YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game


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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:31

YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 111912.txt
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1779-g7aee5af (webtiles) character file.

1551656 Shard1697 the Slayer (level 27, 234/234 HPs)
             Began as a Hill Orc Fighter on Oct 2, 2016.
             Was a High Priest of Okawaru.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes!
             
             The game lasted 02:07:57 (80771 turns).

Shard1697 the Slayer (Hill Orc Fighter)            Turns: 80771, Time: 02:07:58

Health: 234/234    AC: 44    Str: 34    XL:     27
Magic:  33/33      EV: 18    Int: 15    God:    Okawaru [*****.]
Gold:   759        SH: 18    Dex: 14    Spells: 3 memorised, 18 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    a - +12 morningstar of Telamoanutt {drain, +Inv}
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    O - +4 crystal plate armour
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    U - +3 shield of Amelioration {+Fly Int+4}
rPois  .          Spirit   +    o - +1 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    S - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    G - +2 pair of gloves "Esul" {*Slow Str+6}
MR     ++...      Harm     .    W - +1 pair of boots {Fly}
Stlth  ..........               v - amulet of guardian spirit
                                N - +3 ring of slaying
                                F - +5 ring of evasion

@: no status effects
A: deterioration 1, frail 1, low mp 1, sense surroundings 1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility, Evoke Flight
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, silver
On this run, I had the self-imposed challenge of winning without any resists. No MR/rF/rC/rPois/rElec/rN/rCorr on any armor/weapons/jewelry whatsoever, or from mutations(if I got resist mutation randomly I would restart, luckily this did not happen). Probably evident that I did this in response to people saying "prove it, link to any morgue which won without resists" when I or others have said in the past "you do not need resists to win". Perhaps this is petty, but oh well.

This run was an uncharacteristically long 3-rune for me in both time and turncount(02:07:58, 80771 xl27) due to playing more slowly and carefully, but it only took 2 tries to win this challenge. OoF is the enemy everyone thinks of WRT resists but they were not bad with heroism/finesse/might/fog, I did not end up using my one potion of resistance against them. In fact I could have been safer if I remembered to use evocables/silver javelins/nets on aLiches.
Got crystal plate, but very few enchant armor scrolls so it never rose above +4(and my aux armor slots didn't get enchanted up either-+0 cloak all game). Also wore gloves with *Slow on them almost all game, and maybe saw the Slow effect activate 3 times total, which further reinforces my belief that *Slow/*Confuse/*Drain/*Corrode don't actually matter.
Last edited by Shard1697 on Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 510

Joined: Friday, 1st July 2016, 22:32

Location: Aachen, Germany

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:40

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

IIRC with 234 HP and no rF you can get killed in 1 turn by OOF. You just got lucky rolls.

No actually with guardian spirit you can not.

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VeryAngryFelid
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:46

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

Theoretically yes, but with over 40 AC that is extremely unlikely. I mean, it's extremely unlikely even not counting that, because OoF does 129 damage max at speed 15 and with Finesse I am attacking at 0.3-0.4 aut, and it's not getting extra turns to shoot me because I use fog when OoF shows up. (And even if I was taking 1.0 speed turns every turn, the chances of OoF attacking twice after one player action and then rolling (near)max damage on all 3 of its spells dice(3d43/3d40 for fireball/bolt), twice in a row, is incredibly low.)

So it's not even abnormal luck. If anything, an OoF shooting you twice in a row for max damage is far more abnormal. (It is in fact quite low probability.)
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:50

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

I thought fireball ignores AC. Does it not?
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 11:56

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

No, it only ignores EV(which OoF's bolt of fire does not).

The only things which ignore AC are torment, smite, damnation, electrocution, damage from poison effect, flaying/pain mirror,(which all also ignore EV) and... maybe also drowning damage. Shock and lightning bolt only check half AC. Everything else in the game checks AC normally.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 12:41

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

I guess it was aimed at me. Well, last week I won unarmed HOMo of Makhleb who was unlucky with MR items and didn't have any. And then it found

  Code:
the ring "Peups" {rElec rPois rF++ rN+ MR-}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
and started using it, no big deal.

So yes, you don't need MR with HO in heavy armour with OP god...

  Code:
44233 | Vaults:3 | Cast into level 2 of the Abyss (a deep elf demonologist)
 44581 | Abyss:3  | Noticed a bone dragon
 44602 | Abyss:3  | Killed a bone dragon
 44602 | Abyss:3  | Reached XP level 22. HP: 211/211 MP: 31/31
 44629 | Abyss:3  | Noticed a profane servitor
 44650 | Abyss:3  | Killed a profane servitor
 44689 | Abyss:3  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 44691 | Vaults:3 | Escaped the Abyss
 45610 | Vaults:4 | Cast into level 2 of the Abyss (a deep elf sorcerer)
 45858 | Vaults:4 | Escaped the Abyss
 
 53639 | Depths:4 | Paralysed by a sphinx for 6 turns

60446 | Crypt:2  | Cast into level 4 of the Abyss (a lich)
 60461 | Abyss:4  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 60506 | Abyss:4  | Got an abyssal rune of Zot


Interesting that I killed many orc sorcerers/ogre magi/wizrads etc., they refuced to banish/paralyze me for some reason ...

EDit. Oh, and I wasn't playing more slowly or carefully than usual :)

2 hours is slowly, I learned something new :)
  Code:
             Began as a Hill Orc Monk on Sept 25, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Makhleb.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes on Oct 1, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 05:31:58 (74111 turns).
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 12:47

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

I didn't actually remember that it was you in particular, but yes :P Scariest moment was indeed being paralyzed by an aLich, MR felt more significant than elemental resists by a fair margin. (Which means that you are implicitly right in MR being important.)

I might try to do this with harder species next but for now I will probably go back to Fo speedruns.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 12:53

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

That won't prove anything IMHO provided how crawl mechanic works. You can be lucky and avoid dying despite having low HP/AC/MR or you can be unlucky and die despite all of them having relatively high value. Just look at famous pedritolo's game viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21485 : MR+, AC 17, HP 51 and a single slot for swapping rings (so only rF+ without potion of resis vs orbs of fire and I don't see even rElec or MR rings in inventory)
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 20:41

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

Are you suggesting that pedritolo "just got lucky" or something? What the heck?

Anyway, the point is that you don't need resists or great equipment or whatever. Of course people (rightly) still like to have those things, because they increase your chances to win and let you get away with somewhat looser/less careful play.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 21:38

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

and into wrote:Are you suggesting that pedritolo "just got lucky" or something? What the heck?


yes. orb of fire or electric golem can kill the character with a single attack. being lucky is the point of speedruns, otherwise they would have 100% winrate provided how good players they usually are.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 21:41

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

and into wrote:Anyway, the point is that you don't need resists or great equipment or whatever. Of course people (rightly) still like to have those things, because they increase your chances to win and let you get away with somewhat looser/less careful play.


yes, you don't need anything to win a lottery, just keep trying until you win. this is how current situation with felid without resists is. more powerful characters need less luck but still need it.

Edit. I can be proved wrong of course. Just play 3-5 games and win them all like it's possible with MiBe or something.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 23:06

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

Winning with very low level character requires good luck, definitely, but it also requires a lot of skill, patience, and creativity (compared to a non-challenge win). Doesn't seem fair nor sporting to imply that pedritolo "just got lucky," though perhaps that is not how you intended for that to sound?

For this message the author and into has received thanks:
Shard1697

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4432

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Monday, 3rd October 2016, 01:05

Re: YAVP: HoFi^Oka, no resists all game

and into wrote:Winning with very low level character requires good luck, definitely, but it also requires a lot of skill, patience, and creativity (compared to a non-challenge win). Doesn't seem fair nor sporting to imply that pedritolo "just got lucky," though perhaps that is not how you intended for that to sound?


sorry if it sounded harsh. i am really impressed by pedritolo's accomplishment, it was a really great game and i am sure i cannot win at xl9 no matter how many times i try.
I was trying to point that we here seem to use some weird definition of 'something is not needed'. It is possible to win crazy games but it requires luck and many attempts, you cannot just go and win 5 games in 5 tries, you will die exactly because of lack of resists. if 'something wasn't needed' indeed, you would go and win 5 games in 5 attempts. because it is not needed, right? ;) but we cannot do it, because we need either resists or luck.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

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