e

[Odds]

I think this thread understates the dangers of V:5 to a ridiculous extent. Good play in nearly any other area in the game can really limit the enemies you face; in V:5, between the welcome party (inc wardens), sentinels and the volume of enemies, that's really hard to guarantee. Going down there when mediumly powerful with no resistance is scary; quite possibly the scariest thing you face between Lair and victory. (And if you think nothing between Lair and victory is scary, then you have no meaningful advice to offer a character who has reached Lair).

Or maybe I'm just doing V:5 wrong. For the people who think it should be no real bother here: how would you enter it? How would you expect to get to a point where there's somewhere you feel safe resting on V:5 (or a point where you have easy access to V:4)?

[duvessa]

@duvessa: I'm training Air Magic to get Deflect Missiles, having nothing hugely urgent to train elsewhere. Do you think DM just isn't worthwhile for this character?

DMsl is worthwhile and overpowered. The thing is that the success rate of DMsl basically doesn't matter because it doesn't time out, and training air magic just to increase its spell power is not worth it.

My V:5 strategy summarized: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19674&p=266373#p266373

[VeryAngryFelid]

My V:5 strategy summarized: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19674&p=266373#p266373

I have read that guide before. It does not explain how you deal with monsters who can deal 70+ damage per turn from distance 4-6.

[Odds]

(FWIW: I went into Crypt, found a ring of rF rC, replaced my MP ring with it, went into V:5, blinked into a good terrain corner, and am currently hitting lots of wardens with a stick. Found my first rElec on a fairly sweet quarterstaff; pity they're two handed)

[Sprucery]

V:5 is much worse than that vault IMHO, it has monsters with cold attacks, drain attacks, poison attacks etc.

But that vault can come much earlier.

Ok, now I am interested to see how you get silver rune.

I haste myself* (possibly other buffs) on V:4 and go down. Then I run/blink to a corridor and fight from there. Sometimes I teleport away if I don't like the situation. (Btw. I am glad if the titan is behind vault guards, because it won't blast lightning then.)

* unless Fo, in which case I use a hatch/shaft.

I don't understand how you check resistances during fights.

I meant that I check to see if I have some resistance or not and if not, I am more careful, use consumables/evokables etc. Of course I may swap a ring for a resistance.

I don't know, maybe I should have died a dozen times on V:$ and have just been very lucky. But I think I'll continue to not care about resistances when entering V:5. Btw. it's still my favourite level in the game!

[VeryAngryFelid]

But that vault can come much earlier.

It does not matter. As I wrote above it can deal 267 damage max, you need to be XL 27 Na/Ce/Tr/Og/DD/Mi/HO to survive.

I haste myself* (possibly other buffs) on V:4 and go down. Then I run/blink to a corridor and fight from there. Sometimes I teleport away if I don't like the situation.

This is what I do too and I am still in danger often. Maybe I play harder combos, I don't know.

I don't know, maybe I should have died a dozen times on V:$ and have just been very lucky.

Yes, you were lucky. In my last Mu Chei game I had to die multiple times, even a spectator told me that I should have died when I survived.

But I think I'll continue to not care about resistances when entering V:5.

Well, it is expected to learn from experience in crawl so let's wait to see what you will think after first death there

Btw. it's still my favourite level in the game!

No surprise if you have never died there
Though I know what you mean, it's among my favorite levels too.

[duvessa]

My V:5 strategy summarized: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19674&p=266373#p266373

I have read that guide before. It does not explain how you deal with monsters who can deal 70+ damage per turn from distance 4-6.

The OP did 5 levels of Depths. It's safe to assume that they've seen fire giants before.

[Odds]

Hooray! Won, with no drama, though lack of switchable rElec is a pain in Zot. Practically infinite haste, heal wounds and brilliance is pretty sweet.

[VeryAngryFelid]

It's safe to assume that they've seen fire giants before.

I wonder how people manage to die in zigs with 15 runes, they've seen all those monsters before.

[Sprucery]

Maybe I play harder combos, I don't know.

Well, you can see my winners from my sig, they all did V:$ except the first one (only needed one rune then). In addition, I've splatted after V:$ at least GrSu, OgNe, FeBe, HOAE, DDAK, SEDK, HOCK, MDFi, GEIE, SEFi, MDEn, HOTh. So I've survived V:$ at least 58 times. No Chei or Qaz characters though :) Of course I have no idea what resistances those characters had then.

If you always take into account the worst possible scenario, I don't think any character could enter V:5 at all. You can miscast all your spells and miss with all attacks, while 3 aliches appear and cast max damage LCS at you and you roll 0 for AC. Of course you have to think what is a reasonably probable scenario. In my experience, no specific resistance is needed to enter V:5, while expecting to survive reasonably probable scenarios there. Naturally resistances are good to have and without them the level is harder than with them.

But I'll be sure to announce when I die on V:5 and whether some resistance would have helped :)

e: Congrats to Odds for the victory and sorry for your thread...!

[VeryAngryFelid]

If you always take into account the worst possible scenario, I don't think any character could enter V:5 at all.

We still need 3 runes to enter Zot so going for the easiest rune is natural choice even if it can kill you no matter where you go. The same situation happens with Zot 5, I am sure many players would skip it if it was possible.
Slime/Abyss are usually easier than Vaults:5 but I hate mutations and love Vaults:5 so I often go for silver rune.

[Odds]

e: Congrats to Odds for the victory and sorry for your thread...!

Thanks, and no worries. It's been interesting.

[Sprucery]

Slime/Abyss are usually easier than Vaults:5 but I hate mutations and love Vaults:5 so I often go for silver rune.

Me too. In fact, I would do V:5 even if there was no rune there, just for the experience and loot. Screw optimal play :)