[YAVP] Mf Transmuter eventually won.

[nordetsa]

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1738-g82cdc46 (tiles) character file.

Changer the Black Belt (Merfolk Transmuter)        Turns: 27769, Time: 02:04:32

Health: 124/170    AC:  6    Str: 12    XL:     17   Next: 22%
Magic:  27/27      EV: 30    Int: 13    God:    Dithmenos [******]
Gold:   109        SH:  0    Dex: 23    Spells: 9 memorised, 1 level left

rFire  x . .     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  + + +     Clarity  .     (armour currently unavailable)
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  +         Gourm    +     (helmet currently unavailable)
rElec  +         Spirit   .     (cloak currently unavailable)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     (gloves currently unavailable)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (boots currently unavailable)
MR     +....                    B - amulet "Sibes" {Gourm rElec rPois rN+}
Stlth  ++++++....               e - ring of wizardry
                                k - ring of Xom's Amusement {rPois EV+6 Dex+4 Stlth-}

@: ice-form, very slightly contaminated, wreathed by umbra, somewhat resistant
to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: (change form in water), (swift swim), high mp 1
a: End Transformation, Shadow Step, Shadow Form, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Swamp.
You worship Dithmenos.
Dithmenos is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

You are a creature of crystalline ice.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 26 of its levels.
You have also visited: Bailey.

You have collected 2914 gold pieces.
You have spent 2805 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Missiles
 a - 88 arrows
 A - 33 arrows of flame
Armour
 m - a +0 helmet (melded)
 p - a +0 pair of gloves (melded)
 y - a +3 leather armour of cold resistance (melded)
Jewellery
 e - a ring of wizardry (right front paw)
 i - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 k - the ring of Xom's Amusement (left front paw) {rPois EV+6 Dex+4 Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+6).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 B - the amulet "Sibes" (around neck) {Gourm rElec rPois rN+}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   
   It allows you to eat raw meat even when not hungry.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 Q - an uncursed ring of positive energy
Magical devices
 C - a wand of disintegration
 F - a wand of slowing
 K - a wand of hasting
 L - a wand of polymorph {zapped: 8}
 P - a wand of lightning
 R - a wand of cold
 T - a wand of lightning
Scrolls
 b - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 l - 7 scrolls of recharging
 q - 9 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 10 scrolls of remove curse
 t - 5 scrolls of enchant armour
 z - 5 scrolls of fear
 H - 3 scrolls of identify
 U - 2 scrolls of fog
 V - a scroll of blinking
Potions
 g - 2 potions of brilliance
 n - 3 potions of flight
 o - a potion of invisibility
 s - 15 potions of curing
 u - 9 potions of heal wounds
 w - 2 potions of resistance
 x - a potion of haste
 D - 7 potions of agility
 G - 2 glowing purple potions
 I - 6 potions of might
 J - a silvery potion
Books
 c - a book of Changes   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Beastly Appendage            Transmutation                 1
    b - Sticks to Snakes             Transmutation                 2
    c - Spider Form                  Transmutation/Poison          3
    d - Ice Form                     Ice/Transmutation             4
    e - Blade Hands                  Transmutation                 5
 O - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Stoneskin                    Transmutation/Earth           2
    b - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    c - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    d - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    e - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
Miscellaneous
 N - a phantom mirror
Comestibles
 d - 17 bread rations
 f - 18 royal jellies
 h - 12 meat rations
 j - 4 chunks of flesh
 v - 4 beef jerkies
 E - 3 slices of pizza
 M - 39 fruits


   Skills:
 - Level 15.0 Fighting
 - Level 15.0 Dodging
 - Level 8.4 Stealth
 - Level 15.9 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 5.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 2.0 Charms
 - Level 1.3 Translocations
 * Level 13.3 Transmutations
 - Level 6.4 Ice Magic
 - Level 1.3 Poison Magic
 - Level 10.2 Invocations


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Beastly Appendage     Trmt           #####.       1%          1    None
b - Sticks to Snakes      Trmt           #####.....   1%          2    ##.....
c - Spider Form           Trmt/Pois      ###.......   1%          3    ###....
d - Ice Form              Ice/Trmt       ####....     1%          4    ####...
e - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       9%          2    ##.....
f - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          7%          2    ##.....
g - Blade Hands           Trmt           #####.....   1%          5    ######.
h - Condensation Shield   Ice            ###.......   6%          4    ####...
i - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ###.....     1%          2    ##.....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:9
  Swamp (2/4) Lair:5        Snake (0/4) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:4       

Seems like I have two options I can take:

1) Use blade hands as my main offense, find some better armor like dragon armor or good randart ringmail. Maybe up to scale mail perhaps?
2) Use hydra form and statue form, since it gives me both defense and offence (especially latter). Stay below leather/robe and start training for transmutation/earth skills.

Thoughts and/or advice? Doing hybrid class seems always like a puzzling job.

[radinms]

both are good options.
if you get good armour, go blade hands+ armour. otherwise you should go statue form.

[mopl]

Go Hydra Form !

To be honest, BH + OK armour is probably better, but Hydra Form is good and you do not have the chance to find it on every Tm you'll play. Mf have good Tm apt, so you'll have it online soon. It's really worth the try.

Did you find Ozo armour ? Really good synergy with forms.

[nordetsa]

Didn't find Ozo. I got +0 Steam Dragon Armor. Still torn between the two options... Is hydra form that good?

[nago]

It's good, but not better than bh. In other words you can use it you want to try it, otherwise bh+good armour is generally a wiser choice

[nordetsa]

What armor would be classified as 'good armor'? I was actually heading towards using statue form...

Edit: Okay, so in the vault I found this:

  Code:

 a - +8 chain mail of the Moon {Int+3}

I *can* actually cast blade hands while wearing it:

  Code:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Beastly Appendage     Trmt           ######       1%          1    None
b - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ###.......   95%         3    #......
c - Hydra Form            Trmt           ######....   47%         6    ######.
d - Ice Form              Ice/Trmt       #####...     24%         4    ###....
e - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ###...       87%         2    None
f - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          54%         2    None
g - Blade Hands           Trmt           ######....   10%         5    #####..
h - Condensation Shield   Ice            ####......   99%         4    ###....
i - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
j - Statue Form           Trmt/Erth      ######...    98%         6    ######.


But as you can see, other spells I've been using are significantly hampered. Maybe 16 str is not enough to overcome the encumberance rating. Anyhow, would the artefact armor be considered 'good' enough to use it with blade hands, forfeiting hydra form and statue form (along with other spells)?

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

I'd go for decent armour (the best one that doesn't hinder spellcasting too much), and use BH or SF depending on the situation. In extended, statform >> everything else.

[nordetsa]

Well... that seems to be what I'm wearing right now: +0 Steam Dragon Armor. Maybe I should look out for fire dragons for FDA? I do have several EA scrolls lying around. And if statform in extended is good, I don't see the reason why I shouldn't just use it now. I already lowered statue form failure around 12% already.

[Sandman25]

And if statform in extended is good, I don't see the reason why I shouldn't just use it now.

Main benefit of SF in extended is protection from torment, it is useless now.

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

See also: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17049

It gives some ballpark figures how much extra skilling is required to wear heavier armour and keep casting.

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

And if statform in extended is good, I don't see the reason why I shouldn't just use it now.

Main benefit of SF in extended is protection from torment, it is useless now.

Huge increase in damage output, good AC, an improved offense/defense ratio is useless now?

[Sandman25]

And if statform in extended is good, I don't see the reason why I shouldn't just use it now.

Main benefit of SF in extended is protection from torment, it is useless now.

Huge increase in damage output, good AC, an improved offense/damage ratio is useless now?

Main benefit of SF in extended is protection from torment, protection from torment is useless now.

[nordetsa]

See also: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17049

It gives some ballpark figures how much extra skilling is required to wear heavier armour and keep casting.

Uh... that chart looks really confusing. Can't figure out how to read it at all... what does the number suggests anyway? Apparently if I'm wearing a scalemail with 16 str and 0 Armor skill I get a value of 7.5. 7.5 of what exactly?

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

See also: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17049

It gives some ballpark figures how much extra skilling is required to wear heavier armour and keep casting.

Uh... that chart looks really confusing. Can't figure out how to read it at all... what does the number suggests anyway? Apparently if I'm wearing a scalemail with 16 str and 0 Armor skill I get a value of 7.5. 7.5 of what exactly?

You'd need to raise the spell skill 7.5 levels to get to the same fail% as without armour. And of course, with dual-school spells it's the required average.

Edit: And it's not that helpful if you have more skill that is required to reach 1%. But as I said, it gives some ballpark figure on how much each armour hinders spell success.

[nordetsa]

See also: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17049

It gives some ballpark figures how much extra skilling is required to wear heavier armour and keep casting.

Uh... that chart looks really confusing. Can't figure out how to read it at all... what does the number suggests anyway? Apparently if I'm wearing a scalemail with 16 str and 0 Armor skill I get a value of 7.5. 7.5 of what exactly?

You'd need to raise the spell skill 7.5 levels to get to the same fail% as without armour. And of course, with dual-school spells it's the required average.

Edit: And it's not that helpful if you have more skill that is required to reach 1%. But as I said, it gives some ballpark figure on how much each armour hinders spell success.

Thanks for the reply!

Still, I need to decide what armor would I want, and what spells I'm gonna use. If what nago said is true, then wearing the chain mail actually seems good, because it does provide good AC and I can still cast blade hands without much problem. And find other armor later for extended to use it along with statue form.

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

Still, I need to decide what armor would I want, and what spells I'm gonna use. If what nago said is true, then wearing the chain mail actually seems good, because it does provide good AC and I can still cast blade hands without much problem. And find other armor later for extended to use it along with statue form.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

Note that the chain mail slows down your UC attack though. With Str 16, you'd need ~16.5 Armour skill to overcome that penalty. Compared to armour of ER 11 or lower, where that number is 0.

(viewtopic.php?p=228822#p228822)

[nordetsa]

Yeah, which is the reason I changed my armor to FDA. Can still cast hydra form if necessary, guess that's gonna be my armor for now.

[Eyesburn]

Main benefit of SF in extended is protection from torment, protection from torment is useless now.

Sorry, I didn't play for some time, why protection from torment is useless now in the extended ?

[Sandman25]

Main benefit of SF in extended is protection from torment, protection from torment is useless now.

Sorry, I didn't play for some time, why protection from torment is useless now in the extended ?

The character is not in extended. "Now" referred to its location (Swamp 1, I guess?).

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

"Communication usually fails, except by accident."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiio's_laws

[nago]

In trunk armors don't slow UC (or throwing) anymore

[mopl]

In trunk armors don't slow UC (or throwing) anymore

What ? So no problem for Troll-GDA now ? That's a big thing for Tm...

[tasonir]

Trolls should always have worn GDA's (in those rare cases where they are available and enchanted highly and you aren't going statue form), they just formerly needed a high armor skill to remove the penalty. Now there just is no penalty to begin with

[mopl]

Trolls should always have worn GDA's (in those rare cases where they are available and enchanted highly and you aren't going statue form), they just formerly needed a high armor skill to remove the penalty. Now there just is no penalty to begin with

IIRC you couldn't get rid f the UC penalty... Is this really gone now ?

[nago]

yes , and that doesn't change much for Tr - who should use the first dragon armour they find anyway - and for Tm - who should just use form until Lair\midgame, then BH which is so wellbalanced that was extremely good even with heavy armour and penalties.

[nordetsa]

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1738-g82cdc46 (tiles) character file.

2232605 Changer the Grand Master (level 27, 230/249 HPs)
             Began as a Merfolk Transmuter on Aug 31, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Dithmenos.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes on Sept 2, 2015!
             
             The game lasted 07:22:49 (80713 turns).

Changer the Grand Master (Merfolk Transmuter)      Turns: 80713, Time: 07:22:50

Health: 230/249    AC: 33    Str: 17    XL:     27
Magic:  33/33      EV: 23    Int: 15    God:    Dithmenos [******]
Gold:   4520       SH:  0    Dex: 21    Spells: 14 memorised, 0 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +       - Unarmed
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     Q - +8 fire dragon armour
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  +         Gourm    +     T - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     G - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     j - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     W - +1 pair of boots
MR     ++...                    B - amulet "Sibes" {Gourm rElec rPois rN+}
Stlth  ++........               P - ring "Sayd" {+Fly rElec rC+ Slay+3}
                                i - ring of protection from cold

@: very slightly contaminated, wreathed by umbra, repel missiles, very resistant
to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: change form in water, swift swim, blurry vision 1, clarity, deterioration 1,
low mp 1
a: Shadow Step, Shadow Form, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
0: Orb of Zot
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver


You escaped.
You worshipped Dithmenos.
Dithmenos was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and saw 63 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You visited 1 ziggurat, and saw 10 of its levels.
You also visited: Trove and Bailey.

You collected 9173 gold pieces.
You spent 4653 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Missiles
 x - 19 javelins
 F - 7 silver javelins (quivered)
Armour
 j - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 s - a +1 cloak of poison resistance
 G - a +2 cloak (worn)
 Q - a +8 fire dragon armour (worn)
 T - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 W - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
Rods
 e - a +4 lightning rod (14/14)
   (You took it off a deep elf death mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
Jewellery
 i - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 k - the ring of Xom's Amusement {rPois EV+6 Dex+4 Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+6).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 B - the amulet "Sibes" (around neck) {Gourm rElec rPois rN+}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   
   It allows you to eat raw meat even when not hungry.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 L - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 P - the ring "Sayd" (right hand) {+Fly rElec rC+ Slay+3}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [ring of flight]
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+3).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
Magical devices
 J - a wand of digging (9)
 K - a wand of hasting (3)
Scrolls
 b - 9 scrolls of magic mapping
 c - a scroll of holy word
 l - 8 scrolls of recharging
 q - 20 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 36 scrolls of remove curse
 z - 12 scrolls of fear
 H - a scroll of summoning
 S - 19 scrolls of identify
 U - 4 scrolls of fog
 V - 2 scrolls of blinking
 Z - a scroll of silence
Potions
 g - 4 potions of brilliance
 m - 2 potions of cancellation
 n - 6 potions of flight
 o - 19 potions of curing
 u - 8 potions of heal wounds
 w - 6 potions of resistance
 A - a potion of cure mutation
 D - 9 potions of agility
 I - 13 potions of might
Miscellaneous
 p - a fan of gales
 t - a stone of tremors
 y - a box of beasts
 C - a box of beasts
 N - 4 phantom mirrors
 R - a sack of spiders
 Y - a sack of spiders
Comestibles
 d - 40 bread rations
 f - 19 royal jellies
 h - 37 meat rations
 v - 16 beef jerkies
 E - 11 slices of pizza
 M - 12 fruits


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 - Level 9.3 Throwing
 - Level 11.1 Armour
 * Level 17.7 Dodging
 - Level 10.2 Stealth
 O Level 27 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 10.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 9.7 Charms
 - Level 11.8 Summonings
 - Level 6.2 Necromancy
 - Level 4.7 Translocations
 - Level 17.2 Transmutations
   Level 6.4 Ice Magic
 - Level 12.6 Earth Magic
   Level 1.3 Poison Magic
 - Level 10.2 Invocations
 - Level 11.6 Evocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Beastly Appendage     Trmt           ######       1%          1    None
b - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   3%          3    None
c - Hydra Form            Trmt           ######....   4%          6    ######.
d - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          28%         4    ###....
e - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ###...       10%         2    None
f - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          10%         2    None
g - Blade Hands           Trmt           ######....   1%          5    #####..
h - Haste                 Chrm           #####...     87%         6    ######.
i - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
j - Statue Form           Trmt/Erth      ######...    14%         6    ######.
k - Apportation           Tloc           ###.......   6%          1    None
l - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #####...     1%          1    None
m - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ###.....     10%         2    None
n - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          10%         5    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:9
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:5        Snake (4/4) Lair:6        Slime (6/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (3/3) Orc:4        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2       Tomb (1/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
    Zot (5/5) Depths:5   


And won. Funny how I didn't use that much of statue form. Almost forgot about melding armour thing. Doing Zot without rMut seems doable now, it's not like OOF cast malmutate every single turn while you're in its LOS.

I was originally trying to do extended, but it feels like I always enter the mid-life crisis of dungeoncrawl, so to speak, is that every time I get 3~4 runes I just feel mentally exhausted and can't be bothered to do all the boring extended grinds (finding abyssal runes, tomb stairdancing, pandemonium rune searching, etc).

At least I did get a win on a transmuter. Hybrid class looks fun but always so difficult to master. I'm always unsure as what kind of armor my character should wear, or what skills should I train.