CIP: SpEn Advice Needed

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 04:15 by Dhanvanthri

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.2 (tiles) character file. Dhanvanthri Natarajan the Covert (SpEn) Turns: 11218, Time: 00:31:34 HP 53/53 AC 8 Str 4 XL: 10 Next: 85% MP 23/23 EV 14 Int 21 God: Okawaru [*****.] Gold 133 SH 0 Dex 16 Spells: 4 memorised, 5 levels left rFire + . . SeeInvis + l - +7 quick blade rCold . . . Clarity . O - +2 troll leather armour rNeg . . . rCorr . (shield restricted) rPois + rRot . w - +2 hat rElec . Spirit . (no cloak) SustAb . Warding . (gloves unavailable) rMut . Stasis . (boots unavailable) Gourm . (no amulet) MR +.... J - ring of fire s - ring of protection from cold @: very quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy A: unfitting armour, see invisible, clever 1, clumsy 1, herbivore 3, speed 3, poison resistance, robust 1, slow metabolism 2, evolution 1 a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Okawaru. Okawaru is extremely pleased with you. You are full. You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 11 of its levels. You have collected 553 gold pieces. You have spent 420 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons h - a +0 dagger of venom l - a +7 quick blade (weapon) L - a +2 dagger of protection M - a +0 dagger of draining Missiles k - 32 poisoned needles Armour w - a +2 hat (worn) O - a +2 troll leather armour (worn) Comestibles B - 2 bread rations H - 3 royal jellies Scrolls a - a scroll labeled AGETHE KLIESTU i - 5 scrolls of remove curse j - a scroll of enchant armour n - 4 scrolls of teleportation u - 2 scrolls of identify v - 2 scrolls labeled SOFFISAETT y - a scroll labeled VIBLOF IMIMA E - a scroll labeled VALUNAOXTA Jewellery g - an uncursed amulet of guardian spirit s - a ring of protection from cold (left hand) J - a ring of fire (right hand) K - an uncursed ring of ice Potions b - a potion of mutation d - a potion of porridge f - a potion of flight p - a potion of brilliance z - a potion of lignification A - 3 potions of curing G - 3 potions of might N - an oily black potion Books c - a book of Maledictions Spells Type Level *Corona Hexes 1 Sure Blade Hexes/Charms 2 *Ensorcelled Hibernation Hexes/Ice 2 *Confuse Hexes 3 *Dazzling Spray Conjuration/Hexes 3 Enslavement Hexes 4 o - a book of Alchemy Spells Type Level Sublimation of Blood Necromancy 2 Alistair's Intoxication Transmutation/Poison 4 Condensation Shield Ice 4 Petrify Transmutation/Earth 4 Ignite Poison Fire/Transmutation 5 I - a book of Transfigurations Spells Type Level Stoneskin Transmutation/Earth 2 Ice Form Ice/Transmutation 4 Statue Form Transmutation/Earth 6 Dragon Form Transmutation 7 Miscellaneous e - a legendary deck of cards {drawn: 1} Skills: * Level 3.2 Fighting * Level 6.7 Short Blades - Level 0.5 Armour + Level 7.8 Dodging - Level 13.7 Stealth Level 0.9 Shields - Level 2.8 Spellcasting - Level 1.3 Conjurations + Level 8.0 Hexes * Level 6.2 Ice Magic * Level 4.0 Invocations You have 5 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Corona Hex #####.. 1% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice ###... 1% 2 ##..... c - Dazzling Spray Conj/Hex ###..... 10% 3 ###.... d - Confuse Hex #####... 1% 3 ###.... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (10/15) Temple (0/1) D:7 Lair (1/8) D:8 Orc: D:9-12 Altars: Elyvilon Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Shops: D:6 =[ D:9 * Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are tiny and cannot use many weapons and most armour. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. You are a herbivore. You cover ground extremely quickly. You need consume almost no food. Your mind is acute. (Int +2) You are clumsy. (Dex -2) Your system is resistant to poisons. You are robust (+10% HP). You evolve. Message History Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Saving game... please wait. Welcome back, Dhanvanthri Natarajan the Spriggan Enchanter. Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat! Press ? for a list of commands and other information. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Saving game... please wait. Welcome back, Dhanvanthri Natarajan the Spriggan Enchanter. Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat! Press ? for a list of commands and other information. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Char dumped to '/home/dhanvanthri/.crawl/morgue/DhanvanthriNatarajan.txt'. Saving game... please wait. .............####P#.# #......# .............# ###.# #......# .............. #.## #......## .............# #..# #.......# .............# #.###########......## .............# #..................# ...######....# ##..................# ..## #.....# #...................# ..# #....# ##.........#.#####..# ..### ###....#####.........## ##(## ..#.###.#...................# #..# ..................#.#####....## #.## ..................###.@.#....P# #.# ##................#....#####..## ##.# #....>..........#..#(.#...##.P #..# #.#######.......#..#####..#..## ##.## #.# ##......PP..#.##.##...# #..# #(### # #.............#.#....#####.## ##.P.#P.###...............#.....#.#P.# .#......... ................#........# ......(.... )....)..................# ########## .####P####.###.######### # ### ### ### There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures A manticore (D:8) A black mamba (Lair:1) A torpor snail (Lair:1) A komodo dragon (Lair:1) 2 hippogriffs (Lair:1) 5 wolves (Lair:1) 2 hill giant zombies (D:8) 9 yaks (Lair:1) A porcupine (Lair:1) 3 water moccasins 2 orc warriors A black bear (D:5) A centaur (D:5) 3 ogres 10 giant frogs A cyclops zombie (D:9) An eye of draining (D:9) 8 wights A giant frog zombie (D:4) 3 killer bees 2 crimson imps 5 hounds 3 jellies 5 orc priests A giant frog skeleton (D:7) 6 orc wizards 3 iguanas 3 worker ants A sky beast zombie (D:8) Ijyb (D:3) A mummy (D:8) 3 gnolls (D:5) 5 green rats (Lair:1) 12 adders An orc zombie (D:8) A shadow imp (D:9) 2 giant mites (D:4) A worm (D:2) 2 iguana skeletons (D:8) 8 giant geckos 3 oozes 30 orcs 2 ball pythons 14 bats A bat skeleton (D:7) 5 giant cockroaches 18 goblins 9 hobgoblins 5 jackals 13 kobolds 6 quokkas A giant gecko zombie (D:6) 6 giant newts A hobgoblin skeleton (D:9) A kobold skeleton (D:4) 11 rats A rat skeleton (D:4) A rat zombie (D:5) 3 ballistomycetes (D:8) 254 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A giant spore (D:8) 1 creature vanquished. Grand Total: 255 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Dhanvanthri Natarajan, the Spriggan Enchanter, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 9/9 MP: 4/4 299 | D:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth 335 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 8/13 MP: 7/7 447 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Ensorcelled Hibernation 1168 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/16 MP: 3/9 1225 | D:1 | Learned a level 3 spell: Dazzling Spray 1739 | D:2 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 1741 | D:2 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 2127 | D:2 | Reached skill level 6 in Stealth 2239 | D:3 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 2354 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 18/21 MP: 0/12 2733 | D:3 | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru 2818 | D:3 | Noticed Ijyb 2844 | D:3 | Killed Ijyb 3187 | D:4 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 25/25 MP: 5/15 3373 | D:4 | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth 3557 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations 4142 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 29/29 MP: 15/17 4312 | D:4 | Learned a level 3 spell: Confuse 4446 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 4617 | D:5 | Acquired Okawaru's first power 4636 | D:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic 4754 | D:5 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 5006 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth 5006 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Hexes 5006 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 24/32 MP: 7/19 5151 | D:5 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 5286 | D:6 | Found Fisk's Antique Armour Boutique. 5396 | D:6 | Found Joecki Satag's Jewellery Shop. 5566 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations 5786 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 5786 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth 5920 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 6324 | D:7 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 37/37 MP: 2/20 6480 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 7305 | D:7 | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth 7434 | D:7 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 7725 | D:8 | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth 8022 | D:8 | Gained mutation: You are robust (+10% HP). [potion of mutation] 8022 | D:8 | Gained mutation: You evolve. [potion of mutation] 8022 | D:8 | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [potion of mutation] 8023 | D:8 | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [potion of mutation] 8023 | D:8 | Gained mutation: Your system is resistant to poisons. [potion of mutation] 8023 | D:8 | Gained mutation: You are very clumsy. (Dex -4) [potion of mutation] 8053 | D:8 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 8114 | D:8 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 37/45 MP: 14/22 8513 | D:8 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 8708 | D:8 | Noticed a manticore 8714 | D:8 | Killed a manticore 8872 | D:8 | Reached skill level 12 in Stealth 9045 | D:8 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 9049 | D:8 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 9234 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades 9666 | D:9 | Reached skill level 13 in Stealth 9668 | D:9 | Lost mutation: You are very clumsy. (Dex -4) [evolution] 9776 | D:9 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 9779 | D:9 | Found Tooch's Profane Products. 9797 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 9965 | D:6 | Bought a shiny troll leather armour for 420 gold pieces 10136 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 10303 | Lair:1 | Noticed a torpor snail 10343 | Lair:1 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 43/50 MP: 14/23 10497 | Lair:1 | Noticed a black mamba 10695 | Lair:1 | Killed a torpor snail 10748 | Lair:1 | Killed a black mamba 10748 | Lair:1 | Acquired Okawaru's second power 10750 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic 11130 | Lair:1 | Noticed a komodo dragon 11137 | Lair:1 | Killed a komodo dragon 11215 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Dagger | 128 | 155 | 468 | 40 || 791 Cast: Corona | 7 | 4 | 4 | || 15 Ensorcelled Hiber | 8 | 30 | 80 | 41 || 159 Dazzling Spray | 3 | 1 | 5 | || 9 Confuse | | 1 | 30 | 5 || 36 Invok: Heroism | | | 3 | || 3 Evoke: Wand | | | 1 | || 1 Deck | | | | 1 || 1 Use: Scroll | 3 | | 3 | || 6 Potion | | | 13 | 1 || 14 Stab: Sleeping | 21 | 25 | 66 | 20 || 132 Invisible | 1 | | | || 1 Confused | | 1 | 19 | 3 || 23 Distracted | | | 1 | || 1 Eat: Bread ration | | 1 | 2 | 1 || 4 Pizza | | | | 1 || 1

I just picked up the +7 QuickBlade, and I don't know what to do. I need advice on skills and spells, such that I can try for a 3 rune win.

UPDATE:

RIP. I wasn't able to survive long enough to put any of this advice to the test. Sorry guys. I dropped the ball on this one.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 04:59 by godzillablitz

I'd prefer to let more experienced players comment, but one thing I did notice...

I'd recommend learning Enslavement from the beginning Hexes book. With enough Hexes skill, it can be used for crowd control. If you get attacked by a group of something, you can enslave half of them and stand back and watch them beat each other to death. Great fun. Then you can Control-Attack the friendlies that are left, which often catches them off guard and kills them outright as well.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 08:21 by Sprucery

I would put on that amulet of guardian spirit, identify that potion, read-id that stack of 2 scrolls and enchant the troll leather armour. Definitely learn Enslavement.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 09:05 by celem

Absolutely get Enslave and Guardian Spirit and the Troll Leather.

You can switch to the Quick Blade for most of your fighting needs at this point, might want to hang onto the venom dagger for stuff you cant put to sleep (Death Yaks comes to mind). Keep an eye out for ?BrandWeapon

Lose the ring of fire, your ring of cold protection balances back the resists but its working as a spellpower hinderence on your Ensorcelled Hibernate. I'd rather wear the rC+ and have an empty finger...

If you are going to carry that deck around then read id on it to reveal the top card.

Other spells to look for depends a lot on which books become available, for a 3-rune SpEn I like to take late conjurations such that OoD and Iron shot are options by the time you do zot.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 09:47 by Hurkyl

SpEn should not train Ice higher than Spellcasting: due to the +4 difference in aptitudes, Spellcasting skill is just as good as Ice skill for increasing the spellpower on any two-school ice spell, but does other things for you too.

Furthermore, if you're not branching into ice magic, then in my opinion, SpEn usually shouldn't train Ice beyond 3-5 skill anyways: while training hexes to increase the spellpower on Ensorcelled Hibernation is eventually slower, it will still get you to the cap and it helps with Confuse and Enslavement too. So while training more Ice gets you a slight boost early on, the investment is eventually wasted.

With where you're at, I would probably get the quick blade to mindelay (8 skill). Then I would (in no particular order) train Hexes up to 12 or so to make Confuse more reliable on more resistant monsters (e.g. Elephants) and Spellcasting up to 6 or 9.

(maybe Okawaru changes things; I can't really wrap my head around how he would help a SpEn build aside from weapon gifts and dealing with the occasional hexproof monster you feel must die)

I'm not sure if a stab with that quick blade can kill a hydra with your skill: you should probably keep one of the daggers around for that; the dagger of protection would be best, to get a little extra protection if the hydra wakes up when you move next to it.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 09:53 by celem

Oka is quite handy on a SpEn for the armour gifts, armour is always nice for a Spriggan who otherwise has a hard time finding anything that fits. Also with Finesse you dont actually need the Haste spell and can ignore it in all its forms for most of the game since a Sp's movement speed cant be increased any further. The higher spellcasting skill is also not a huge problem on a Spriggan character, reducing the hunger of your staple spells like confuse is pretty key when you cant eat chunks. Fully with you on the Hexes over Ice point though.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 10:02 by Sar

Hyrkil wrote:So while training more Ice gets you a slight boost early on, the investment is eventually wasted.

If something does give you a boost in the early game it is most definitely not a waste.

I guess I would also mention Ozo Armour, but it's not guaranteed to exist and probably not a valid thing to mention.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 10:28 by mikee

dodging is highly important for you

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 12:21 by Hurkyl

Sar wrote:
Hyrkil wrote:So while training more Ice gets you a slight boost early on, the investment is eventually wasted.

If something does give you a boost in the early game it is most definitely not a waste.

Yes, but how much? It's a very minor thing, and with Spriggan speed it almost doesn't matter -- and if you absolutely positively must disable something now, Confuse or Enslavement is usually the better choice.

Even if the game ended at lair I don't think training ice past 3 or 5 to boost the success rate on EH on SpEn in this way is a good play; the fact that it does nothing for you later on (unless you get some ice magic) just cements my opinion.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 12:30 by DDDD

Hurkyl wrote:Even if the game ended at lair I don't think training ice past 3 or 5 to boost the success rate on EH on SpEn in this way is a good play; the fact that it does nothing for you later on (unless you get some ice magic) just cements my opinion.

A skill of 5 virtually costs nothing. What's wrong with learning a skill that helps to get through the early game when the cost becomes neglegible soon?

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 12:41 by Sar

Hyrkil wrote:Yes, but how much?

~generally~

DDDD is right talking about how XP cost becoming completely negligible by the time the investment becomes "wasted" - you could probably kill a herd of yaks or two (a trivial task for most characters) and completely recover the "wasted" experience.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 12:49 by Hurkyl

DDDD wrote:
Hurkyl wrote:Even if the game ended at lair I don't think training ice past 3 or 5 to boost the success rate on EH on SpEn in this way is a good play; the fact that it does nothing for you later on (unless you get some ice magic) just cements my opinion.

A skill of 5 virtually costs nothing. What's wrong with learning a skill that helps to get through the early game when the cost becomes neglegible soon?

Because it means you didn't learn some other skill that helps to get through the early game and continues to be relevant later on.

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 13:04 by Sar

That's a different question: is raising the power on EH the best way to spend my XP right now? More relevant than "will my XP investment be useless later"?

Thursday, 29th January 2015, 17:25 by DDDD

By the way, another reason for raising spellcasting is to reduce food cost. Unlike other species spriggans rely almost entirely on permafood, and at the moment you pay about 6% of a bread ration for a single enslavement attempt. I'm not saying you need 20 spellcasting now, but 2.8 is really low if you intend do seriously rely on magic.

CIP: SpEn Advice Needed

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