CiP: I still suck, now its HaAE


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Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 11:03

CiP: I still suck, now its HaAE

I suck at Deep Dwarves. I also suck at Earth Elementalists, and at Makhleb worshipers. Its a power combo whose awesomeness has not escaped me, but which I have been unable to effectively tap.

So this guy is:
a) vaguely promising after finding an early staff of earth.
b) not yet dead (character dump)

I found Annihilations, but thinking about LCS is the opposite of useful right now... I guess what I really want to do is go to Orc and buy the book of Power, or failing Iron Shot, Bolt of Magma, but of course, neither of those options may be possible, and its what I am meant to do in the meantime that kept on getting my previous EE killed.

Anyone got any tips about how to continue? I am thinking - more staves, more fighting, more dodging, more earth, then armour skill, having hopefully found a decent leather at least (or maybe a vampiric lajatang ha ha) in Orc in the meantime. How does that all sound?

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1562-g9b2c768 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Champion of Chaos (DDEE)             Turns: 25506, Time: 02:13:51

Health: 127/127    AC: 12    Str: 13    XL:     14   Next: 21%
Magic:  35/35      EV: 24    Int: 18    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   1389       SH:  0    Dex: 18    Spells: 6 memorised, 11 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     L - +2 robe {rC+}
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     T - +1 helmet
rElec  .         Spirit   .     M - +1 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +0 pair of boots
MR     ++...                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++........               p - ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}
                                n - ring of magical power

@: non-regenerating, very resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, dopey 1, negative energy resistance 1,
sense surroundings 2, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion


You are on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 18 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary and Ice Cave.

You have collected 1389 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 y - a +1 war axe of flaming
 H - a +0 quarterstaff of draining
 S - a +2 falchion of protection
 X - a quarterstaff of freezing
Missiles
 a - 582 stones
 k - 16 curare-tipped needles
 J - 4 tomahawks (quivered)
Armour
 m - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 L - a +2 robe of cold resistance (worn)
 M - a +1 cloak (worn)
 Q - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 T - a +1 helmet (worn)
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
 w - an uncursed staff of power
 B - an uncursed staff of summoning
Jewellery
 l - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 n - a ring of magical power (left hand)
 p - the ring of the Ego (right hand) {EV+4 Dex+5}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 s - an uncursed ring of fire
 u - an uncursed ring of ice
 I - the ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of invisibility]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 N - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 Y - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
Magical devices
 d - a wand of heal wounds (9)
 i - a wand of draining (7)
 D - a wand of fire
 Z - a wand of random effects
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 f - 4 scrolls of recharging
 C - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 F - 4 scrolls of blinking
 O - 11 scrolls of remove curse
 P - a scroll labeled FYODDA WEARU
 R - a scroll labeled NEKAIT ZAANUENG
 U - a scroll of enchant armour
 W - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 g - 2 potions of brilliance
 r - 3 potions of heal wounds
 t - a ruby potion
 x - 8 potions of curing
 G - 2 potions of magic
 K - 4 potions of might
Books
 h - a book of Battle   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Infusion                     Charms                        1
    b - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    c - Song of Slaying              Charms                        2
    d - Spectral Weapon              Hexes/Charms                  3
    e - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
 j - a book of Annihilations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Poison Arrow                 Conjuration/Poison            6
    b - Chain Lightning              Conjuration/Air               8
    c - Lehudib's Crystal Spear      Conjuration/Earth             8
    d - Glaciate                     Conjuration/Ice               9
    e - Fire Storm                   Conjuration/Fire              9
 q - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Stoneskin                    Transmutation/Earth           2
    b - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    c - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    d - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    e - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
Miscellaneous
 e - a fan of gales
 o - a lantern of shadows
Comestibles
 v - a bread ration
 z - 7 meat rations
 A - 3 chunks of flesh
 E - 9 royal jellies
 V - a slice of pizza


   Skills:
 - Level 8.3 Fighting
 + Level 8.8 Staves
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 8.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 2.1 Conjurations
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 13.0 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 9.1 Evocations


You have 11 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       1%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    #......
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ######....   1%          5    #####..
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ######..     4%          4    ###....
f - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ######....   1%          3    #......

Last edited by thevogonpoet on Friday, 4th September 2015, 11:01, edited 8 times in total.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 12:05

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

I would (personally) value ac over the staves skill right now, you're attacks shouldn't be taking more than one turn as it is, where the difference between 12 ac and 24 could be the difference between life and death the first time you're cornered by a pack of death yacks (or w/e), IMO.
Raising earth will also help raise you're damage from the staff of earth, as well as you're ranged damage.
You're invocations should be good enough to use makhlebs summons reliably, i would send a barlug/executioner/etc against anything you're unsure if you should go near, and continue to use them fairly liberally in the early game.

I've actually got a DDFi going strong right now, different from an earth elementalist but it managed to stay alive thanks to (fairly) early invocations training.
Evocable items are also *very* effective (especially early on), decks of summoning, war, lamps of fire, etc. can get you some awesome backup, throw a hasted executioner in the mix and many difficult fights become much less troublesome.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 12:42

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

That sounds like excellent advice, it would not occur to me to aim for so much AC, but check it out:

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1562-g9b2c768 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Champion of Chaos (DDEE)             Turns: 27167, Time: 02:23:42

Health: 127/127    AC: 24    Str: 13    XL:     14   Next: 41%
Magic:  33/35      EV: 19    Int: 18    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   1591       SH:  0    Dex: 18    Spells: 6 memorised, 11 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     R - +2 scale mail {rC+}
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     T - +2 helmet
rElec  .         Spirit   .     M - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +0 pair of boots
MR     ++...                    (no amulet)
Stlth  +.........               p - ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}
                                n - ring of magical power


You have 11 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       1%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     2%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       6%          3    #......
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ######....   6%          5    #####..
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ######..     21%         4    ###....
f - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ######....   6%          3    #......



Stoneskin is active, and my spell success took a hit, but its already getting better, and some more armour skill should hopefully get at least LDR and Stone Arrow back down below 5% pretty soon. Does feel a lot more robust all of a sudden :)
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 14:20

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Out of curiosity, what normally kills you?

Stone Arrow is really great and will kill a lot of the game for you. Staff of Earth melee is not amazing, but decent. If you're going to use it for most of your melee, grab a shield when/if you find one.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 14:23

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Seems a lot better, and you didn't lose that much EV in the process either.

I would keep my eye out for some spells that could help control larger fights, as earth elementalists have a critical lack of utility spells.
Training some conjurations (when you feel the time is right) would probably be enough to cast some very useful spells even without having to invest much if anything into fire, air, etc.

The ability to sticky flame something and run away while it's being burned to death is a viable, mp-efficient method to regain some health in the early/mid game with makhleb.
Meph. cloud is cheap and can turn would-be threats into sitting ducks for you and you're invo-evo summons.
Also, conjure flame would be decent to look out for as well just to keep fast things like spiny frogs from hunting you down at the wrong time (if there's a corridor).

Once you've got some more general flexibility in general the wait for LCS/iron shot/shatter/etc should be a lot smoother (i think).

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 16:51

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

njvack wrote:Out of curiosity, what normally kills you?

Good question, not sure of the answer... hunting for popcorn to kill for healing instead of just using my wand is probably the number one though :roll: Not sure how to cure myself of that particular failing. I lack the bot-fu to even find my last DDEE, let alone more than one, but I have had lots of problems getting through Lair, and my best DDEE got one rune I think, before popping its clogs.

Sticky flame is probably my fave L4 spell, and yeah, does sound good for a reasonably armoured mak-man. So far I have mainly found Necromancy books. I guess getting zombies, or even just skellies, would be pretty good still, even after the time-out nerf? I could then pick up V Draining, although I definitely recall loosing quite a lot of DDNe trying to VDrain stuff and just being out-damaged...

Will definitely keep an eye out for some suppport conjurations, although I guess they will be relatively hard to pick up. I am not used to armoured casters - should I be hoping for plate-wearing iron shot, or is that too ambitious for a 3-rune game?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Tuesday, 21st July 2015, 19:22

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

One important tip is to never hit autoexplore if your wand of healing is at less than 2 charges. Or even at 2 charges, depending on your preferences. You don't want to have to recharge it while you're in danger.

I'd probably keep it to ring/scale armor, or fire/ice/pearl/swamp/mottled for dragon armors. Iron shot will get you through everything if you're slow and careful with it. If you go plate you'll be meleeing things for a while until you can really overtrain magic.

Staff of earth is a decent melee weapon ONLY if you are willing to train both earth and evocations highly. You have good aptitudes for both, but that's still a huge amount of exp. A lajatang is much cheaper. The main payoff for actually training so heavily for a staff of earth is that you can use a shield with it. This is not really the normal way to go, and if you're having trouble with the combo, just use your lajatang. It's only staves 14 for min delay? Maybe 16. That's a lot cheaper than trying to get both earth and evo up to ~20. Of course, keep wielding the staff of earth when you're hitting things with iron shot/LRD.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1283

Joined: Thursday, 16th April 2015, 22:39

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 05:41

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

This character found Statue Form rather early. Wouldn't it make more sense to train Earth Magic even more, and get some Transmutations, and get Statue Form online, rather than training Armor and over-training magic schools to cast in armor?

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 06:33

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Pollen_Golem wrote:This character found Statue Form rather early. Wouldn't it make more sense to train Earth Magic even more, and get some Transmutations, and get Statue Form online, rather than training Armor and over-training magic schools to cast in armor?


Possibly, for peeps who are good at being slow. But if I suck at DDEE, I monstrously suck at Naga or Chei, so I would rather avoid Statue Form.

Anyway, this guy just took a Vampiric Battleaxe off of a Tengu Warrior, and now I am thinking I should forget my 9 skill levels in staff, and indeed give up on casting Bolt of Magma/Iron shot until much later. I could go Axes and Plate, and maybe hope to get LRD castable as an auxiliary ranged option a bit further down the line. Ignoring the battleaxe feels silly??? I have 3 enchant weapon scrolls which I was about to put into my lajatang...
  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1567-gdd419b1 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Earth Mage (DDEE)                    Turns: 41286, Time: 04:05:47

Health: 141/141    AC: 27    Str: 13    XL:     16   Next: 36%
Magic:  26/37      EV: 20    Int: 20    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   1814       SH:  0    Dex: 18    Spells: 7 memorised, 11 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     R - +2 scale mail {rC+}
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     y - +1 helmet {rF+}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     M - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +0 pair of boots
MR     ++...                    (no amulet)
Stlth  +.........               p - ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}
                                n - ring of magical power

@: stone skin, non-regenerating, repel missiles, very resistant to hostile
enchantments, very unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, dopey 1, negative energy resistance 1,
sense surroundings 2, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion


You are on level 15 of the Dungeon.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 28 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 3164 gold pieces.
You have spent 1350 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +1 lajatang of freezing
 q - a +0 blowgun
 H - an uncursed vampiric battleaxe
Missiles
 k - 12 curare-tipped needles
 s - 769 stones (quivered)
 P - 6 javelins
Armour
 m - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 y - a +1 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 M - a +2 cloak (worn)
 Q - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 R - a +2 scale mail of cold resistance (worn)
 U - the +3 leather armour of Lyajod {rF+}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
 L - an uncursed staff of power
Jewellery
 h - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 l - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 n - a ring of magical power (left hand)
 p - the ring of the Ego (right hand) {EV+4 Dex+5}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 I - the ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of invisibility]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 N - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 Y - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
Magical devices
 d - a wand of heal wounds (9)
 i - a wand of draining (7)
 v - a wand of fire
 A - a wand of teleportation (5)
 D - a wand of draining
 V - a wand of cold (2)
Scrolls
 f - 7 scrolls of recharging
 B - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 C - 7 scrolls of teleportation
 F - 4 scrolls of blinking
 O - 14 scrolls of remove curse
 W - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 Z - a scroll of fog
Potions
 c - a potion of resistance
 g - 4 potions of brilliance
 j - a potion of haste
 r - 3 potions of heal wounds
 t - 4 potions of agility
 w - a bubbling sapphire potion
 x - 10 potions of curing
 G - 2 potions of magic
 K - 5 potions of might
Books
 J - a book of Minor Magic   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Magic Dart                   Conjuration                   1
    b - Blink                        Translocation                 2
    c - Call Imp                     Summoning                     2
    d - Repel Missiles               Charms/Air                    2
    e - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    f - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    g - Mephitic Cloud               Conjuration/Poison/Air        3
 T - a book of Battle   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Infusion                     Charms                        1
    b - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    c - Song of Slaying              Charms                        2
    d - Spectral Weapon              Hexes/Charms                  3
    e - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3

 X - a book of the Earth   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
    b - Bolt of Magma                Conjuration/Fire/Earth        5
    c - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    d - Iron Shot                    Conjuration/Earth             6
    e - Shatter                      Earth                         9




   Skills:
 - Level 8.7 Fighting
 - Level 9.0 Staves
 - Level 12.0 Armour
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 8.1 Spellcasting
 * Level 8.1 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Charms
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 16.4 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 9.1 Evocations


You have 11 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       1%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   1%          5    #####..
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ######..     8%          4    ###....
f - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ######....   1%          3    None
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       21%         2    None


Portals:
Trove: D:14 (give +5 demon trident)

Annotations:
D:13 6 runed doors


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to damage.
You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
You resist negative energy.
You passively map the area around you.
You do not heal naturally.
You are dopey. (Int -2)

User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1283

Joined: Thursday, 16th April 2015, 22:39

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 06:54

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

But it's different. You cast Statue Form when you're not trying to walk away. You can end the transformation when you want, and walk away. You don't have that choice with Naga and with Chei. With a robe and statue form you'll have fewer defenses while walking away but more defenses while not walking away.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 07:00

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Walking away is when I want the most defense though, is it not?
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Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1283

Joined: Thursday, 16th April 2015, 22:39

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 07:13

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

I don't know... most characters want to walk away so they can wait to regen, but Deep Dwarves never need to walk away for that reason, so the main reason to walk away is if you don't want to engage some particular monster at all, ever, which is pre-emptive so you wouldn't need much AC for that.

mps

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 886

Joined: Saturday, 3rd January 2015, 22:34

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 07:24

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

DDs are basically indestructible. If your tactics are remotely reasonable and you have makh, you shouldn't die. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your problem is that you're squeamish about using your heal wounds wand because you want to cast neato spells and you're afraid of losing too much max mp. Relatedly, you neglect your defenses because you want to cast neato spells.

Statue form on a DD is ridiculous overkill. Don't do it.
Dungeon Crawling Advice tl;dr: Protect ya neck.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 07:50

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Well yes, I started an EE instead of a Fi because I wanted to cast some spells. You got me there. Is LRD neato? Its pretty good I think.

  Code:
Health: 141/141    AC: 27    Str: 13    XL:     16   Next: 36%
Magic:  26/37      EV: 20    Int: 20    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   1814       SH:  0    Dex: 18    Spells: 7 memorised, 11 levels left


Again, stoneskin (not very neato?) is active, but this seems like reasonable post-Orc defense if I am doing my damage at range. My last decent dude was an OpWz though, so maybe my defense instincts have been maladjusted.

Options as I see them:
1. Ignore the battleaxe, get Bolt of Magma online (28% right now), then train more fighting, then consider getting iron shot
2. Use the battleaxe, get some axes obviously, then train more fighting, eventually get LRD back.

Decisions decisions.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1131

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 08:26

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

On a deep dwarf I would absolutely switch to the battleaxe, because it's much more comfortable to play with. (It's also stronger.) Bolt of magma is not a good spell, I myself would not learn it. I do not like spells that need spellpower and have three schools.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 08:53

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Well I tried with the battleaxe, and almost died immediately in Spider. Then I tried Shoals with Inv ring, and almost died there instead. So slow battleaxe use is not good. However, its not clear to me that stone arrow with staff of earth will be much better... and I don't have anywhere to gain XP for axe or iron shot before Shoals/Spider. Will try Spider again with staff of earth setup.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 12:04

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Spider cleared. Burnt through a lot of greater servants, a lot of food, and a lot of HW charges though.
I struggled still to make any progress in Shoals though, so currently in Vaults:

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1567-gdd419b1 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Earth Mage (DDEE)                    Turns: 63918, Time: 06:51:45

Health: 173/178    AC: 25    Str: 14    XL:     20   Next: 14%
Magic:  40/44      EV: 19    Int: 23    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   1508       SH:  6    Dex: 18    Spells: 9 memorised, 12 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     R - +2 scale mail {rC+}
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     D - +2 buckler {reflect}
rPois  .         Gourm    .     y - +2 helmet {rF+}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     M - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots
MR     +++..                    P - amulet of rage
Stlth  +.........               n - ring of magical power
                                p - ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}

@: non-regenerating, repel missiles, extremely resistant to hostile
enchantments, very unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, negative energy resistance 1, sense
surroundings 3, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage
}: 1/15 runes: gossamer


You are on level 2 of the Vaults.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 37 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

   Skills:
 + Level 10.9 Fighting
   Level 8.0 Axes
 - Level 9.0 Staves
 - Level 12.0 Armour
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 11.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 14.0 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Charms
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 1.0 Air Magic
 - Level 20.0 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 9.1 Evocations


You have 12 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #######.     1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   1%          5    ####...
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      #######.     2%          4    None
f - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   4%          6    #####..
g - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ###.....     12%         3    None
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ##....       21%         2    None
w - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      #######...   1%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:11
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:4        Vaults (2/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       
 Crypt: Vaults:2-3 



Just found an interesting ring... +11 Int is surely not to be sneezed at, but is it worth -2AC, -rC, and an inability to swap it out?
  Code:
a - the cursed ring "Verup" {*Drain rElec rC- AC-2 Int+11}

I bet 11 more int would help my spell hunger, and indeed power, quite considerably. Wear or not?
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1283

Joined: Thursday, 16th April 2015, 22:39

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 16:14

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

You can just carry an axe around in your inventory and train axes while wielding the staff of earth, until you hit an axes skill of 12 or 16 or whatever you feel is necessary for it to be viable. Fighting is less important on DD because they don't care as much what their max HP is.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 23:32

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

You can swap the ring out - just equip it sometime with no monsters in sight, then read remove curse. The curse isn't perm. -2ac isn't a big deal, and rC- is fine as long as you have rC+ somewhere else to cancel it out (currently, your scale mail does this). +11 int is huge; *drain can be a bit bad but it shouldn't build up too much. Overall it's a good ring, but not amazing. And you have other rings (like EV+4 dex+5) which already qualify as very good, so you don't have to use it if you don't want to. You likely don't really need much more spellpower since you have an earth enhancer.

Bottom line: The ring should be considered "good, not great" but it probably loses compared to other items you already have, which are also good.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Thursday, 23rd July 2015, 12:31

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

tasonir wrote:... but it probably loses compared to other items you already have, which are also good.

Yeah, in the end, I decided not to use it, the opportunity cost of giving up my EV+4 dex+5 ring was too high.

So, still not dead, Shoals rune in the bag, Crypt cleared (those lost souls are annoying little buggers, had one resurrect an ancient lich summoner for me, cost me a !magic), Vaults 1-4 cleared, Mennas dead (5 greater demons). Guess I have to head to Depths now, whilst trying to get my axe online. I am basically just casting Stoneskin, LRD and Iron Shot a lot, but its working - I do seem to have spent an awful lot of time waiting for my mana to regen though.

I have just two enchant armour scrolls left, so I am not sure what to do armour-wise in the future... Was kinda hoping to make a decent fire dragon armour, but just a +1 one seems a bit sad. The best rF+ armour options I have identified are a +3 artifact leather and a +2 ring mail (both meh considering my armour skill now). I have a few unidentified ego chain mails scattered around, but I was hoping to stick to less than -15 encumbrance... bah.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1567-gdd419b1 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Earth Mage (DDEE)                    Turns: 84597, Time: 09:03:32

HP:   203/203 (204) AC: 34    Str: 14    XL:     22   Next: 86%
MP:   47/50         EV: 20    Int: 24    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold: 2196          SH:  7    Dex: 18    Spells: 11 memorised, 17 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     R - +2 scale mail {rC+}
rNeg   + + .     SustAt   .     D - +2 buckler {reflect}
rPois  .         Gourm    +     y - +2 helmet {rF+}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     M - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots
MR     +++..                    N - amulet of the gourmand
Stlth  +.........               k - ring "Beawina" {rC+ rN+ MP+9}
                                p - ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}

@: stone skin, non-regenerating, repel missiles, extremely resistant to hostile
enchantments, very unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, negative energy resistance 1, sense
surroundings 3, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You are on level 3 of the Vaults.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 43 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 5208 gold pieces.
You have spent 3012 gold pieces at shops.

-snip-

   Skills:
 + Level 13.5 Fighting
 * Level 8.1 Axes
 - Level 9.0 Staves
 - Level 18.0 Armour
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 2.7 Shields
 - Level 15.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 14.0 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Charms
 - Level 3.0 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 1.0 Air Magic
 - Level 20.0 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 9.1 Evocations


You have 17 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #######.     1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   1%          5    ##.....
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      #######.     1%          4    None
f - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   1%          6    ####...
g - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ###.....     4%          3    None
h - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          2%          1    None
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ##....       8%          2    None
s - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     6%          4    None
w - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      #######...   1%          3    None

User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Thursday, 23rd July 2015, 14:37

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

My guess is: you're fighting too much stuff. You don't need to go to Crypt. You may not have needed to fight Mennas (though if you did, calling in a bunch of demons was a good call). Lure monsters shamelessly into 1v1 fights. Watch your noise (Mephitic Cloud, in particular, ie real noisy). Use skeletons. A lot. And Stoneskin.

When a monster is walking towards you, hurt it as it's coming. If you're hitting a melee-only monster when it's at full HP, you're doing it wrong, unless it is absolute popcorn. Don't forget Stone Arrow -- it's quieter and cheaper and softens monsters up pretty well.

A lot of the tactics in Crawl boil down to "every time possible, pick fights on your terms and meet them with overwhelming force." Something that's helped me is to treat 50% HP as though you're dead, and do anything in your power to not get to that level. If you're getting down to the 50% HP mark frequently, you're not overwhelming things hard enough.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Thursday, 23rd July 2015, 19:56

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

njvack wrote:My guess is: you're fighting too much stuff ... hurt it as it's coming.


That was definitely the mistake I made when I first tried the axe, but since then (two runes, V1-4 and Crypt ago), I have only been hitting things occasionally (with the staff).

  Code:
Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    16 |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    17
       Falchion          |       |       |    12 |       |       |       |       |       ||    12
       Staff             |       |       |    59 |   195 |  1232 |   402 |   930 |   319 ||  3137
       Lajatang          |       |       |       |       |    13 |       |       |       ||    13
       Battleaxe         |       |       |       |       |       |   422 |       |       ||   422
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |       |       |     5 |    27 |     2 |       ||    34
Throw: Stone             |    38 |    23 |    15 |       |    12 |       |       |       ||    88
       Tomahawk          |       |       |     1 |    23 |    11 |       |       |       ||    35
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Throwing net      |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     1 |     1 ||     5
 Cast: Sandblast         |    56 |    45 |    98 |     6 |     7 |       |       |       ||   212
       Stoneskin         |    14 |     8 |    29 |    62 |   138 |    59 |    74 |    22 ||   406
       Stone Arrow       |       |    25 |   149 |   327 |   520 |   383 |   245 |   108 ||  1757
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |    37 |    80 |   146 |   141 |   362 |   133 ||   899
       Petrify           |       |       |       |     4 |    29 |     2 |    22 |       ||    57
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |     4 |     5 |    19 |     4 ||    32
       Passwall          |       |       |       |       |       |    10 |     1 |       ||    11
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |       |       |    34 |    12 |       ||    46
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |       |    20 |   220 |   103 ||   343
       Animate Skeleton  |       |       |       |       |       |       |    13 |    13 ||    26
Invok: Greater Servant o |       |       |       |       |     8 |     9 |    11 |       ||    28
       Lesser Servant of |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     2 |       ||     5


Huh, I am always surprised how often I swing a weapon :) I tend to only use the staff melee at > 75% max HP, honest. I am still tempted to train some axes and try it out more carefully as a coup-de-grace deliverer, but we shall see.

I like doing Crypt, apart from the lost souls :). Especially with LRD. Even against the resurrected ALich, its not like I was at particularly low health, just chose to drink magic and finish him instead of read a blink.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Friday, 24th July 2015, 12:18

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

I think I can update this guy's status from vaguely promising to quite promising now... I just cleared what I think is the famous grunt_profane_halls Zot entrance encompass vault:
Spoiler: show
Image

It felt kinda intense, but in actual fact, I think I only dropped below 50% Max HP once clearing all of Depths, and generally have been feeling pretty safe, up in 85-100* range. Early on the Enchantress upgraded my rC armour, which was very generous of her, although it cost me an Executioner buddy:

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1572-g7a1422d (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Metallomancer (DDEE)                Turns: 105929, Time: 11:38:30

Health: 236/236    AC: 34    Str: 15    XL:     25   Next: 76%
Magic:  51/51      EV: 19    Int: 25    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   5575       SH:  5    Dex: 13    Spells: 13 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     w - +6 faerie dragon armour {rC+ Regen+ Stlth+}
rNeg   + + .     SustAt   .     n - +1 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  .         Gourm    +     y - +2 helmet {rF+}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     R - +1 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots
MR     +++..                    N - amulet of the gourmand
Stlth  +++.......               k - ring "Beawina" {rC+ rN+ MP+9}
                                h - ring of wizardry

@: non-regenerating, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly
stealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, negative energy resistance 1, sense
surroundings 3, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You are on level 4 of the Depths.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 47 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 8587 gold pieces.
You have spent 3012 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 z - a +5 blowgun of evasion
Missiles
 J - 7 throwing nets (quivered)
 X - 27 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 m - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 n - a +1 buckler of protection (worn)
 w - the +6 faerie dragon armour (worn) {rC+ Regen+ Stlth+}
   (You took it off the Enchantress on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 y - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 Q - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 R - a +1 cloak of invisibility (worn)
Magical staves
 a - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 b - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
Rods
 o - a +5 rod of the swarm (13/13)
   (You found it on level 2 of the Depths)
Jewellery
 h - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
 k - the ring "Beawina" (right hand) {rC+ rN+ MP+9}
   (You took it off a necromancer on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 l - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 p - the ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 u - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 I - the ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of invisibility]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 L - the ring "Karoekhu" {rF+ rC- rN+ Str+2 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 N - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Magical devices
 d - a wand of heal wounds (6)
 e - a wand of heal wounds (2)
 A - a wand of teleportation (4)
 V - a wand of digging (17)
 Y - a wand of disintegration (7)
Scrolls
 v - 2 scrolls of fog
 B - 3 scrolls of summoning
 C - 11 scrolls of teleportation
 E - 5 scrolls of identify
 F - 5 scrolls of blinking
 O - 27 scrolls of remove curse
 T - 3 scrolls of fear
 W - 11 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 c - 3 potions of resistance
 g - 5 potions of brilliance
 j - 5 potions of haste
 r - 10 potions of heal wounds
 s - 2 potions of invisibility
 t - 9 potions of agility
 x - 11 potions of curing
 G - 5 potions of magic
 K - 10 potions of might
Books
 S - a book of the Earth   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
    b - Bolt of Magma                Conjuration/Fire/Earth        5
    c - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    d - Iron Shot                    Conjuration/Earth             6
    e - Shatter                      Earth                         9
Miscellaneous
 q - a fan of gales
 H - a lamp of fire
 P - a sack of spiders
 U - a crystal ball of energy
Comestibles
 Z - 10 meat rations


   Skills:
 - Level 16.2 Fighting
   Level 11.2 Axes
 - Level 9.0 Staves
 - Level 18.0 Armour
 - Level 14.1 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 2.7 Shields
 - Level 15.1 Spellcasting
 * Level 14.8 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Charms
 - Level 3.0 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 1.0 Air Magic
 + Level 26.3 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 9.1 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #######.     1%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   0%          5    ##.....
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      #######.     1%          4    None
f - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          6    ####...
g - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ###.....     1%          3    None
h - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
l - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   4%          8    #######
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ##....       1%          2    None
s - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          4    None
w - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      #######...   1%          3    None
I - Shatter               Erth           ########..   6%          9    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:11
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:4        Vaults (4/5) D:14
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
    Zot (0/5) Depths:5   


So now I have a question about shatter and V5: Just how suicidal would it be? I figure popping a potion of brilliance along with my usual haste would allow me to shatter the welcoming party whilst laughing like a maniac, but I am not sure about the damage - when a warden comes into view, will it take like, 2 shatters to kill it, 3, 4? *If* the wiki is right, I should be at full LOS damage with 26 Earth magic, right?



I have literally never cast Shatter (or until an hour ago, LCS), and basically pumped Earth when it looked I could get LCS online, only to then get carried away whilst clearing Depths, in particular the vault above, so now I am tempted to make my Shatter debut. I wouldn't want to actually die just for mucking around on V5 though, and I don't have a means of channeling apart from the CBoE... Huh, I could learn Sublimation of Blood I guess, although I would be relying on V5 XP to get it up to some sort of power. Sub Blood and Makhleb. Hmmm.
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Friday, 24th July 2015, 15:22

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

You can probably shatter V:5*. Wardens go down to Shatter pretty quick. Everything that isn't flying or a slime goes down to Shatter pretty quick. You have !Magic if you Need MP Now, and in a tight spot, you can teleport; everyone will be headed to where you were just shattering things. Demon Party also solves lots of problems, though you can't shatter anymore once you've invited your buddies.

Range and damage depend on spell power, so the staff will help a bunch, and since it's single-school Earth, it'll be pretty intense. !Brilliance
also gives you a bunch of spell power.

LCS is extremely good for when you want a single target dead now. Iron Shot ain't bad, either. Stone Arrow is still OK for softening things up before meleeing them.

CBOE with 9 evo is not great. Use it early or not at all. Be prepared for 0 MP and confusion.

Do you have a better amulet then Gourmand?

* This may actually be horrible advice but I would do it because trying sounds fun. The best advice for winning is probably still to run/blink past the opening party to a corridor and fight the things in the corridor safely and slowly clear the quadrants from the outside.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 07:33

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

njvack wrote:... it'll be pretty intense ...


Ha, thanks njvack, it certainly was - I picked up sub-blood, drank a brilliance potion, and it was glorious. I popped back upstairs a few times, when dragons were all up in my face, but it was a basically a hilarious V5 experience rather than a hairy one, and afterwards, clearing the quadrants was *much* faster than usual :). Sub-blood and Makhleb were great together, and now I have a Staff of Energy, so will carry that instead of the CBoE. I will go Elf then Zot.

Amulets-wise, I know gourmand is lazy and noobish, but I don't have any super-duper alternatives... I could and therefore probably should have bought faith on Depths 2, but apart from Mennas, I haven't really felt the need to spam many demons for a while, and I am hoping to find rMut before heading to Zot - I just have the one pot of cure mutation thus far. I have a couple of fancy looking artifact Spirit amulets for when I want to fix my MP to Zero, a -4 slaying amulet of warding, some regen, some rage, and stasis. Oh, and there is an otherwise okish MP+9 amulet with MR- in a shop too. So Elf and rMut is what I am hoping for :-/.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1582-ge6b0260 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Petrodigitator (DDEE)               Turns: 109098, Time: 12:09:39

Health: 246/246    AC: 35    Str: 15    XL:     26   Next: 75%
Magic:  52/52      EV: 19    Int: 28    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   5920       SH:  5    Dex: 13    Spells: 14 memorised, 5 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of earth
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     w - +6 faerie dragon armour {rC+ Regen+ Stlth+}
rNeg   + + .     SustAt   .     n - +1 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  .         Gourm    +     y - +2 helmet {rF+}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     S - +2 cloak of the Garden {rF+ Int+3}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     X - +2 pair of boots of the Assassin {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}
MR     +++..                    N - amulet of the gourmand
Stlth  +++++.....               k - ring "Beawina" {rC+ rN+ MP+9}
                                h - ring of wizardry

@: non-regenerating, repel missiles, extremely resistant to hostile
enchantments, quite stealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, negative energy resistance 1, sense
surroundings 3, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer


You are on level 4 of the Vaults.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 48 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 8932 gold pieces.
You have spent 3012 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Missiles
 J - 7 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 n - a +1 buckler of protection (worn)
 w - the +6 faerie dragon armour (worn) {rC+ Regen+ Stlth+}
   (You took it off the Enchantress on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 y - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 Q - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 S - the +2 cloak of the Garden (worn) {rF+ Int+3}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
 X - the +2 pair of boots of the Assassin (worn) {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It makes you much more stealthy.
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
 i - an uncursed staff of energy
Rods
 o - a +5 rod of the swarm (13/13)
   (You found it on level 2 of the Depths)
Jewellery
 h - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
 k - the ring "Beawina" (right hand) {rC+ rN+ MP+9}
   (You took it off a necromancer on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 l - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 u - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 I - the ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of invisibility]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 L - the ring "Karoekhu" {rF+ rC- rN+ Str+2 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 N - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Magical devices
 d - a wand of heal wounds (6)
 e - a wand of heal wounds (2)
 A - a wand of teleportation (4)
 M - a wand of disintegration
 V - a wand of digging (17)
 Y - a wand of disintegration (7)
Scrolls
 v - 3 scrolls of fog
 B - 4 scrolls of summoning
 C - 12 scrolls of teleportation
 E - 7 scrolls of identify
 F - 6 scrolls of blinking
 O - 29 scrolls of remove curse
 T - 3 scrolls of fear
 W - 11 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 c - 3 potions of resistance
 g - 4 potions of brilliance
 j - 6 potions of haste
 r - 11 potions of heal wounds
 s - 2 potions of invisibility
 x - 13 potions of curing
 D - 4 potions of flight
 G - 6 potions of magic
 K - 10 potions of might
Books
 m - a book of the Tempests   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Static Discharge             Conjuration/Air               3
    b - Lightning Bolt               Conjuration/Air               5
    c - Fireball                     Conjuration/Fire              5
    d - Tornado                      Air                           9
    e - Shatter                      Earth                         9
 U - the Compendium of Nocuous Conjuration
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Sting                        Conjuration/Poison            1
    b - Conjure Flame                Conjuration/Fire              3
    c - Ignite Poison                Fire/Transmutation/Poison     3
    d - Spider Form                  Transmutation/Poison          3
    e - Sticky Flame                 Conjuration/Fire              4
    f - Poisonous Cloud              Conjuration/Poison/Air        6
Miscellaneous
 a - a sack of spiders
 f - a disc of storms
 q - a fan of gales
 H - a lamp of fire
 P - a sack of spiders
Comestibles
 p - a bread ration
 t - a slice of pizza
 z - 3 fruits
 R - a beef jerky
 Z - 11 meat rations


   Skills:
 - Level 16.2 Fighting
   Level 11.2 Axes
 - Level 9.0 Staves
 - Level 18.0 Armour
 - Level 14.1 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 2.7 Shields
 + Level 16.8 Spellcasting
 - Level 15.2 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Charms
 * Level 9.9 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 1.0 Air Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 9.1 Evocations


You have 5 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ########     0%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   0%          5    None
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ########     1%          4    None
f - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          6    ###....
g - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ####....     1%          3    None
h - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
i - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          4    None
l - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          8    ######.
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ###...       1%          2    None
s - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
w - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ########..   1%          3    None
I - Shatter               Erth           ########..   4%          9    #######


Ha, my recent OpWz accidentally carried out several very ineffective Staff of Energy stabs, maybe if it had found these boots they would have done something.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1283

Joined: Thursday, 16th April 2015, 22:39

Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 08:47

Re: CiP: I suck at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Regen doesn't do anything for deep dwarves, but you can wear spirit shield to have even more defenses if you're willing to channel/CBoE ALL of your MP.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 11:20

I suck less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Pollen_Golem wrote:... you can wear spirit shield to have even more defenses if you're willing to channel/CBoE ALL of your MP.

Yeah, I was not willing to do that ... that would suck totally.

Anyway, thanks everyone who chipped in with advice, I now have a morgue with my first DD, EE and Mak wins.

The mid game is where my previous DDEE have struggled - the step up from D14 to Lair Branch felt pretty extreme, but by concentrating on using my demons and !HW early, I made it through, and once I was clearing Vaults, it felt like pretty plain sailing. Not only was V5 Shatter gorgeous, but actually two-shotting OOF with LCS felt pretty damned good too... in fact, the 'ol Iron Shot/LCS 1-2 was often enough...

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1582-ge6b0260 (console) character file.

1448412 vogonpoet the Petrodigitator (level 27, 284/284 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Dwarf Earth Elementalist on July 21, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Makhleb.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on July 27, 2015!
             
             The game lasted 13:57:08 (124395 turns).

vogonpoet the Petrodigitator (DDEE)               Turns: 124395, Time: 13:57:08

Health: 284/284    AC: 40    Str: 13    XL:     27
Magic:  42/44      EV: 21    Int: 40    God:    Makhleb [******]
Gold:   6889       SH:  7    Dex: 13    Spells: 16 memorised, 4 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +     a - staff of earth
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     w - +6 faerie dragon armour {rC+ Regen+ Stlth+}
rNeg   + + .     SustAt   .     n - +3 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  .         Gourm    .     y - +2 helmet {rF+}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     S - +2 cloak of the Garden {rF+ Int+3}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Q - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   +         Stasis   .     X - +2 pair of boots of the Assassin {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}
MR     ++++.                    u - amulet of resist mutation
Stlth  +++.......               I - ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}
                                A - ring "Verup" {*Drain rElec rC- AC-2 Int+11}

@: stone skin, non-regenerating, wreathed by umbra, incredibly resistant to
hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, negative energy resistance 1, sense
surroundings 3, slow healing 3, weak 1
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Makhleb.
Makhleb was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 56 of its levels.
You also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You collected 10249 gold pieces.
You spent 3360 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 b - a +5 blowgun of evasion
 D - the +5 pair of quick blades "Gyre" and "Gimble" {pierce, Dex-3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Vaults)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
 U - a +3 vampiric battleaxe
Missiles
 m - 27 curare-tipped needles
 J - 9 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 n - a +3 buckler of protection (worn)
 w - the +6 faerie dragon armour (worn) {rC+ Regen+ Stlth+}
   (You took it off the Enchantress on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 y - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 Q - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 S - the +2 cloak of the Garden (worn) {rF+ Int+3}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
 X - the +2 pair of boots of the Assassin (worn) {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It makes you much more stealthy.
Magical staves
 a - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
 e - an uncursed staff of energy
Rods
 o - a +5 rod of the swarm (13/13)
   (You found it on level 2 of the Depths)
Jewellery
 k - the ring "Beawina" {rC+ rN+ MP+9}
   (You took it off a necromancer on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 l - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 t - the ring of the Ego {EV+4 Dex+5}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 u - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 A - the ring "Verup" (left hand) {*Drain rElec rC- AC-2 Int+11}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (-2).
   It affects your intelligence (+11).
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It causes draining when unequipped.
 I - the ring of Shadows (right hand) {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of invisibility]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It lets you turn invisible.
Magical devices
 d - a wand of heal wounds (6)
 i - a wand of heal wounds (3)
 z - a wand of teleportation (7)
 N - a wand of teleportation (4)
 V - a wand of digging (17)
 Y - a wand of disintegration (7)
Scrolls
 h - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon
 v - 4 scrolls of fog
 C - 13 scrolls of teleportation
 E - 3 scrolls of identify
 F - 7 scrolls of blinking
 L - 5 scrolls of recharging
 O - 30 scrolls of remove curse
 T - 5 scrolls of fear
 W - 10 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 c - 3 potions of resistance
 g - 4 potions of brilliance
 j - 7 potions of haste
 p - 13 potions of might
 r - 12 potions of heal wounds
 s - 3 potions of invisibility
 x - 16 potions of curing
 B - 2 potions of cure mutation
 G - 8 potions of magic
 M - 11 potions of agility
Miscellaneous
 f - a disc of storms
 q - a fan of gales
 H - a lamp of fire
 K - a phial of floods
 P - a sack of spiders
Comestibles
 R - 24 bread rations
 Z - 11 meat rations


   Skills:
 * Level 23.9 Fighting
 - Level 11.2 Axes
 - Level 10.0 Staves
 - Level 18.1 Armour
 - Level 17.2 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 2.7 Shields
 - Level 17.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 15.2 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Charms
 - Level 10.0 Necromancy
 - Level 3.0 Translocations
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 - Level 1.0 Air Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 - Level 15.1 Invocations
 - Level 16.0 Evocations


You had 4 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   1%          1    None
b - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ########     0%          2    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
d - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #########.   0%          5    None
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ########     1%          4    None
f - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          6    None
g - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #####...     1%          3    None
h - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
i - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #######.     1%          4    None
j - Sandblast             Erth           ######       0%          1    None
k - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
l - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          8    ####...
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ####..       1%          2    None
s - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #######...   1%          2    None
w - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ########..   0%          3    None
I - Shatter               Erth           #########.   3%          9    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:11
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (3/3) Orc:4        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
    Zot (5/5) Depths:5   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:6 }   D:15 (   Orc:1 :}   Orc:2 *   Orc:4 *[::   Elf:3 *   Shoals:2 :
Vaults:1 *   Vaults:4 =   Depths:2 =

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:3 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:1
Trove: D:14 (give +5 demon trident)

Annotations:
D:13 6 runed doors
Lair:6 Aizul


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to damage.
You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
You resist negative energy.
You passively map a large area around you.
You do not heal naturally.
You are weak. (Str -2)


Message History

You see here a chain mail.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You climb upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You see here a short sword.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You climb upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You see here a club.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You climb upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You open the door.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
Casting: Iron Shot
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You feel a surge of power! Your skin hardens.
You have escaped!

#       #.#...........####.##
#      ##.#...######......#.#
#      #..#'#....###..####.##
#      #.##.##........#  #.#
########.#...#.######.#  #.#
......[.##...###.## #.#  #.#
.########.....#...# #.####.#
##      #.....#...# #....#.#
        #..8..'.@.# ####.#.#
        #.....#...#    #.#.#
##      #.....#...#    #.#.#
.##     ##...###.###   #.#.#
..########...#.###.#   #.#.#
.........##.##.....#   #.#.#
..#########'#......#####.†.#
.........##...............##
########.####.###########.#

           

Vault maps used:
D:1:      minmay_arrival_shattered_statue
D:2:      grunt_temple_overflow_open, nicolae_qazlal_general_emergency,
          first_bread, evilmike_ruin_ashenzari
D:3:      minivault_27
D:4:      minmay_misc_feat_hallway, st_stairs_7
D:5:      lemuel_coloured_pillars_altar, portal_sewer_entry_e, uniq_pikel
D:6:      serial_shops, shop, nicolae_ossuary_entry_monument, uniq_edmund
D:7:      kennysheep_big_flooded_room, slow_altar_1,
          nicolae_overflow_crystal_walls, minmay_temple_entry_mist,
          grunt_ogre_cave, st_stairs_9
D:9:      kiku_gazebo_pond_becter, old_standard_altar, elyvilon_altar_5,
          minitemple, columned_hall_lemuel, minivault_7
D:10:     cheibrodos_orc_bank, minivault_1, minmay_misc_feat_enclosed,
          kennysheep_generic_room_10
D:11:     dpeg_oklobed_lair, basic_altar
D:12:     orc_0_dummy
D:13:     kennysheep_treasure_stockpile
D:14:     erik_vaults_2, nicolae_trove_entry_crossroad, uniq_louise, uniq_urug
D:15:     grunt_enter_depths_snipers, basic_altar, minmay_misc_feat_ornament,
          serial_shops, shop_statue
Lair:1:   ice2_lemuel, bh_autumn_forest_stairs, serial_bayou_shore_a,
          uniq_fannar
Lair:2:   eino_small_chamber_without_monster, uniq_erica
Lair:3:   pond_and_an_island_with_a_cottage, shoals_dummy_entry, st_stairs_13,
          serial_bayou_pond_a, kennysheep_snail_temple,
          infiniplex_staircase_pool_2
Lair:4:   serial_bayou, serial_bayou_ford_a, serial_bayou_shore_b,
          serial_bayou_pond_e, serial_bayou_pond_c, serial_bayou_pond_b,
          uniq_snorg
Lair:5:   gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake, portal_ice_cave_entry_imps,
          nicolae_quartered_pool_super
Lair:6:   minmay_lair_oklob_chamber, spider_nest_entry_funnel_web,
          serial_bayou_shore_b
Lair:7:   nicolae_slime_entry_slimehenge, lookout_lair_type
Lair:8:   guppyfry_lair_end_dragon, hangedman_lair_in_review,
          nicolae_volcano_entry_two_sided, st_stairs_3
Shoals:2: serial_shops, shop_statue
Shoals:4: shoals_end_simple, shoals_ilsuiw_alternative
Spider:1: uniq_rupert, uniq_aizul, uniq_josephine, uniq_roxanne
Spider:2: uniq_frances
Spider:3: uniq_arachne, uniq_norris
Spider:4: grunt_spider_rune_circles, uniq_mara, uniq_jorgrun
Orc:1:    basic_altar, serial_shops, shop, nicolae_orc_damp_corner,
          nicolae_for_you_no_charge
Orc:2:    serial_shops, nicolae_shop_crystal, basic_altar
Orc:3:    basic_altar, nicolae_orc_pool_cavern
Orc:4:    st_orc_open, okawaru_metal_pillars_1_2, uniq_maurice, uniq_saint_roka
Elf:1:    hangedman_elf_represent
Elf:2:    stair_cage_wide
Elf:3:    grunt_elf_hall_diamonds, serial_shops, nicolae_shop_trees,
          spider_trap, hangedman_elf_disciples
Vaults:1: nicolae_vaults_twisting_passages, nicolae_vaults_little_squares_5,
          sword_in_stone, nicolae_vaults_little_squares_1,
          hangedman_vaults_stream, grunt_vaults_funnel, v_misc_9,
          nicolae_vaults_little_squares_2, vaults_dpeg_hooks, vaults_dpeg_ring,
          vaults_room_semicircle, ontoclasm_vaults_loading_screen,
          ontoclasm_vaults_pinch, vaults_room_grunt_arrival_ludios, v_pattern_1,
          serial_shops, nicolae_shop_waterfront
Vaults:2: nicolae_vaults_little_squares_5, ontoclasm_vaults_shuriken,
          vaults_room_pool, v_misc_8, v_rooms_6, v_alt_pattern_2,
          ontoclasm_vaults_bender, vaults_mumra_minichess_inversion, v_misc_33,
          nicolae_vaults_little_squares_2, nicolae_vaults_mini_display_case
Vaults:3: ontoclasm_vaults_chip, v_rooms_5, vaults_room_door_hall,
          hangedman_vaults_trim, v_misc_2, minmay_crypt_entry_simple_corners,
          nicolae_vaults_angled_halls, v_pattern_2, v_misc_17,
          ontoclasm_vaults_fault, special_room_vaults, vaults_room_door_ring
Vaults:4: hangedman_vaults_slither, v_misc_14, vaults_dpeg_cross, v_rooms_3,
          dpeg_vaults_monster_row, grunt_vaults_trifunnel, vaults_room_pools,
          v_misc_13, v_misc_9, vaults_room_pool, v_misc_10,
          vaults_room_fancy_cross, v_misc_17, serial_shops, shop_statue,
          uniq_mennas
Crypt:1:  fountainhead, weyrava_vampire_temple
Crypt:2:  nicolae_crypt_stairs_room, grunt_megastairs_3, uniq_frederick
Crypt:3:  evilmike_haunted_forest
Depths:1: little_maze_vault, enter_ziggurat_d, pf_hell_entry_great_geh,
          item_on_display_a
Depths:2: evilmike_negative_zone, serial_shops, shop_statue, serial_sigils,
          serial_sigils_hangedman_clutch, serial_sigils_hangedman_gnaw,
          serial_sigils_hangedman_snap, serial_sigils_hangedman_snap,
          hell_entry, grunt_ministairs_6, hangedman_abyss_or_decor_slice
Depths:3: minmay_smoke_and_mirrors, hell_entry, hangedman_decor_points,
          abyss_entry, pan_entry, minmay_misc_feat_five, serial_bayou_lake_a,
          uniq_enchantress
Depths:4: hangedman_box_tower, nrook_mini_vaults, abyss_entry, hell_entry,
          minmay_misc_feat_chi, infiniplex_staircase_zigzag_1
Depths:5: grunt_profane_halls, hell_entry, uniq_jory, uniq_sojobo, uniq_margery,
          uniq_boris
Zot:2:    grunt_deathspiral_small
Zot:3:    nicolae_zot_crop_circle, grunt_megastairs_2
Zot:4:    nicolae_moth_party, st_single_dragon_hoard_2
Sewer:    sewer_frog_island_02
Ossuary:  minmay_ossuary_two_tombs
IceCv:    ice_cave_caverns_03
Volcano:  volcano_grotto

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    16 |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    17
       Falchion          |       |       |    12 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    12
       Staff             |       |       |    59 |   195 |  1232 |   402 |   930 |   775 |   392 ||  3985
       Lajatang          |       |       |       |       |    13 |       |       |       |       ||    13
       Battleaxe         |       |       |       |       |       |   422 |       |       |       ||   422
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |       |       |     5 |    27 |     2 |     5 |       ||    39
Throw: Stone             |    38 |    23 |    15 |       |    12 |       |       |       |       ||    88
       Tomahawk          |       |       |     1 |    23 |    11 |       |       |       |       ||    35
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Throwing net      |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     1 |     2 |     1 ||     7
 Cast: Sandblast         |    56 |    45 |    98 |     6 |     7 |       |       |       |       ||   212
       Stoneskin         |    14 |     8 |    29 |    62 |   138 |    59 |    74 |    61 |    38 ||   483
       Stone Arrow       |       |    25 |   149 |   327 |   520 |   383 |   245 |   157 |    46 ||  1852
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |    37 |    80 |   146 |   141 |   362 |   325 |   179 ||  1270
       Petrify           |       |       |       |     4 |    29 |     2 |    22 |     7 |    10 ||    74
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |     4 |     5 |    19 |     8 |    12 ||    48
       Passwall          |       |       |       |       |       |    10 |     1 |    12 |    14 ||    37
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |       |       |    34 |    12 |     1 |       ||    47
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |       |    20 |   220 |   455 |   491 ||  1186
       Animate Skeleton  |       |       |       |       |       |       |    13 |    79 |    83 ||   175
       Lehudib's Crystal |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   150 ||   150
       Sublimation of Bl |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    30 ||    30
       Shatter           |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    34 ||    34
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     8 ||     8
Invok: Greater Servant o |       |       |       |       |     8 |     9 |    11 |     1 |       ||    29
       Lesser Servant of |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     2 |       |       ||     5
 Abil: Evoke Invisibilit |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |     1 |     4 ||     8
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |     6 |    18 |     5 |     1 |     1 ||    31
       Fan of gales      |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |       |       ||     3
       Rod               |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Crystal ball of e |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Staff of energy   |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   345 ||   345
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |     3 |     9 |    12 |    19 |    16 |     9 |    16 |    16 ||   102
       Potion            |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |    11 |     2 |     3 |     2 ||    21
 Stab: Sleeping          |     1 |     1 |     1 |       |     1 |       |     1 |       |    12 ||    17
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |       |     5 |     1 ||     9
       Petrifying        |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     2
       Petrified         |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |     1 |       |       ||     3
       Held in net/web   |       |       |       |       |       |     5 |       |       |       ||     5
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |       |     9 ||    12
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |       |    13 |     5 |       |       ||    18
  Eat: Chunk             |     5 |     9 |    26 |    49 |    94 |    37 |   146 |   147 |   141 ||   654
       Fruit             |       |       |     4 |       |       |     6 |       |     8 |       ||    18
       Royal jelly       |       |       |     3 |       |     3 |     6 |       |     1 |       ||    13
       Bread ration      |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     3
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |     7 |     1 |     1 |     2 |       |     5 ||    16
       Pizza             |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |       |       |     1 ||     4
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |       |       |     7 |     5 |       |     4 ||    16



Hmm, sticking to easy combos and Gods I can't win, I suppose I should try Centaur of Fedhas too... but that is an actual suck vortex for me... at least I have history of being able to get DDEE off the ground. My best CeHu is level 10. Yuck.
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 15:16

Re: I suck less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

thevogonpoet wrote:Hmm, sticking to easy combos and Gods I can't win, I suppose I should try Centaur of Fedhas too... but that is an actual suck vortex for me... at least I have history of being able to get DDEE off the ground. My best CeHu is level 10. Yuck.

What happens to your CeHu^Fedhas? That sounds like the most diesel of diesel combos.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 16:06

Re: YAVP: I suck a bit less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

miss adder five times in a row, die. miss orc priest three times in a row, die. miss ant, die. guess i dont run away in time, but dont even feel very fast. i mean, I should wear plate, make shrooms and shoot stuff right? will roll one up and we can see how it goes.
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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 16:13

Re: I suck less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

thevogonpoet wrote:The mid game is where my previous DDEE have struggled - the step up from D14 to Lair Branch felt pretty extreme

You mean the sub-branches of Lair, right? Because Lair is generally easier than D14.

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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 16:36

Re: YAVP: I suck a bit less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Yeah, sub branch...
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 17:18

Re: YAVP: I suck a bit less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

thevogonpoet wrote:miss adder five times in a row, die. miss orc priest three times in a row, die. miss ant, die. guess i dont run away in time, but dont even feel very fast. i mean, I should wear plate, make shrooms and shoot stuff right? will roll one up and we can see how it goes.

You probably won't jump straight to plate, and you'll hit a lot of things in melee, but generally, yeah. In a lot of cases, you don't even want to try fighting an early orc priest; just walk away. You aren't Spriggan fast but you can walk away from almost all significant melee threats. But in general, "adder / priest / ant" is a pretty good list of serious threats for lots of builds.

By the time you have found fedhas and are making shrooms, the "die to adder / ant" part of the game should be almost done. Let shrooms tank for you; they hit real hard, confuse, and you can shoot through them.

Sunlight can help with accuracy. I never remember to use it either.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 18:47

CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Ok, so just joined Fedhas. Not found any normal arrows on the floor yet :(.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1582-ge6b0260 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Shooter (Centaur Hunter)              Turns: 3656, Time: 00:12:54

Health: 38/38      AC:  4    Str: 15    XL:     4   Next: 79%
Magic:  4/4        EV:  9    Int: 10    God:    Fedhas [......]
Gold:   82         SH:  0    Dex: 10    Spells: 0 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     b - +0 short sword
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     e - +0 leather armour
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     (no helmet)
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (no barding)
MR     .....                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++........               (no ring)
                                s - ring of stealth

@: very quick, not resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: hooves 3, deformed body, speed 2, tough skin 3
a: Renounce Religion


You are on level 3 of the Dungeon.
You worship Fedhas.
Fedhas is noncommittal.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 3 of its levels.

You have collected 82 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +1 shortbow
 b - a +0 short sword (weapon)
 t - a +2 mace of protection
 C - a spear
Missiles
 c - 11 arrows
 g - 11 arrows of dispersal
 r - 72 sling bullets
 x - 6 steel javelins (quivered)
 y - 4 tomahawks
 D - a throwing net
Armour
 e - a +0 leather armour (worn)
 w - a scale mail
 z - a ring mail
Jewellery
 j - an uncursed ring of fire
 s - a ring of stealth (left hand)
Scrolls
 h - 5 scrolls labeled QEXZICRINU
 k - a scroll labeled PEAQIG TUTO
 p - a scroll labeled SIPUNL YTYIZ
 q - a scroll labeled ENGICU CUOGHEM
 A - a scroll labeled VYSUUD MOINOE
 B - a scroll labeled NAUTEI DYSAQ
Potions
 f - 2 grey potions
 l - a ruby potion
 m - a sedimented coppery potion
 n - a glowing ruby potion
 o - a viscous silvery potion
 v - a bubbling blue potion
 E - a silvery potion
Comestibles
 d - 2 bread rations
 i - a slice of pizza
 u - 2 chunks of flesh


   Skills:
 - Level 3.1 Fighting
 + Level 7.5 Bows
 - Level 1.3 Dodging
 - Level 0.5 Stealth


You have 3 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (3/15)           

Altars:
Fedhas
Okawaru
The Shining One


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have hooves in place of feet.
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
You cover ground very quickly.
You have extremely tough skin (AC +3).



I guess polearms are a good choice? I have no feeling for how to train a Hu -Dex vs Int, bows to x, melee weapon to y, armour and fighting?

Do dispersal arrows cause completely random blinks? Or blinks away from the shooter?
Last edited by thevogonpoet on Monday, 27th July 2015, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 18:50

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Those 6 steel javelins are a really good find! :)
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 18:54

Re: YAVP: I suck a bit less at DD, and EE, and Mak.

Polearms are ridiculously good on Ce (walk away from thing, poke from distance, repeat), and doubly so for Ce^Fedhas (poke over mushroom / plant).

I'd probably mostly take dex unless I were going kill a bunch of things with conjurations, which you probably will not do. You'll want enough strength to wear plate or maybe a dragon armour. You'll probably find "good enough" plate first (certainly by Orc).

I would probably not train Bows up at all until I had a melee weapon trained up halfway decently. Might leave bows alone until Lair.

Nice early Fedhas altar!
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Post Monday, 27th July 2015, 19:44

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Utterly destroyed by Maurice.

I tried shooting my blowgun at him blind, thinking I would just run away if it got too hairy. Then he stole my wand of lightning, and the rest is history. So that's a pretty stupid death right there. Sunlight would have helped my mushroom friends targeting right? Try again.

Once thing I always notice with Fedhas - piety always takes forever - early altar, just 3 evolutions, and always hovering between 1 and 2 stars.

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Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 06:20

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

No 2. Slain by beeeees. I hate bees.

I have problems with positioning and my shroom friend - e.g. I meet some pack monsters in the open, want to run away, but the shroom is stuck in the middle of the room, and I have to try and tough it out. Should I be telling it to wait in corridors all the time? That sounds incredibly tedious.

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Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 08:10

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Not sure how you are playing. You don't need higher piety with Fedhas early in the game, as long as you don't dip below 1*. Mushrooms dying will lose you a lot of piety (on average), but I never found piety gain to be slow. But in the worst case, let your mushrooms die, instead of dying yourself. I usually get out when I see bees, mushrooms be damned.

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Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 09:34

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

No 3:

  Code:
Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | vogonpoet the Centaur Hunter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 17/17 MP: 1/1
   125 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 11/25 MP: 2/2
  1130 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 5/31 MP: 3/3
  1133 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation]
  1133 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You have sharp fingernails. [potion of mutation]
  1133 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You are agile. (Dex +2) [potion of mutation]
  1149 | D:2      | HP: 1/31 [poisoned by an adder]
  1158 | D:2      | HP: 1/31 [poisoned by an adder]
  1166 | D:2      | Succumbed to an adder's poison


Making a bit of a CeHu break, will return to this thread very soon though....
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Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 14:06

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

thevogonpoet wrote:Utterly destroyed by Maurice.

I tried shooting my blowgun at him blind, thinking I would just run away if it got too hairy. Then he stole my wand of lightning, and the rest is history. So that's a pretty stupid death right there. Sunlight would have helped my mushroom friends targeting right? Try again.

Once thing I always notice with Fedhas - piety always takes forever - early altar, just 3 evolutions, and always hovering between 1 and 2 stars.

If Maurice were standing in sunlight, he would have been straight-up visible. But it's a problem for him because he blinks.

Maurice with a wand of lightning is a "teleport immediately and skip the level" emergency unless you can resist or have a boatload of HP or know the wand is almost out of charges. Maurice is a dick.

I'd probably have read-id'd my scrolls (at least until I'd found ?tele) before this point; you also have a ?id you could have spent by now. Not saying that would have necessarily given you something that would have helped, but yeah.

Bees and adders... yup :(
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Sar

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Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 14:11

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

I've tried playing a Ce recently and died like 3 times in early game. Really embarrassing stuff, but I did feel like early game ranged was nerfed, though supposedly it was just brought on the level of melee. Missed one adder like 5 times in a row with 7-8 Bows.
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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 14:34

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Hm, maybe something like CeGl would be a stronger start. You'll find a bow off the first other centaur you meet, anyhow.
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Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 16:08

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Centaurs with polearms are legit.
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Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 05:50

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

I liked CeFi very much - starting with shield helps to offset Ce having dificulty getting lot of AC/EV, and large size means you don't have to train shields so high.
One handed polearms are weak except dTrident though, so you might have to use a glaive between trident and dTrident. Weapon gifting gods help here of course.
Plain trident of elec or distortion is good still though. Distortion brand / warp weapon spell is pretty good with polearms because of reach.
Throwing works nicely with a shield, so you can forget bows too.

http://underhound.eu:81/crawl/morgue/hannobal/morgue-hannobal-20150216-191429.txt
Skilling definetely isn't optimal, but at least it was good enough to win.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 08:28

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Ok, will try a CeGl - I like Gl - nets FTW!. Starting a Hu just to spend D1-2 hoping for a polearm to train seem silly when I can start off with an awesome trident, and look for a bow later...

Ha, first one killed by a Centaur, fair enough Crawl, well played.

It seems I really need to adjust to how crap Ce defenses are...

Second CeGl killed by own stupidity when faced with Centaur and Jelly. *sigh*.

Edit:
Huh. Kill enough Ce and eventually one will find a barding on D2. I think this is the first time I ever wore a barding (you think I suck at Ce, you should see me as a Naga). This dude only had a Qazal altar (no thanks) before the D7 Temple, but has a halberd, a shortbow, a blowgun, some MR, and a ring of invisibility. Not bad at all, plus, not dead yet.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1591-g7a45446 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Spear-Bearer (Centaur Gladiator)      Turns: 9867, Time: 00:37:46

Health: 67/67      AC: 20    Str: 18    XL:     9   Next: 57%
Magic:  10/10      EV:  6    Int:  7    God:   
Gold:   249        SH:  0    Dex: 13    Spells: 0 memorised, 8 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     K - +0 halberd
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     v - +2 scale mail {MR+}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   +     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     B - +2 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     b - -2 cloak (curse)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     p - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     r - +2 centaur barding
MR     +....                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ..........               F - ring of invisibility
                                u - ring of sustain attributes

@: very quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: hooves 3, yellow scales 1, deformed body, speed 2, tough skin 3
a: Evoke Invisibility


You are in the Ecumenical Temple.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 8 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer.

You have collected 369 gold pieces.
You have spent 120 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +1 trident
 e - a +0 blowgun
 w - a +0 shortbow
 H - the +10 scimitar "Worm" {freeze, +Blink rN+ MR++ Int+4}
   (You took it off an orc warrior on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you blink.
 K - a +0 halberd (weapon)
Missiles
 d - 14 tomahawks (quivered)
 g - 54 arrows
 i - 20 arrows of frost
 s - 13 arrows of flame
 A - 15 poisoned needles
Armour
 b - a cursed -2 cloak (worn)
 c - a +0 helmet
 p - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 r - a +2 centaur barding (worn)
 v - a +2 scale mail of magic resistance (worn)
 B - a +2 hat (worn)
Jewellery
 u - a ring of sustain attributes (left hand)
 F - a ring of invisibility (right hand)
Magical devices
 n - a wand of flame {zapped: 8}
Scrolls
 q - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 D - a scroll of remove curse
 J - a scroll of enchant weapon
Potions
 f - 2 red potions
 j - a potion of magic
 k - a potion of invisibility
 m - an inky potion
 t - a black potion
 x - a bubbling purple potion
 z - 3 potions of heal wounds
 C - 7 potions of curing
Comestibles
 h - 10 fruits
 l - 4 meat rations
 y - 3 bread rations
 G - 2 slices of pizza
 I - a beef jerky
 L - a chunk of flesh


   Skills:
 - Level 2.0 Fighting
 - Level 10.0 Polearms
 - Level 4.0 Bows
 - Level 2.6 Throwing
 - Level 5.0 Armour
 - Level 2.4 Dodging
 + Level 2.5 Evocations


Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One



     ♣♣♣.........♣...........♣♣♣♣
  ♣♣♣♣....♣P.........♣..P...P..P.
 ♣♣PP............................
♣♣P......♣♣♣......♣...P.....♣....
P.P....#################.........
♣..♣...#.............#.8........♣
♣.♣♣♣..#._._._._._._.#......PP...
.P♣♣...#.............#.8.........
..♣..♣♣#._._._._@_._.'...........
♣...♣♣  .............#.8....P♣.P.
♣....♣♣#._._._._._._.#........PP♣
♣♣..♣..#.............#.8........♣
♣.PP...#################..P.P....
♣PPPP..........................P.
♣♣♣♣♣♣.......P.♣...P...♣♣♣♣♣♣P...
     ♣♣♣♣♣♣.........♣♣♣♣      ♣♣.
          ♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣          ♣♣



I even have 10 fruit and an awesome scimitar I am not sure whether to ignore now that I have 10 polearms.
So, to continue with my Fedhas experiment? I have 4 Okawaru victories already, and besides, Fedhas is way better for a simple 3-runer, right? Right?

Edit: Maurice again, stealing a wand of lightning again. This time I had my tele scrolls identified though, time to leave the level, and come back with a bit of piety, and hopefully some shrooms.

Spider Stomper

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Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 12:35

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeGl of Fedhas

Still not dead.

Found Book of Battle, so I thought, ah ha, Spectral Weapon is awesome, lets do that - its up to 76% success now, so yeaaargh. But now that I think about it, SW doesn't work for bows does it? So my Centaur is going to end up just spearing stuff to death. How would I build the char if I actually want to hit stuff with bows? (Apart from train some bows skill obviously, which I am still intending to do, once I find an ego bow of some description.)

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1591-g7a45446 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Spear-Bearer (Centaur Gladiator)     Turns: 21972, Time: 01:50:03

Health: 94/107     AC: 25    Str: 18    XL:     13   Next: 26%
Magic:  17/17      EV:  7    Int:  7    God:    Fedhas [****..]
Gold:   1405       SH:  0    Dex: 18    Spells: 2 memorised, 7 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     p - +4 trident (venom)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     v - +2 scale mail {MR+}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     a - +0 helmet {SInv}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     Q - +0 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     c - +0 pair of gloves (curse)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     r - +4 centaur barding
MR     +....                    I - amulet of regeneration
Stlth  ..........               W - ring of wizardry
                                s - +3 ring of dexterity

@: very quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: hooves 3, yellow scales 1, deformed body, speed 2, tough skin 3
a: Evolution, Sunlight, Growth, Reproduction, Renounce Religion


You are on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Fedhas.
Fedhas is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 17 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer, Bailey and Ice Cave.

You have collected 1525 gold pieces.
You have spent 120 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 e - a +0 blowgun
 i - a +0 glaive
 p - a +4 trident of venom (weapon)
 w - a +0 shortbow
 H - the +10 scimitar "Worm" {freeze, +Blink rN+ MR++ Int+4}
   (You took it off an orc warrior on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you blink.
 K - a +0 halberd of chopping
Missiles
 g - 201 arrows
 A - 70 poisoned needles
 U - 2 poisoned tomahawks (quivered)
Armour
 a - a +0 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 c - a cursed +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 r - a +4 centaur barding (worn)
 v - a +2 scale mail of magic resistance (worn)
 Q - a +0 cloak (worn)
Jewellery
 s - a +3 ring of dexterity (left hand)
 y - an uncursed ring of stealth
 B - an uncursed ring of sustain attributes
 F - an uncursed ring of invisibility
 I - an amulet of regeneration (around neck)
 S - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 W - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
Magical devices
 b - a wand of confusion
 o - a wand of hasting (5)
 J - a wand of cold (8)
 P - a wand of flame
 R - a wand of cold
Scrolls
 d - 5 scrolls of identify
 n - 3 scrolls of fog
 q - 6 scrolls of teleportation
 u - a scroll of magic mapping
 x - a scroll of enchant weapon
 D - a scroll of blinking
 L - a scroll of recharging
 N - a scroll of vulnerability
 Y - 4 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 f - 6 potions of agility
 j - a potion of magic
 k - 4 potions of invisibility
 m - 7 potions of might
 t - 2 potions of flight
 z - 3 potions of heal wounds
 C - 11 potions of curing
 E - 2 potions of resistance
 V - a potion of haste
 Z - 2 potions of cancellation
Books
 T - a book of Battle   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Infusion                     Charms                        1
    b - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    c - Song of Slaying              Charms                        2
    d - Spectral Weapon              Hexes/Charms                  3
    e - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
Miscellaneous
 O - a fan of gales
Comestibles
 h - 12 fruits
 l - 8 meat rations
 G - 5 slices of pizza
 M - 2 beef jerkies
 X - 3 bread rations


   Skills:
 - Level 8.2 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Polearms
 - Level 4.6 Bows
 - Level 2.6 Throwing
 - Level 6.8 Armour
 - Level 2.4 Dodging
 + Level 3.6 Hexes
 + Level 7.2 Charms
 - Level 6.3 Evocations


You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #.......     24%         3    ####...
b - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #.........   21%         2    ###...

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 176

Joined: Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 04:59

Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 13:04

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Portal projectile is great, though not necessary with Fedhas.
But if you find it, it's worth picking up - for example in vaults you often want to kill the warden/sentinel from middle of the pack, or deep troll shamans in depths (before they haste the whole pack).
Nice with blowgun & special needles too.
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 14:09

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeGl of Fedhas

thevogonpoet wrote:Still not dead.

Found Book of Battle, so I thought, ah ha, Spectral Weapon is awesome, lets do that - its up to 76% success now, so yeaaargh. But now that I think about it, SW doesn't work for bows does it? So my Centaur is going to end up just spearing stuff to death. How would I build the char if I actually want to hit stuff with bows? (Apart from train some bows skill obviously, which I am still intending to do, once I find an ego bow of some description.)

SW doesn't work on bows; however, even with bows you're going to be spearing stuff, and assuming spectral polearms keep their reaching ability, it should be fantastic. Soften 'em up with arrows, and when they get close, swap to the polearm and summon a spectral buddy.

I'd get SW and shroud up and running, and then train bows and fighting (more HP is a valid form of defense, and fighting helps with damage too) and some armour. A few levels of dodging wouldn't hurt.

Regeneration is also worth learning.

Oh! A wand of hasting in Lair! Very nice. Go win :)
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 18:20

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeGl of Fedhas

njvack wrote:... Oh! A wand of hasting in Lair! Very nice. Go win :)

Ha ha, if only it was that straightforward... So yeah, shroud, regen, spec, and portal projection sound like pretty solid spells to get online... if I find PP then I guess I can add blink to the list too, we shall see.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1283

Joined: Thursday, 16th April 2015, 22:39

Post Wednesday, 29th July 2015, 18:30

Re: CiP: I suck at diesel combos: CeHu of Fedhas

Aren't tridents AND bows rather redundant overkill on a Fedhasite and/or Centaur? They can be both used for kiting or hiding behind allies. You might as well find you have no need for bows by the time you train your defenses and get your spells online.
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