CIP DsWz Changing plans?


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Snake Sneak

Posts: 112

Joined: Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 17:13

Location: California

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 19:44

CIP DsWz Changing plans?

I've been trying to get a Kiku character going lately. I figured that starting with a necromancer seemed like a waste of Kiku's first gift book, since most of the spells would be in the Book of Necromancy. So I figured starting with another book class would give a bit of breadth to cover situations where necromancy might be weak. I tried TeAE for a bit, but found them to be a bit fragile, so I gave a DsWz a try.

He started out well, finding a Young Poisoner's handbook on D:3.
  Code:
 Spells                             Type                      Level
 a - Sting                        Conjuration/Poison            1
 b - Cure Poison                  Poison                        2
 c - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
 d - Olgreb's Toxic Radiance      Poison                        4
 e - Venom Bolt                   Conjuration/Poison            5

It's got some nice spells, like Cure Poison, OTR and Venom Bolt. So I leaned a bit more towards poison (was going to do some anyways because of Mephitic Cloud). I still haven't found a Kiku altar by D:6, but I just found a book of Annihilations.

  Code:
 Spells                             Type                      Level
 a - Poison Arrow                 Conjuration/Poison            6
 b - Chain Lightning              Conjuration/Air               8
 c - Lehudib's Crystal Spear      Conjuration/Earth             8
 d - Glaciate                     Conjuration/Ice               9
 e - Fire Storm                   Conjuration/Fire              9


Now I'm wondering if I even want to continue to Kiku and Necromancy, or maybe try an alternate tack. He's got all the offensive spells he could want. Actually, more than he can use, since I'll only be doing a 3 rune game, having never won at all, and I doubt I can get those L9 spells online before I've won or died.

If I decide to go with a different god, what do you recommend? I don't really see much need for Vehumet or Sif Muna as far as spell gifts, but their other powers might be nice. Or maybe I should go with a god who can help round out the character in other directions?

Suggestions would be appreciated. Remember, I'm fairly inexperienced, I've only had one game where I even got any runes (a MiBe who got gossamer and decaying before splatting on V:3). I've ascended a number of times in Nethack, so I'm not really a novice at rougelikes, but I haven't gotten the hang of DCSS yet.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1804-gf6433eb (webtiles) character file.

BugHunter the Conjurer (Demonspawn Wizard)          Turns: 8685, Time: 00:48:12

Health: 52/52      AC:  8    Str:  7    XL:     8   Next: 25%
Magic:  13/13      EV: 12    Int: 20    God:   
Gold:   250        SH:  0    Dex: 13    Spells: 6 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     a - +1 short sword (speed)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     Z - +2 robe {MR+}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     b - +0 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     D - +2 pair of boots
MR     +....                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++........               (no ring)
                                F - -3 ring of intelligence (curse)

@: very slightly contaminated, repel missiles, somewhat resistant to hostile
enchantments, unstealthy
A: hooves 2, horns 1, molten scales 1, clever 1, powered by death 1, powered by
pain 2
a: no special abilities


You are on level 6 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 6 of its levels.

You have collected 250 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +1 short sword of speed (weapon)
 h - a hunting sling
 w - a dagger of distortion
 y - a +0 short sword of speed
 A - an enchanted whip
Missiles
 f - 80 stones
 g - 65 poisoned needles
 p - 35 sling bullets
 G - 9 tomahawks (quivered)
 N - 8 needles of paralysis
 R - 2 exploding tomahawks
Armour
 b - a +0 hat (worn)
 l - a +0 robe
 D - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 Z - a +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
Jewellery
 v - a jade ring
 F - a cursed -3 ring of intelligence (left hand)
 J - a tourmaline ring
 M - an encrusted peridot ring
Magical devices
 r - a wand of magic darts
 L - a wand of draining
 S - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
 V - a wand of confusion {zapped: 2}
Scrolls
 k - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 X - a scroll of amnesia
Potions
 s - 2 potions of might
 x - a bubbling brown potion
 C - 2 potions of brilliance
 K - a puce potion
 P - a black potion
 Q - 2 amethyst potions
 T - 2 potions of curing
 Y - 2 orange potions
Books
 c - a book of Minor Magic   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Magic Dart                   Conjuration                   1
    b - Blink                        Translocation                 2
    c - Call Imp                     Summoning                     2
    d - Repel Missiles               Charms/Air                    2
    e - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    f - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    g - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
 H - a Young Poisoner's Handbook   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Sting                        Conjuration/Poison            1
    b - Cure Poison                  Poison                        2
    c - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
    d - Olgreb's Toxic Radiance      Poison                        4
    e - Venom Bolt                   Conjuration/Poison            5
 I - a book of Annihilations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Poison Arrow                 Conjuration/Poison            6
    b - Chain Lightning              Conjuration/Air               8
    c - Lehudib's Crystal Spear      Conjuration/Earth             8
    d - Glaciate                     Conjuration/Ice               9
    e - Fire Storm                   Conjuration/Fire              9
Comestibles
 d - a bread ration
 j - 7 fruits
 q - 3 beef jerkies
 t - 4 meat rations


   Skills:
 - Level 0.3 Short Blades
 + Level 2.1 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 + Level 3.5 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.0 Conjurations
 - Level 2.2 Summonings
   Level 0.8 Translocations
 - Level 3.1 Air Magic
 - Level 4.6 Poison Magic
 + Level 0.2 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
c - Cure Poison           Pois           ###.......   3%          2    ##.....
i - Call Imp              Summ           ##......     10%         2    ##.....
m - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ###.....     8%          3    ###....
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       14%         2    ##.....
s - Sting                 Conj/Pois      ####         1%          1    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (6/15)           
Temple: D:4-7       

Altars:
Nemelex Xobeh

Shops:
D:5 ?=

Annotations:
D:4 frogmouthbird's ghost, average DECj


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have hoof-like feet.
You are partially covered in molten scales (AC +1).
You regenerate a little health from kills.
You sometimes gain power by taking damage.
You have a pair of small horns on your head.
Your mind is acute. (Int +2)


Message History

As you read the scroll labeled WOIQOE SIPHYI, it crumbles to dust.
It was a scroll of blinking.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll labeled BAWAFI FIXIF, it crumbles to dust.
You assume a fearsome visage. Nothing appears to happen.
It was a scroll of fear.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll labeled XAWUOG ZUSM, it crumbles to dust.
The air around you briefly surges with heat, but it dissipates.
It was a scroll of immolation.
Char dumped successfully.
Memorise Repel Missiles, consuming 2 spell levels and leaving 3?
You start memorising the spell. You continue memorising.
You continue memorising.
You finish memorising. Spell assigned to 'b'.
Adjust (i)tems, (s)pells, or (a)bilities?
Adjust which spell?
b - Repel Missiles
Adjust to which letter?
r - Repel Missiles

           .#
          #.#
          #.#
          #.#
          #.#
          #.#   ###
       ####.#  ##.#######
     ###....####.........
     #..@#.........#####.
.........................
..............##########.
.#.###.####.#.#        #.
..   #.  .....#        #.
.    ## ###.###        #.
          #+#          #.
                       #.
                       ..


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Eustachio (D:5)
  A hippogriff (D:6)
  2 black bears (D:6)
  A sky beast (D:5)
  An orc warrior (D:5)
  A scorpion (D:5)
  The ghost of Art the Poker, a weakling DsWn of Xom (D:6)
  4 orc priests
  Ijyb (D:4)
  A centaur skeleton (D:5)
  Jessica (D:2)
  4 orc wizards
  A worker ant (D:5)
  4 adders
  2 gnolls (D:2)
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  An ooze (D:1)
  3 worms
  7 giant geckos
  10 orcs
  9 bats
  5 giant cockroaches
  16 goblins
  8 hobgoblins
  A ball python (D:1)
  9 giant newts
  10 jackals
  6 kobolds
  3 quokkas (D:2)
  10 rats
125 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  2 gnolls (D:2)
  An adder (D:2)
  An orc (D:3)
  A giant newt (D:3)
5 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 130 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | BugHunter the Demonspawn Wizard began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 4/4
   121 | D:1      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in molten scales (AC +1). [demonic ancestry]
   121 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 4/6
   572 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
   620 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp
  1074 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. [demonic ancestry]
  1074 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 13/24 MP: 0/7
  1082 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
  1923 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
  1926 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
  1953 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You have large cloven feet. [demonic ancestry]
  1953 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 6/8
  1976 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  1983 | D:2      | Killed Jessica
  3385 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You have hoof-like feet. [demonic ancestry]
  3385 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 9/35 MP: 0/9
  4929 | D:3      | Gained mutation: You regenerate a little health from kills. [demonic ancestry]
  4929 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/41 MP: 4/10
  5232 | D:3      | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [potion of beneficial mutation]
  5233 | D:3      | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of beneficial mutation]
  5263 | D:4      | Learned a level 1 spell: Sting
  5266 | D:4      | Learned a level 2 spell: Cure Poison
  5449 | D:4      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  5451 | D:4      | Noticed frogmouthbird's ghost (average DECj)
  5819 | D:4      | Noticed Ijyb
  5986 | D:4      | Killed Ijyb
  6158 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6401 | D:5      | Found Gesiywk's Jewellery Emporium.
  6668 | D:5      | Noticed Eustachio
  6688 | D:5      | Killed Eustachio
  6688 | D:5      | Reached skill level 4 in Conjurations
  6820 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/46 MP: 2/11
  6915 | D:5      | Found Xocised's Magic Scroll Boutique.
  7125 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  7684 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Conjurations
  7873 | D:6      | Upgraded the game from 0.17-a0-1801-g1f4bb98 to 0.17-a0-1804-gf6433eb
  8009 | D:6      | Noticed Art's ghost (weakling DsWn)
  8024 | D:6      | Killed Art's ghost
  8089 | D:6      | Gained mutation: You sometimes gain power by taking damage. [demonic ancestry]
  8089 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 52/52 MP: 2/12
  8187 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Conjurations
  8685 | D:6      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    24 |       |       ||    24
       Short sword       |    16 |    33 |    36 ||    85
Throw: Stone             |     3 |       |       ||     3
       Throwing net      |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Tomahawk          |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    89 |   202 |    78 ||   369
       Repel Missiles    |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Call Imp          |     2 |     5 |       ||     7
       Sting             |       |     2 |    40 ||    42
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |     1 |     6 ||     7
       Cure Poison       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Potion            |       |     4 |       ||     4
       Scroll            |       |     6 |     4 ||    10
 Stab: Confused          |       |     2 |     2 ||     4
  Eat: Chunk             |     3 |    15 |     2 ||    20
       Bread ration      |       |       |     1 ||     1
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 1788

Joined: Saturday, 29th June 2013, 16:52

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 21:15

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

Well, the nice thing about Kiku is that he's going to give you spells you don't already have. Veh would just gift you redundant spells; you have basically the full set of poison spells, including poison arrow, which is a legitimately rad spell; I guess Veh might gift you IOOD, which would be helpful for this character. Sif would be fine, since I think Sif's gifts are partially dependent on the books you've already seen, but Sif gifts are slow.

Kiku would more or less be guaranteed to give you spells you don't have, and they'd all be pretty good spells for fighting things that are rPois and Dispel Undead, which means that you can fight basically everything until Zot:1 without any concern.

Otherwise, just be sure to start training fighting and dodging in the very near future. The easiest way not to die with a DE is to take everything real slow and peel enemies away from packs until you have a good AOE spell or can just murderize everything with high level spells. Retreat before you run out of MP.
User avatar

Dis Charger

Posts: 1949

Joined: Monday, 18th February 2013, 07:59

Location: France

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 22:28

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

Try all those rings ASAP.

@archaeo : he's no DE but Ds... So I'd say go Kiku, and play an hybrid. He's already the PbD mutation...
Online stats
Fastest Hell runes (enter Hell branch -> get the rune)
Icy : 56 / Iron : 126 / Obsidian : 215 / Bone : 125

Snake Sneak

Posts: 112

Joined: Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 17:13

Location: California

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 22:49

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

I haven't tried the rings because of a lack of remove curse (haven't found any). You'll note that he's currently wearing a cursed -3 Int ring, which I'd very much like to get rid of. I don't want to try any other rings until I know I can remove them. Right now I'm sneaking around D:6 trying to avoid a pack of wights, since I've found that I have nothing that will hurt them in any significant way. The last thing I need now is a cursed ring of loudness, for instance.

Going Kiku is sounding good. I did find the Temple branching from D:6 and have now found altars for everyone but Ash and Dith. I'll wait a bit to give more people a chance to reply with other suggestions before making a final decision. Right now I'm just skulking about rounding things out a bit, like getting short blades and dodging up a few points, and getting blink and slow up to reasonable failure rates. Things I know I need to do regardless of which god I go with.

Hmmm, is short blades a mistake? I started raising it because the only branded weapons I've found are:
  • +1 short sword of speed (weapon)
  • +0 short sword of speed
  • dagger of distortion
  • morningstar of protection
  • short sword of draining

I guess the morningstar of protection makes a certain amount of sense at the moment. So in the short run do I want offense (the short sword of speed), or defense (morningstar of protection)? Or should I think more about the long run, when short blades might not perform as well against tougher opponents?
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 1788

Joined: Saturday, 29th June 2013, 16:52

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 22:53

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

mopl wrote:@archaeo : he's no DE but Ds... So I'd say go Kiku, and play an hybrid. He's already the PbD mutation...

Oops! How stupid of me.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 23:06

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

Those weapons are all garbage, the only exception is the disto dagger. In general, shart blades are only good if you are stabbing, or if they are elec, pain or distortion.

Distortion is pretty annoying, blinking dudes away, sometimes blinking them behind you. Also, you cannot swap weapos (for a blowgun, a rod, or whatever). But it does very good damage.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 112

Joined: Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 17:13

Location: California

Post Friday, 11th September 2015, 23:26

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

Yeah, I know they're not much, but they're all I've got at this point. If I'm going to start training a weapon now, I've got to pick something. I know enough about distortion to know I don't want to mess with one. I'd like to be able to use a blowgun, if one ever turns up. I've got a hunting sling that I'd like to use, but without a remove curse handy, I'm hesitant to even try it. A few days back, I tried an unID'd hunting sling on D:2, which turned out to be cursed -2. I didn't find a remove curse until D:5 or 6, and this was with a Gl. Not a lot of fun.

It's actually been a pretty poor game as far as loot generation. No remove curse, no decent weapons, poor wands. But I have found a couple of nice books, so I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

Edit: Right now, one of my main attack methods is Mephitic Cloud, followed by stabbity-stab-stab. So the short blades fits very nicely with that. Except, of course, for those thrice-cursed wights.

Extra, bonus, side question. The wiki page for Kiku (which says it is up to date for 0.16) says the first book might contain the Lethal Infusion spell. But the wiki page for the Lethal Infusion spell (which claims to be up to date for 0.15) says the spell was removed in 0.15. Was it added back in 0.16, or is the Kiku page not really up to date for 0.16?

Snake Sneak

Posts: 112

Joined: Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 17:13

Location: California

Post Saturday, 12th September 2015, 23:42

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

Well, I got as far as Lair:3 before getting killed. I did go with Kiku, managed to find a remove curse scroll on Lair:1 and get my rings squared away, and found an interesting sword:
  Code:
K - the +1 great sword "Raorull" (weapon) {drain, -Tele rElec MR+++ Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.


The MR+++ was pretty attractive. The -Tele less so. But it was the best thing I had, so I went with it. Was having fun with Mephitic Cloud + Ignite Poison.

But I got myself killed when I was dealing with a black mamba, was just starting to get to the point where I should have bugged out, and a swarm of blink frogs showed up. I wasted a turn trying to blink while still wielding the above sword, then spent a turn unwielding it, then blinked to another spot next to the mamba, then finally thought of using a potion of invis, but by this time I was surrounded and critically low on HP, and they managed to get me before I could even read a scroll of tele. I guess I shoulda pulled the plug as soon as I saw the first blink frog. Or maybe when I saw the black mamba. I'm still learning when to run away.

What felt like my biggest weakness was lack of ability to deliver damage quickly. My stringest attack spell was pain, which only does 1d9 when maxed (which it was). Mephitic Cloud doesn't help much against poison resistant monsters, like spiny frogs, water mocs, and finally the mamba. Trying to get tem in the cloud and then ignite it was challenging, because they wouldn't be in it long enough to do much damage unless I was right at the edge, in which case my lack of AC meant *I* took a lot of damage. I was working on my dodging, but I guess I should have made it more of a priority.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1509

Joined: Wednesday, 21st September 2011, 01:10

Location: St. John's, NL, Canada

Post Sunday, 13th September 2015, 04:36

Re: CIP DsWz Changing plans?

Incidentally I think you played very sensibly to be paranoid without a known remove curse.
Won all race/bg, unwon (online): Nem* Hep Uka
Favourites: 15-rune Trog, OgNe/OgIE/OgSu (usually Ash), Ds, Ru, SpEn, Ce of Chei, Qaz

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