Buy or save? Which dragon armour?


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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 10:48

Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I have a TrMo Nemelex who has done Orc and is early in Lair. In shops I can buy an ice dragon armour (which I presume is +0 because it isn't glowing, but I may have floors and shops confused) or I can save up for a randart pearl dragon armour. The ice dragon armour is in an antique shop. I have an rF++ ring and a ring of Ice, so resistances are more or less covered either way.

Should I buy the ice dragon armour now, or wait until I can afford the pearl dragon armour? There is only one scroll of enchant armour floating in a shop.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1374-gc51869c (console) character file.

jejorda2 the Grappler (Troll Monk)                 Turns: 18301, Time: 01:25:52

Health: 140/140    AC: 15    Str: 22    XL:     14   Next: 12%
Magic:  20/20      EV: 14    Int:  6    God:    Nemelex Xobeh [*****.]
Gold:   1765       SH:  0    Dex: 19    Spells: 0 memorised, 13 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     O - +2 robe {rC+ rF+}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  +         Gourm    +     Q - +1 hat {MR+}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     P - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (boots unavailable)
MR     ++...                    W - amulet of regeneration
Stlth  +++.......               j - +4 ring of protection
                                c - ring of Itorph {rPois rF++ EV-2 Dex+3 Stlth+} (curse)

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2,
shaggy fur 1, tough skin 2
a: Triple Draw, Deal Four, Stack Five, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh is extremely pleased with you.
You are very full.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 19 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 2155 gold pieces.
You have spent 390 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 b - a +4 blowgun
Missiles
 e - 21 poisoned needles
 l - 8 large rocks (quivered)
 m - 13 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 O - a +2 robe of resistance (worn)
 P - a +2 cloak (worn)
 Q - a +1 hat of magic resistance (worn)
Rods
 S - a +5 rod of shadows (11/11)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)
Jewellery
 c - the cursed ring of Itorph (left claw) {rPois rF++ EV-2 Dex+3 Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (-2).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
   It makes you more stealthy.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 d - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 g - an uncursed amulet of rage
 j - a +4 ring of protection (right claw)
 o - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 t - a ring of ice
 x - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 W - an amulet of regeneration (around neck)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of cold
 s - a wand of fire
 G - a wand of paralysis (7)
 L - a wand of polymorph {recharged}
 M - a wand of enslavement
 U - a wand of heal wounds (2)
 V - a wand of confusion
Scrolls
 i - 15 scrolls of remove curse
 k - a scroll of magic mapping
 p - 3 scrolls of fog
 u - a scroll of teleportation
 y - a scroll of silence
 B - a scroll of identify
Potions
 n - 6 potions of curing
 q - a potion of might
 r - 3 potions of lignification
 C - a potion of flight
 I - a potion of resistance
 N - a potion of berserk rage
Miscellaneous
 a - an ornate deck of escape
 f - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 1}
 w - a lantern of shadows
 A - an ornate deck of destruction
 K - a plain deck of escape
 T - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 12}
 Z - an ornate deck of war
Comestibles
 z - 7 beef jerkies
 H - 17 bread rations


   Skills:
 - Level 9.2 Fighting
 * Level 8.0 Dodging
 - Level 1.1 Stealth
 + Level 13.9 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 10.3 Evocations


You have 13 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (2/8) D:10
    Orc (4/4) D:10            Elf (0/3) Orc:3 


  Code:
5 things, total 6208 gold  [a-z] travel|examine|delete  [?/!] change action
 a - [Orc:4]  120 gold  a scroll of enchant armour
 b - [Orc:1]  417 gold  the cursed +2 blowgun of Zagotuerus {speed, rC+ Str+3}
 c -   [D:8] 1240 gold  a fan of gales
 d - [Orc:4] 1740 gold  an ice dragon armour
 e -  [D:10] 2691 gold  a jewelled pearl dragon armour


So far my dumbest move this game is berzerking agains a minotaur, then leaving the lab while slow, exhausted, and at 20% hp to find a guardian serpent and some other stuff.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 808

Joined: Sunday, 23rd June 2013, 15:20

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 11:05

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I dont like to go into Lair without at least a troll armour, so i'd spend that money on the IDA before you go without. That said, if you take care its possible to loot most of the money out of Orc with an TrMo. (run away from orc knights and sorcerers), which will probably be not enough to get you that PDA.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 11:19

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I saw the shop with the PDA before finding orc or lair, so I decided to do orc for gold. I already have all the gold from orc. It is just enough for the IDA, but not enough for the PDA. I even did a few deeper dungeon levels looking for gold before entering lair. With the +4 protection ring, my AC is not abysmal for a Troll starting lair.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 12:31

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I would wait for PDA. +0 IDA will not change your AC+EV total much, it gives only +5 AC at Armour 0 comparing to +2 robe.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 13:39

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Well, I bought the Ice Dragon armour, figuring it helped me now and who knows if I'd live long enough to get the other. I completed Lair, D15, and got to Snake 3 where a Mystic cast me into the Abyss. In the Abyss, I found enough gold to make up the 951 gold difference in the prices. I think having the AC helped me survive a few times.

Then a lorocyproca got me in they Abyss.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 13:58

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

"Mystic cast" - is it distortion hit? More EV from the robe could have saved you so I am not clear picking IDA was correct decision, sorry.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 415

Joined: Monday, 8th December 2014, 10:31

Location: Sweedledome

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 14:52

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Cast in this case is the verb. (to throw) Cast into the Abyss by a Mystic (its how its phrased in the notes). So yeah, must have been a distort blade as Mystics dont know Banish. And in that case, yes, a robe would have helped avoid that banishment vs a DA by virtue of EV.

I probably would have held out for the PDA, cold resistance is usually far less critical than fire (which you had covered). Dragon armours in shops (even +0) are generally so pricey I wouldnt consider that a good deal. A glowing PDA on the other-hand might even carry an ego, and is a fabulous piece of armour even if it doesnt.

I'd probably have sat in robe, pumped dodge/dex and held out for the pearl.

I didnt really mind 'robe-troll', but I banked heavily on throwing and took Okawaru, large rocks solve so many problems.

Edit: as I write this I suddenly realise that the Swedish word for 'throw' is kasta. So I guess thats somewhat indicative of the root of 'cast' as a verb. (english is jammed full of viking'isms and other germanic/northern european throwbacks.)

edit2: 1175-1225; Middle English casten < Old Norse kasta to throw... Yup. Intriguingly its also the same origin for when we say 'cast a spell'. You are throwing spells at your enemy.

/irrelevant semantics - I love languages :)
Online Wins: MiFi, GrFi, TrMo, HOGl, SpEn, {DEWz, DDNe}, {OgBe, CeHu}, FoFi, VSFi, MfGl, {HaGl, VpEn, HESk}, KoAs, DsFi, TeMo

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:11

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 134555.txt

There's the final morgue.

EV was 15 with the robe, 14 with ice dragon armour. I didn't notice the distortion weapon or I would have taken the salamander out at range. I thought it was an MR failure until you guys brought up the distortion weapon.

I guess I need to watch for those better.

This is the first game where I've ever used Deal Four or Stack Five. I have always treated decks like Greater Destruction or ignored them.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:16

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Decks are great and fun, you should use them!

Also that ring made IDA great IMO.
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 778

Joined: Thursday, 13th March 2014, 20:15

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:23

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

It was +0 pearl dragon armour of the Kettle-Drum {+Inv rC+++ rN+ Dex-4 SInv}
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Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:25

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Yeah, especially with that ring, I would have gone ice dragon armor. Rather than saving up gold and blowing all of it on a randart that has a pretty good chance of sucking badly. And I say this as a player who often gambles on antique randarts even when it probably isn't a good idea.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 300

Joined: Thursday, 1st May 2014, 13:13

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:28

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

The randart properties could have been junk on the PDA. I think you made the right call.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 415

Joined: Monday, 8th December 2014, 10:31

Location: Sweedledome

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:29

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

jejorda2 wrote:[distort...]I guess I need to watch for those better.


When it comes to distortion weapons I'm right there with you. Banished plenty because I didn't notice them.

I'd recommend tweaking your settings to highlight it better. A force more would make you hit enter once you've spotted them, or you could do some other alert. I think sandman has his screen flash like low HP when one enters LOS...

Take a look at this thread for some ideas.

This is a change I made recently (along with a number of others) and its really made life easier.

all before wrote:The randart properties could have been junk on the PDA. I think you made the right call.


Hmm. PDA is a significantly better base armour though, whatever the properties. Even a +1 pda would have sealed it for me. Yes its got a less useful resist, but it doesnt come with a vulnerability and is plate armour with IDA encumberence. But im somewhat biased by not thinking Trolls should jump into the first dragon armour they find (which is a pretty common feeling), like I said above, I really dont mind robe. PDA is always doing you favours. IDA I might look for if im going to ice cave/coccy/Lom. Considering fire is more common than ice by quite a margin, I'd argue that rN+ is better than rC++ rF- for most of the game
Last edited by celem on Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:38, edited 2 times in total.
Online Wins: MiFi, GrFi, TrMo, HOGl, SpEn, {DEWz, DDNe}, {OgBe, CeHu}, FoFi, VSFi, MfGl, {HaGl, VpEn, HESk}, KoAs, DsFi, TeMo
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 778

Joined: Thursday, 13th March 2014, 20:15

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:36

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

well +Inv rC+++ rN+ Dex-4 SInv are better then rC++ rF- but he couldn't know that
~online scoring~

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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:41

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Eyesburn wrote:It was +0 pearl dragon armour of the Kettle-Drum {+Inv rC+++ rN+ Dex-4 SInv}

How do you find that?

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:42

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

That PDA is pretty bad though, especially considering he has a ring of rF++.
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 778

Joined: Thursday, 13th March 2014, 20:15

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 15:44

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

~online scoring~

Pig's in zen
Pig is nude
Unashamed

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 16:04

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Use
flash_screen_message += distortion
it works in trunk.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Saturday, 13th June 2015, 16:17

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I could swear I looked in the lst file after I died and it still just said pearl dragon armour. Maybe it takes time to update.
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Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1386

Joined: Sunday, 5th April 2015, 22:37

Post Monday, 15th June 2015, 17:05

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I would save for PDA. I have sucsessfully done two lair branches as a troll in a robe.

EDIT: Saving for the PDA is the wrong choice, as you will eventually get enough gold for both.
Last edited by WingedEspeon on Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/playe ... speon.html. I started playing in 0.16.1
I achieved greatplayer in less than a year.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Monday, 15th June 2015, 17:35

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

I would probably save for the PDA but I'm not sure I'd claim it's optimal to do so, more so that I'm just an optimistic saver/min-maxer type personality. And the fact that the randart PDA was stuck at +0 means it wasn't very good, and the IDA was much better in this game, although you can't know that ahead of time. The egos on it were pretty good, and it's especially funny that it offered more cold resistance than the IDA, but +0 ruins it.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Monday, 15th June 2015, 23:02

Re: Buy or save? Which dragon armour?

Can we just not pretend that useless items aren't useless

+0 armour you can't enchant is crap, especially +0 armour with -4 dex on it. You don't need to say "oh it's better than a -5 robe" or "but what if there's no other armour in the game", the majority of randart body armour is unwearable and this is an example of it

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