CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?


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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Saturday, 30th July 2016, 00:36

CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

I have an XL 19 GrBe in its first S branch that Trog has given two +8 longbows of flaming and a demon whip of electrocution. Other good maces available are +2 great maces of crushing and of draining and a +3 antimagic eveningstar. But just now I received a +9 greatsling of speed, and I'm considering the cardinal sin of switching weapon skills in the midgame. I'm tempted by having good one-handed melee weapons at mindelay already.
  • Getting the sling to 14 from 0 is 7135 skill points, getting the bow to 20 from 13.6 is 8330 SP, getting a great mace to mindelay from skill 16 is 5750 more while the demon whip is already at drain-proof mindelay and the eveningstar is exactly at mindelay. So the skill point savings of getting Slings to 14 from zero vs. Bows from 13.6 to 20 and M&F from 16 to 20 is 6945, which would put Shields at 16 (taking aptitudes into account).
  • I'm in +4 plate for now, a +0 regular shield at skill 16 gives 44 AC/14 EV/15 SH, while a +0 large shield gives 44/12/22 and no shield is 44/14/0.
  • All the melee weapons are roughly equal numbers of ?EW away from end-game status.
  • I have no ego shields available, but have found both a regular and a large shield.
  • The bow at skill 20 and +9 does do up to 3 dmg/turn more than the greatsling depending on target AC.
  • I have a perfect target for brand weapon in the second +8 longbow Trog gave me, while I have no other greatlsings (though it is the last scroll, so I'll not read it unawares)
  • +9 electric demon whip vs. +9 great mace of crushing are pretty comparable in damage/turn against end-game enemies, except for rElec targets of course.
  • I have 220 sling bullets lying around so that's not an issue.
  • You'll see in the dump that I'm currently training Bows, but really my killdudes is fine right now and I was going to switch to defenses when Bows got to 14. I could do that for a while seeing whether a better shield comes up, deferring the decision. And of course it's not like I need to stop using my bow as soon as I start training Slings.
My goal is a 5-rune game. It seems like it boils down to whether 2-3 points per turn of ranged damage is worth more or less than -2 EV/+22 SH. I kinda want to try it, for the novelty if nothing else. What do you think?

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.18.1 (tiles) character file.

Esmaeh the Warrior (Gargoyle Berserker)            Turns: 41430, Time: 03:27:04

Health: 135/135    AC: 44    Str: 28    XL:     19   Next: 57%
Magic:  19/19      EV: 17    Int:  6    God:    Trog [******]
Gold:   634        SH:  0    Dex: 15    Spells: 0 memorised, 18 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis +    X - +9 greatsling {speed, Str+5 Int-2}
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    K - +4 plate armour of Free Expression {rPois rN+ Regen+ Dex-3}
rNeg   + + .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  8          Spirit   .    i - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    M - +2 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    A - +1 pair of gloves
SustAt .          Harm     .    r - +1 pair of boots
MR     +....                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ..........               y - +3 ring of evasion {=R}
                                B - +3 ring of dexterity

@: flying, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: big wings, negative energy resistance 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing,
petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC +13
a: Stop Flying, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Burn Spellbooks,
Renounce Religion


You are on level 4 of the Spider Nest.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 29 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Ice Cave.

You have collected 3424 gold pieces.
You have spent 2790 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +3 demon whip of electrocution
 b - a +8 longbow of flaming
 w - a +2 antimagic eveningstar
 H - a +8 longbow of flaming
 X - the +9 greatsling of Hell's Wrath (weapon) {speed, Str+5 Int-2}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Spider Nest)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon are significantly faster.
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
Missiles
 P - 575 arrows
Armour
 i - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 r - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 A - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 K - the +4 plate armour of Free Expression (worn) {rPois rN+ Regen+ Dex-3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 M - a +2 cloak (worn)
Jewellery
 t - the ring of Gikhicih {rElec rC+ MP+9}
   (You found it in an ice cave)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 x - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 y - a +3 ring of evasion (right hand) {=R}
 B - a +3 ring of dexterity (left hand)
 N - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
Wands
 f - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 2}
 h - a wand of lightning (14/15)
 o - a wand of iceblast
 p - a wand of teleportation (4/9)
 C - a wand of teleportation
 D - a wand of heal wounds (6/9)
 I - a wand of digging (8/24)
 L - a wand of iceblast (10/15)
 O - a wand of lightning (4/15)
 T - a wand of iceblast
Scrolls
 c - a scroll of fog
 d - a scroll of torment
 j - 2 scrolls of identify
 k - a scroll of immolation
 m - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 q - 3 scrolls of blinking
 s - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 G - a scroll of magic mapping
 J - 3 scrolls of fear
 S - a scroll of silence
 W - 5 scrolls of recharging
Potions
 e - 2 potions of cancellation
 g - 9 potions of heal wounds
 l - 3 potions of might
 n - 2 potions of agility
 v - 2 potions of haste
 z - 3 potions of resistance
 E - 9 potions of curing
 Q - 3 potions of ambrosia
Miscellaneous
 u - a stone of tremors
Comestibles
 F - 40 fruits
 R - 2 beef jerkies
 U - 7 chunks of flesh
 V - a bread ration


   Skills:
 - Level 20.0 Fighting
 - Level 16.0 Maces & Flails
 + Level 13.6 Bows
 - Level 10.7 Armour
 - Level 11.0 Dodging


You have 18 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:9
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:5       Spider (4/4) Lair:5        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
    Orc (2/2) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Makhleb
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:13 *   D:15 [*   Orc:2 *[!:

Portals:
Pandemonium: Orc:2

Annotations:
D:8 exclusion: downstairs
D:12 1 runed door
D:14 Agnes
Spider:4 1 exclusion


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
Your stone body is resilient (AC +13).
You are immune to poison.
Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.


Message History

You found a web!
The wolf spider hisses angrily.
You thrash the wolf spider!!
The wolf spider is moderately wounded.
The wolf spider closely misses you. x2
You hit the wolf spider. There is a sudden explosion of sparks!
The wolf spider is severely wounded.
You whack the wolf spider! There is a sudden explosion of sparks!
You kill the wolf spider!
Trog accepts your kill.
You see here a wolf spider corpse.
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Your +3 demon whip of electrocution stops crackling.
You feel stronger.
You feel stupid.
Your hands tingle!
X - the +9 greatsling of Hell's Wrath (weapon) {speed, Str+5 Int-2}
You start waiting.
You are no longer corroded.
Save game and exit?

......^.##.^.s.^.^#..#..
..(...........#...##.##.
......#......###.#######
.........^^### ###
........†..#
..........^##
.^†.........## *##
...........!^###^##
#.............#..^#*
......^.^..........#
......#.##.....#...#
.....######..###^.#*
....####..##@#...#*
..##* #^.........#
..*   #......#####
***   #^##..##
      #**####


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Rupert (Lair:8)
  A frost giant (D:15)
  Maud (D:14)
  A ghost moth (Spider:3)
  2 orc warlords (Orc:1)
  2 emperor scorpions
  A minotaur (Lab)
  8 vault guards (D:14)
  5 entropy weavers
  An ice dragon (IceCv)
  6 hydras
  A centaur warrior (D:15)
  A catoblepas (Lair:8)
  A tengu warrior (D:15)
  Urug (D:10)
  A queen ant (Lair:7)
  7 death yaks
  Sonja (D:13)
  2 sun demons
  5 orc high priests (Orc:2)
  3 skeletal warriors (D:14)
  2 unseen horrors
  2 gelid demonspawn (Orc:2)
  3 hill giants
  Pikel (D:7)
  16 orb spiders
  7 orc knights
  A hornet (Spider:2)
  A wizard (D:15)
  3 cyclopes
  30 wolf spiders
  An oklob plant (Lair:4)
  3 manticores
  9 orc sorcerers (Orc:2)
  4 griffons
  7 ugly things
  A moth of wrath (Spider:2)
  11 elephants
  A rust devil (Orc:2)
  2 ice statues (IceCv)
  13 black mambas
  A torpor snail (Lair:8)
  An orange demon (Orc:2)
  19 spiny frogs
  2 gargoyles
  6 yaktaurs (D:15)
  8 rime drakes
  7 komodo dragons
  A spriggan druid (Lair:7)
  12 demonic crawlers
  A polar bear (Lair:4)
  28 jumping spiders
  A red devil (Orc:2)
  A tengu conjurer (D:15)
  4 two-headed ogres
  9 trolls
  5 slime creatures (D:13)
  17 blink frogs
  A spriggan (Lair:1)
  3 shadows
  2 water elementals (D:15)
  A hill giant zombie (D:12)
  56 redbacks
  3 wraiths
  78 yaks
  6 basilisks
  A fire elemental (Lair:8)
  26 tarantellas
  16 hippogriffs
  3 vampire mosquitoes (D:15)
  3 hungry ghosts
  3 mottled dragons
  A warg (Orc:2)
  Menkaure (D:7)
  6 soldier ants
  13 water moccasins
  14 porcupines
  Duvessa (D:7)
  A hornet simulacrum (D:15)
  20 ice beasts
  38 orc warriors
  2 sky beasts
  3 slaves (D:7)
  3 phantoms
  2 wasps
  An eye of draining (D:11)
  6 black bears
  13 ogres
  11 centaurs
  9 wolves
  26 crocodiles
  4 big kobolds
  20 giant frogs
  2 wyvern zombies
  2 wyvern skeletons
  Dowan (D:7)
  A troll zombie (D:12)
  A scorpion (D:9)
  11 killer bees
  2 electric eels
  4 howler monkeys
  4 crimson imps
  5 centaur zombies
  2 giant frog skeletons
  8 hounds
  2 quasits
  5 jellies
  2 giant frog zombies
  4 gnoll shamans (D:7)
  31 orc priests
  31 orc wizards
  3 centaur skeletons
  10 iguanas
  27 worker ants
  13 sheep
  4 ogre zombies (D:12)
  A hound skeleton (D:7)
  A worker ant zombie (D:9)
  15 gnolls
  13 adders
  48 river rats
  2 shadow imps (D:12)
  12 white imps (Lair:6)
  An ooze (D:4)
  2 adder skeletons
  4 worms
  A dart slug (D:3)
  8 giant geckos
  93 orcs
  7 giant cockroaches
  7 goblins
  5 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  6 quokkas
  5 bats
  A giant gecko zombie (D:6)
  11 giant newts
  A goblin skeleton (D:12)
  3 goblin zombies (D:12)
  2 hobgoblin skeletons (D:12)
  2 hobgoblin zombies (D:12)
  29 kobolds
  2 orc skeletons (D:12)
  9 orc zombies (D:12)
  8 rats
  A plant (D:7)
1176 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Fannar (Lair:3)
  An entropy weaver (Spider:4)
  An ice dragon (IceCv)
  2 hydras (Lair:4)
  2 death yaks (Lair:7)
  2 wolf spiders
  3 elephants (Lair:6)
  A centaur skeleton (D:9)
  A rime drake (Lair:7)
  2 jumping spiders (Spider:1)
  A troll (D:9)
  2 blink frogs (Lair:5)
  4 redbacks
  3 tarantellas
  A yak (Lair:7)
  A hippogriff (Lair:7)
  A crocodile (D:9)
  2 howler monkeys (D:9)
  A gnoll shaman (D:9)
  An orc wizard (D:9)
  A worker ant (D:9)
  An adder (D:9)
  6 river rats
  An orc (D:9)
42 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An orc wizard (D:3)
  An orc (Orc:2)
  A bush (D:9)
  68 fungi
  32 plants
103 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1321 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Esmaeh the Gargoyle Berserker began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 1/1
   360 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/19 MP: 2/2
   637 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Maces & Flails
   747 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 20/23 MP: 3/3
   906 | D:1      | Reached ** piety under Trog
  1332 | D:2      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  2003 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 28/28 MP: 4/4
  2289 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
  2443 | D:3      | Reached *** piety under Trog
  3016 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 30/32 MP: 5/5
  3252 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Maces & Flails
  3494 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 27/37 MP: 6/6
  4114 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Maces & Flails
  4306 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 34/41 MP: 7/7
  4562 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Maces & Flails
  5107 | D:4      | Reached **** piety under Trog
  5167 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5717 | D:5      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
  5784 | D:5      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  6069 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  6216 | D:6      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  6225 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 48/50 MP: 8/8
  6535 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  6942 | D:7      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  6951 | D:7      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  6951 | D:7      | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
  6954 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
  7237 | D:7      | Noticed Menkaure
  7245 | D:7      | Killed Menkaure
  7311 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  7329 | D:7      | Killed Duvessa
  7329 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
  7330 | D:7      | Noticed Dowan
  7361 | D:7      | Killed Dowan
  7361 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 61/61 MP: 9/9
  7758 | D:7      | Noticed Pikel
  7771 | D:7      | Killed Pikel
  7771 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
  7828 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8257 | D:7      | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
  8778 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Maces & Flails
  9340 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
  9351 | D:8      | Reached ***** piety under Trog
  9351 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 59/69 MP: 10/10
 10003 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Maces & Flails
 10191 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
 10747 | D:9      | Received a gift from Trog
 10964 | D:9      | Reached skill level 12 in Maces & Flails
 11498 | D:9      | Reached skill level 13 in Maces & Flails
 11498 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 67/74 MP: 11/11
 11519 | D:9      | Reached skill level 3 in Armour
 11522 | D:9      | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
 11781 | D:9      | Got a twisted leather armour
 11792 | D:9      | Identified the +3 leather armour of the Will of the Gods {Int+3} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 11865 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 11899 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12161 | D:9      | Reached skill level 6 in Armour
 12344 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12413 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 7 in Armour
 12632 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 8 in Armour
 12920 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 9 in Armour
 12950 | Lair:1   | Got a creamy pearl robe
 12961 | Lair:1   | Identified the cursed +0 robe of Xufifos {rElec} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 13611 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 14101 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 14186 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 80/80 MP: 12/12
 15410 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 14 in Maces & Flails
 15493 | Lair:3   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 15612 | Lair:3   | Noticed Fannar
 15625 | Lair:3   | Killed Fannar
 15874 | Lair:3   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 15883 | Lair:3   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 16739 | Lair:4   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 16749 | Lair:4   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 16749 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 15 in Maces & Flails
 16790 | Lair:4   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 16793 | Lair:4   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 16801 | Lair:4   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 16804 | Lair:4   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 17571 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 17582 | Lair:5   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 17821 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 17835 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 59/84 MP: 13/13
 18006 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 16 in Maces & Flails
 18862 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 18879 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Bows
 19171 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 2 in Bows
 19322 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 3 in Bows
 19419 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 4 in Bows
 19463 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 2 in Dodging
 19616 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 19617 | Lair:6   | Found a frozen archway.
 19633 | Lair:6   | Got an ichor-stained mace {god gift}
 19676 | Lair:6   | Identified the +5 mace of Instinct {freeze, rPois rN+ Str-4} (Trog gifted it to you on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19685 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 19764 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
 20255 | IceCv    | Noticed an ice dragon
 20267 | IceCv    | Killed an ice dragon
 20267 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
 20275 | IceCv    | Noticed an ice dragon
 20296 | IceCv    | Killed an ice dragon
 20505 | IceCv    | Got a transparent glass ring
 20511 | IceCv    | Got a bound marble ring
 20525 | IceCv    | Identified the ring of Gikhicih {rElec rC+ MP+9} (You found it in an ice cave)
 20531 | IceCv    | Identified the ring of Qokareohu {rCorr Int+6} (You found it in an ice cave)
 21133 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 21586 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
 22413 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
 22457 | Lair:7   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 22475 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 23125 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 23139 | Lab      | Killed a minotaur
 23139 | Lab      | Gained mutation: Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely. [Gargoyle growth]
 23139 | Lab      | Reached XP level 14. HP: 84/92 MP: 14/14
 23198 | Lab      | Received a gift from Trog
 23225 | Lab      | Got a scorched leather armour
 23236 | Lab      | Identified the cursed +0 leather armour "Puuv" {Str+3 Slay+6} (You took it off a minotaur in a labyrinth)
 23287 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 23306 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
 23864 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 23954 | Lair:7   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 23955 | Lair:7   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 25106 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Trog
 25106 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 25547 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 5 in Bows
 25774 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 6 in Bows
 25880 | Lair:8   | Noticed Rupert
 26185 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 7 in Bows
 26608 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 8 in Bows
 26624 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 26743 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 96/96 MP: 15/15
 26996 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 9 in Bows
 27121 | Lair:8   | Killed Rupert
 27232 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Bows
 28132 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Trog
 28186 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 28453 | D:10     | Noticed Urug
 28473 | D:10     | Killed Urug
 28714 | D:10     | Got a scintillating brass ring
 28716 | D:10     | Identified the ring "Geuqiej" {rCorr *Corrode *Drain rN+++ Stlth+} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 28777 | D:10     | Received a gift from Trog
 29216 | D:11     | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 29233 | D:11     | Received a gift from Trog
 29772 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 30009 | D:12     | Got a polished chain mail
 30020 | D:12     | Identified the +3 chain mail of the Ward {Dex+4} (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 30263 | D:12     | Found a runed door.
 30264 | D:12     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 30264 | D:12     | Noticed an angel
 30340 | D:12     | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 30401 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 30449 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc warlord
 30459 | Orc:1    | Killed an orc warlord
 30668 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 30766 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 31081 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 31281 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 31319 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 31408 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc warlord
 31563 | Orc:1    | Killed an orc warlord
 31786 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 32695 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 32698 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 32789 | Orc:2    | Found Recitor's General Store.
 33188 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 33239 | Orc:2    | Found Ehuobreo's Distillery.
 33535 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 16. HP: 107/107 MP: 16/16
 33766 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 33975 | Orc:2    | Found Asmi's Book Boutique.
 33975 | Orc:2    | Found Zosam's Antique Armour Shop.
 33975 | Orc:2    | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 34039 | Orc:2    | Bought 2 potions of experience for 1300 gold pieces
 34039 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 16 in Fighting
 34039 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 17. HP: 115/115 MP: 17/17
 34040 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 17 in Fighting
 34040 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 18. HP: 123/123 MP: 18/18
 34043 | Orc:2    | Bought a wand of teleportation (4/9) for 312 gold pieces
 34072 | Orc:2    | Bought a shimmering plate armour for 728 gold pieces
 34082 | Orc:2    | Identified the +4 plate armour of Free Expression {rPois rN+ Regen+ Dex-3} (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
 34131 | Orc:2    | Bought a +0 cloak for 58 gold pieces
 34148 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of might for 52 gold pieces
 34148 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 65 gold pieces
 34148 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 65 gold pieces
 34148 | Orc:2    | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 65 gold pieces
 34490 | D:13     | Found Plog's Assorted Antiques.
 34776 | D:13     | Reached ****** piety under Trog
 35072 | D:13     | Received a gift from Trog
 35098 | D:13     | Noticed Sonja
 35126 | D:13     | Killed Sonja
 35183 | D:13     | Bought a dented cameo amulet for 145 gold pieces
 35541 | D:14     | Noticed Agnes
 35707 | D:14     | Reached skill level 18 in Fighting
 35714 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 35944 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 36084 | D:14     | Noticed Maud
 36093 | D:14     | Killed Maud
 36374 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 36374 | D:15     | Found Teid's Assorted Antiques.
 36454 | D:15     | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 36713 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 36874 | D:15     | Found Cibrook's Armour Shop.
 36933 | D:15     | Reached skill level 19 in Fighting
 37443 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 37842 | Spider:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 38151 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 20 in Fighting
 38406 | Spider:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 38457 | Spider:2 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 135/135 MP: 19/19
 38773 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 11 in Bows
 39675 | Spider:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 39960 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 12 in Bows
 40687 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 13 in Bows
 40918 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 41159 | Spider:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Spider Nest
 41375 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 41392 | Spider:4 | Got a crystal greatsling {god gift}
 41409 | Spider:4 | Identified the +9 greatsling of Hell's Wrath {speed, Str+5 Int-2} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Spider Nest)

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------+-----
Maces & Flails |     4     5  6  7  8    10 13    15 16                   | 16.0
Fighting       |                    5  9 11          12    14 16 17 20    | 20.0
Armour         |                               10                         | 10.7
Bows           |                                      4  8 10          13 | 13.6
Dodging        |                                      7 10 11             | 11.0

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Mace              |   127 |   160 |   221 |       |       |       |       ||   508
       Dagger            |       |       |    19 |       |       |       |       ||    19
       Flail             |       |       |   144 |       |       |       |       ||   144
       Whip              |       |       |   104 |   662 |       |       |       ||   766
       Great mace        |       |       |       |   198 |  1103 |       |       ||  1301
       Demon whip        |       |       |       |       |    42 |   382 |   329 ||   753
 Fire: Hunting sling     |    13 |    39 |    68 |   138 |     1 |       |       ||   259
       Blowgun           |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Shortbow          |       |       |       |       |   136 |       |       ||   136
       Longbow           |       |       |       |       |   372 |   284 |   229 ||   885
Throw: Stone             |     1 |     7 |    20 |    12 |     3 |       |       ||    43
Invok: Berserk           |     1 |     5 |     8 |     6 |     3 |       |       ||    23
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |     4 |     8 |     1 |     1 ||    14
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |     2 ||     6
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |       |       |     4 |     2 |       ||     6
 Abil: Fly               |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |     5 |     6 |    10 |    20 |     8 |     3 ||    54
       Potion            |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |     2 |     1 ||     6
 Stab: Distracted        |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2
       Sleeping          |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     4 |    12 |    19 |    21 |    48 |    10 |     4 ||   118
       Bread ration      |       |       |     1 |     1 |       |       |     1 ||     3
       Royal jelly       |       |       |     1 |       |       |     1 |       ||     2
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |       |     1 ||     5
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
Armor: Animal skin       |    13 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    13
       Leather armour    |    29 |       |       |       |   189 |    33 |       ||   251
       Scale mail        |    11 |    32 |   171 |       |       |       |       ||   214
       Ring mail         |       |    46 |    65 |       |       |       |       ||   111
       Plate armour      |       |       |    12 |   436 |   272 |   215 |   316 ||  1251
       Robe              |       |       |       |    12 |       |       |       ||    12
       Chain mail        |       |       |       |       |   129 |     2 |       ||   131
Dodge: Dodged            |    76 |    61 |   109 |   152 |  1053 |   289 |   343 ||  2083
Block: Buckler           |    15 |    17 |     9 |       |       |       |       ||    41
       Large shield      |       |       |   257 |   331 |       |       |       ||   588

Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 451

Joined: Friday, 24th June 2016, 14:09

Post Saturday, 30th July 2016, 05:18

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

Dude, it's GrBe, it's a free win anyway going two handed, if you want to win just got 2 handed. If you want to not play the most boring build in existence then do what you want, train throwing and throw armour at people for the giggles
User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 510

Joined: Friday, 1st July 2016, 22:32

Location: Aachen, Germany

Post Saturday, 30th July 2016, 10:55

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

If you don't have good shield 2handed is better I guess.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2229

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Saturday, 30th July 2016, 12:09

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

BabyRage wrote:If you don't have good shield 2handed is better I guess.

No the rule is what is your best weapon considering both 1h and 2h available
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Saturday, 30th July 2016, 13:34

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

nago wrote:
BabyRage wrote:If you don't have good shield 2handed is better I guess.

No the rule is what is your best weapon considering both 1h and 2h available

I feel confident that the electric demon whip is the best weapon I have available to me right now. The real question is, how does this greatsling + a large shield compare with the longbow? I can wield the demon whip without the shield, of course, so the ranged weapon is the issue.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Saturday, 30th July 2016, 18:47

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

You can wield the greatsling without a shield, too.

Only 13 bows so far, greatsling to mindelay would be roughly same as getting bows to mindelay. Berserkers feel even less experience crunch than other characters, so "wasting" 13 skill in bows won't really matter ultimately.

So yeah, I'd pick up and use a shield, carry around both the antimagic eveningstar and the dwhip, and eventually get slings to mindelay if you want to do ranged combat. Otherwise you can also just ignore the sling, forget about using bows, and train evocations if more evokables have shown up by the time you have trained some shields.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2229

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Monday, 1st August 2016, 09:36

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

MainiacJoe wrote:
nago wrote:
BabyRage wrote:If you don't have good shield 2handed is better I guess.

No the rule is what is your best weapon considering both 1h and 2h available

I feel confident that the electric demon whip is the best weapon I have available to me right now. The real question is, how does this greatsling + a large shield compare with the longbow? I can wield the demon whip without the shield, of course, so the ranged weapon is the issue.


Can't fsim, but I'm pretty positive longbow are vastly superior to greatsling.
However, a Be can live well even without commiting to a ranged weapon, so you may as well learn slings just to soften up melee enemies while approaching or whatever. I mean ranged combat >> melee combat, but there is no actual need to switch to a second thing that does the "same" of your dwhip unless you really want to.

Or, and into said, you could train evo if you got some evokables|rods|wands because they give both strong ranged options and more options, especially for a Be who lacks spells - like summons, clouds and so on.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Monday, 1st August 2016, 14:17

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

You're right: when I replied to you earlier, I was only thinking about the melee weapon, not the ranged one. This greatsling is 2-3 AvgEffADam worse than a maxed out branded longbow by target AC, while the maxed elec dwhip is on par with a maxed branded great mace (though worse against high AC). So I'm clearly going with the dwhip, not least because how long will it be before I get another so early? Shield + greatsling vs. longbow? That's the question. Well, one thing I can do is just stop training weapons or shields and focus on Fighting and Dodging, keeping the bow at 13.6 I'm going to do that anyway regardless so may as well for a while and see what comes up, my killdudes are fine right now. And who knows, maybe I'll get an artifact longbow, or find a nice shield worth having, or something else that will help make the decision.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Monday, 1st August 2016, 14:58

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

I'd use the demon whip, but without a shield. Especially don't train shields, Trog can in any minute give you a weapon that will make you reconsider.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Monday, 1st August 2016, 19:36

Re: CIP GrBe: 1-handed or 2-handed?

Well, as it turned out, I found a manual of Bows. So that settled that: no shield, demon whip/long bow. Finally found the scroll of brand weapon, I have a +8 longbow of flaming and a +9 longbow of freezing. It's rough.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

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