OpMo of Elyvilon


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Zot Zealot

Posts: 1001

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Saturday, 3rd November 2018, 12:53

OpMo of Elyvilon

I would like to ask some skilling advice before I die while trying to completing the weekly challenge http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~ebering/crawl/csdc/5.html.

In short, I am trying to reach Depths 5 and Elf 3 without entering a rune branch with this OpMo of Elyvilon.

Char dump : http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/sanka/morgue-sanka-20181106-192659.txt

Question: what to train?

1. Train just more defenses: Fighting/Dodging.
2. Pick up a regular shield and train shields. (only +0 regular and large shields generated so far).
3. Keep training invocations, use Elyvilion abilities with faith a lot. Kill monsters immune to it with might potions, etc.
4. Use holy double sword, train long blades for it? (Not sure if it is better than the quick blade).
5. Transfer to unarmed, learn blade hands. (No statue form, only dragon form.)
6. Pick up some high level conjurations, like Bolt of fire. (I have wiz rings also somewhere.)

Any other, better options?
Thanks for any advice, even if I die before actually using it.

EDIT: fix char dump
Last edited by sanka on Friday, 16th November 2018, 11:01, edited 2 times in total.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 775

Joined: Sunday, 23rd June 2013, 15:20

Post Saturday, 3rd November 2018, 17:35

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

Your char dump link doesnt work.

Dodging/fighting is always solid if you are happy with damage output right now. Do not go unarmed. If you want more damage go double sword. Shield is a good idea, if you dont train too much and dont use spells.

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sanka

Spider Stomper

Posts: 241

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Saturday, 3rd November 2018, 21:07

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

You have two options that are fairly reliable but also depend on luck:

1) Rely on transmutations this is either a shield and statue form or dragon form
2) rely on summons.

Both of these will heavily depend on luck.

Now of course an Op has more options than this in a general sense but you are stipulating a fairly fast progression into area that spawn potentiall very dangerous monsters.

I do not view a normal Op with only dodge sufficient for depths, you can die very very fast. Dragon form kills fast enough with enough AC to be Ok if you are smart, shield+statue is good defense and offense. I have done Depths on an Op as no-transmutation Oka with shield and I had to use a lot of heroism and finesse so I don't think raw Op with dodge+shield is great but perhaps its doable with ely and probably some good training in translocation.

Summons is doable but problematic from a probability standpoint because will need at least two books. Anything with summon ice beast can get you to D13 fine, but you will eventually need monstrous menagerie/malign gateway. That combo can get you through Zot if necessary once on line though. Unfortunately you would be under penance if you use malign gateway and that is the strongest spell for this method, however other summons can do it.

My first off the bat reccomendation would be Dragon Form, but finding it early enough will be like 1/6 chance(this may be wrong in trunk these are based on Hellcrawl obersvations where I did Op on no-branch run which is a harder conduct than this but has different Xp curve).

Tips for dragon form:
1) getting it castable is your first priority. Even with really bad skills Dragon Form will hit very hard and hit well. You can do 50 damage with like 6/6 UC/fighting.
2) ozo armor etc can help alot.
3) you gotta kill fast and if you are not killing fast, run. But a high end dragon can hit for 200 damage. This can sometimes change for Op if they get many AC/EV rings. DO NOT plan on this happening. It can happen and if it does you will probably be missing some resistances.
4) an Op Dragon's Hp is similar to an ogre.
5) you really need to find rC or balance out the rC-, so if you find a ring of cold its worth wearing just to not have vuln (obviously take it off near fire giants and other fireballers)

In general the Ely heal may work very well with dragon, I have never actually tried and am now curious. Op Dragon form is EXTREMELY hard hitting you only real problem with the way rolls work in DCSS you can always hit very low no matter how hard you can hit, so a bad run of luck can leave you behind the 8-ball and Ely has a fairly singular way to adjust the odds back in your favor with heals.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1001

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Saturday, 3rd November 2018, 21:49

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

I reached the end of Depths relatively easily with the quickblade and just dodging. The only dangerous encounter was with a Tentacled monstrosity who almost killed me, but I made mistakes fighting it. I killed the other monstrosities (about 5?) without any problem.

I either clean Depth 5 or go to Elf now. I would like some MR for elf though because I do not want to be banished. Abyss is a rune branch!

My big mistake was against a mutating demon. WHen it came into LOS, I wanted to place a lightning spire between us, but I accidentally summoned an ice beast instead. In this round she mutated me and I got berserkitis 1. I berserked a lot since then, since I use a quickblade, and I guess berserk chance is per attack?

I do not think dragon form is a good option for this character, as it is unlikely I will be able to cast it and have some UC.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 241

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Saturday, 3rd November 2018, 22:37

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

sanka wrote:I reached the end of Depths relatively easily with the quickblade and just dodging. The only dangerous encounter was with a Tentacled monstrosity who almost killed me, but I made mistakes fighting it. I killed the other monstrosities (about 5?) without any problem.

I either clean Depth 5 or go to Elf now. I would like some MR for elf though because I do not want to be banished. Abyss is a rune branch!

My big mistake was against a mutating demon. WHen it came into LOS, I wanted to place a lightning spire between us, but I accidentally summoned an ice beast instead. In this round she mutated me and I got berserkitis 1. I berserked a lot since then, since I use a quickblade, and I guess berserk chance is per attack?

I do not think dragon form is a good option for this character, as it is unlikely I will be able to cast it and have some UC.


At this point dragon is pointless, you would have wanted to find it in Dungeon and preferably trained some Transmutations as well. You best bet is to continue down summoning if you can. Elf is gonna be a crap shoot with out some decent MR, also a DE archer or fencer will have a very good chance of killing you and IB is probably not enough to kill them.

I assume you found the summoning starter book, as soon as you got that you are basically into the summoning build. Which is one of the more likely solutions to the problem. So I am not surprised you got fairly far. The issues here is to do Elf decently reliably you kinda need some other upgraded summon (Mana viper or menagerie or both.)

Its possible to clear Elf being very careful, and you can definitely do the elf 1-2. But its easily possible to get banished or get one of the high end fighter elves doing something unlucky. If you can clog things up with summons you might be able to prevent the banish, but I think an archer or masterfencer would probably slaughter IB fast.

Its doable, but pretty risky on Elf3. Same would be true of dragon though, dragon's even worse really. You basically need MR rings or summons to block the banish.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8782

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 4th November 2018, 00:00

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

sanka, you're already better at the game than anyone who's likely to give you advice on Tavern.

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nago

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1001

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Monday, 5th November 2018, 19:36

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

Thanks duvessa, maybe I just need to try out whatever seems plausible. I just lack the patience to calculate the actual benefits of training things, like how useful is to train Invo with Ely over 20, or switch from the quick blade to something else for high AC rElec monsters (how common are they?). You are right that sometimes there are some strange advice here, but occasionally somebody with much more knowledge than me answers!

I reached Elf 3 without any problem, it was not hard. New dump in the old link.

I finally had 17 curing potions and went into the trove.

Got:
  Code:
 g - the ring "Yptyp" (left tentacle) {rCorr MP+9 Dex+5 Slay+2}
 m - the ring "Wuvvej" (on tentacle) {rC+ rN+ Str+6 SInv}
12 potions of mutation
the +4 shield of Apathy (worn) {MR+ rCorr Str+3 Stlth+}


Now the next question is the following battleaxe I found in Elf in a shop for 1746 gold:
The +10 battleaxe "Killer Bee's Peril" {speed, rElec rF- rC+++ Dex+6}

I do not know if it worths to train axes so far in the game. I most likely won't train axes, and stay with the quickblade. It woked ok so far.
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Spider Stomper

Posts: 187

Joined: Thursday, 6th November 2014, 17:19

Location: Canada

Post Monday, 5th November 2018, 20:52

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

Wow, a high cost & high reward trove. Lucky!!!

Looking forward to see if you'll be part of the few to get 10 pts in CSDC for the OpMo week. :-D

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1001

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Monday, 5th November 2018, 21:50

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

I still have 2 points to collect!

Currently in Vaults 3, my question again: what should I train? Fighting? Invocations? Dodging? Shields? Spell skills for Deflect Missile? Or something else? I have no idea about the benefit/cost ratio of skills, most of the time I just train one randomly.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4426

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 6th November 2018, 13:32

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

I see you got 3rd rune. Will it be a 3 rune game? If not, go for Statue Form. If yes, then still consider going for Statue Form, probably you can get it online with multiple wizardry from Zot 1-4 XP.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1001

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Tuesday, 6th November 2018, 19:28

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

Thanks for the answers. I won the game!

It seems that with a little bit a slaying an elec quickblade is enough to kill anything (at least in a 3 rune game). Also, 56 EV is effective.

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/sanka/morgue-sanka-20181106-192659.txt

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Airwolf
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Spider Stomper

Posts: 187

Joined: Thursday, 6th November 2014, 17:19

Location: Canada

Post Tuesday, 6th November 2018, 19:54

Re: OpMo of Elyvilon

Bravo on the win!
...and for catching up to me on the CSDC.

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