YASD: OpNe^Kiku

[Berder]

A really dumb, unavoidable death that I feel can't go unsung. I go into a bailey, find myself in a 1x1 room. I open the door and immediately I have a player ghost berserker in my face that I have no chance of killing. I can see the exit - on the other side of the ghost. The ghost has MR++ and the walls are not diggable. The only way I can survive is to read an unidentified blink scroll. I start reading my unidentified scrolls, but die before I make it to blinking.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-3553-gf2c86d1 (webtiles) character file.

4730 Berder the Merchant of Misery (level 10, -7/71 HPs)
             Began as an Octopode Necromancer on Jan 10, 2015.
             Was a Believer of Kikubaaqudgha.
             Mangled by Haifisch's ghost (25 damage)
             ... in a bailey.
             The game lasted 00:53:42 (14632 turns).

Berder the Merchant of Misery (OpNe)               Turns: 14632, Time: 00:53:42

Health: -7/71      AC:  6    Str: 13    XL:     10   Next: 46%
Magic:  21/24      EV: 13    Int: 25    God:    Kikubaaqudgha [**....]
Gold:   467        SH:  0    Dex: 13    Spells: 4 memorised, 13 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     a - +3 flail (protect)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     (no shield)
rNeg   . . .     SustAb   +     (helmet restricted)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     y - amulet of faith
rElec  .         Spirit   .     d - +1 ring of evasion
rCorr  .         Warding  .     r - +1 ring of intelligence
rMut   .         Stasis   .     t - ring of wizardry
MR     .....                    K - ring of sustain abilities
Stlth  +++.......               G - +4 ring of intelligence
                                V - ring of see invisible
                                (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: mighty, about to teleport, not resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly
stealthy
A: almost no armour, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, camouflage 1, gelatinous
body 1
a: Receive Corpses, Renounce Religion


You were in a bailey.
You worshipped Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha was pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 10 of its levels.
You also visited: Bailey.

You collected 467 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +3 flail of protection (weapon)
 b - a +0 blowgun
 O - a +0 arbalest of evasion
Missiles
 h - 16 curare-tipped needles
 E - 48 poisoned needles
 I - 8 javelins (quivered)
Magical staves
 o - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 S - an uncursed staff of poison
Jewellery
 d - a +1 ring of evasion (left tentacle)
 r - a +1 ring of intelligence (right tentacle)
 t - a ring of wizardry (on tentacle)
 y - an amulet of faith (around mantle)
 G - a +4 ring of intelligence (on tentacle)
 K - a ring of sustain abilities (on tentacle)
 V - a ring of see invisible (on tentacle)
Magical devices
 k - a wand of confusion (20)
 l - a wand of disintegration (14)
 N - a wand of frost (29)
 T - a wand of random effects (29)
Scrolls
 i - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 s - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 v - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 w - a scroll of recharging
 x - 2 scrolls of fear
 A - a scroll of fog
 B - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 L - a scroll of immolation {unknown}
 M - a scroll of blinking {unknown}
 P - 2 scrolls of noise
 Q - a scroll of brand weapon {unknown}
 W - a scroll of silence {unknown}
Potions
 p - a potion of flight
 u - a potion of brilliance
 z - a potion of resistance {unknown}
 J - a potion of might
 R - a potion of curing {unknown}
 U - a potion of agility {unknown}
 X - a potion of cure mutation {unknown}
Books
 j - a book of Necromancy   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Pain                         Necromancy                    1
    b - Animate Skeleton             Necromancy                    1
    c - Vampiric Draining            Necromancy                    3
    d - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    e - Animate Dead                 Necromancy                    4
    f - Control Undead               Necromancy                    4
 D - a book of Unlife   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Recall                       Summoning/Translocation       3
    b - Animate Dead                 Necromancy                    4
    c - Control Undead               Necromancy                    4
    d - Cigotuvi's Embrace           Necromancy                    5
    e - Death Channel                Necromancy                    6
    f - Simulacrum                   Ice/Necromancy                6
 H - a book of Frost   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Freeze                       Ice                           1
    b - Throw Frost                  Conjuration/Ice               2
    c - Ozocubu's Armour             Charms/Ice                    3
    d - Throw Icicle                 Conjuration/Ice               4
    e - Summon Ice Beast             Ice/Summoning                 4
    f - Condensation Shield          Ice                           4
Comestibles
 c - 10 bread rations
 f - 9 meat rations
 g - 10 fruits
 Y - a chunk of flesh


   Skills:
 - Level 7.5 Fighting
 - Level 7.8 Maces & Flails
 - Level 2.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.9 Stealth
 + Level 6.7 Spellcasting
 + Level 8.6 Necromancy


You had 13 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Pain                  Necr           ####         1%          1    None
b - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
c - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          1%          4    ###....
d - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   1%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/15)             Temple (1/1) D:5         
  Lair: D:8-11         Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:5 *   D:7 %

Annotations:
D:3 Grinder
D:7 centaur
D:9 Razawaza's ghost, experienced MiAs
Bailey Haifisch's ghost, powerful TeBe


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot wear most types of armour.
You are amphibious.
You can wear up to eight rings at the same time.
You can use your tentacles to constrict many enemies at once.
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth).
Your rubbery body absorbs attacks (AC +1).


Message History

Here: Haifisch's ghost (blue smoke)
An open door.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll labeled CAIKHL JABAU, it crumbles to dust.
You feel strangely unstable. It was a scroll of teleportation.
Haifisch's ghost barely misses you.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
It was a potion of might.
You feel very mighty all of a sudden.
Haifisch's ghost hits you!!
You die...
Kikubaaqudgha rasps: "You have failed me! Welcome... death!"

###
#@#
##W#
  #§.
   ....
    .∩..'
    ....
     ..
     '


You could see Haifisch's ghost.

Vanquished Creatures
  A centaur warrior (D:8)
  A trapdoor spider zombie (D:8)
  A steam dragon (D:8)
  A hungry ghost (D:8)
  Edmund (D:4)
  A wolf (D:9)
  2 phantoms
  3 orc warriors
  A centaur (D:8)
  A big kobold (D:8)
  An ogre (D:8)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:9)
  5 giant frogs
  2 scorpions
  3 killer bees (D:9)
  A goliath beetle (D:7)
  A giant frog zombie (D:8)
  6 hounds
  4 crimson imps
  7 orc priests
  4 worker ants
  2 iguanas
  16 orc wizards
  12 adders
  A worker ant zombie (D:7)
  6 gnolls (D:9)
  3 shadow imps
  3 river rats (D:9)
  2 giant mites
  4 worms
  4 adder skeletons
  12 giant geckos
  3 oozes
  33 orcs
  2 ball pythons
  23 bats
  A bat skeleton (D:4)
  A bat zombie (D:6)
  5 giant cockroaches
  16 goblins
  13 hobgoblins
  12 jackals
  2 quokkas
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:4)
  4 giant newts
  17 kobolds
  19 rats
265 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A hungry ghost (D:8)
  A phantom (D:8)
  An orc warrior (D:7)
  A black bear (D:8)
  2 giant frogs (D:8)
  A scorpion (D:8)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:5)
  3 orc priests
  3 hounds
  2 orc wizards
  A worker ant (D:4)
  2 hound skeletons
  An adder (D:5)
  A human zombie (D:4)
  A worm (D:5)
  An adder zombie (D:3)
  11 orcs
  A bat zombie (D:3)
  3 giant cockroaches
  2 goblins
  2 hobgoblins
  3 jackals
  3 kobolds
  6 bats
  A giant newt (D:6)
  8 rats
63 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A giant frog zombie (D:8)
  3 giant frog skeletons
  A centaur skeleton (D:8)
  Natasha (D:3)
  2 killer bee zombies (D:9)
  A big kobold zombie (D:8)
  2 hound skeletons
  A hound zombie (D:9)
  A scorpion zombie (D:6)
  2 worker ant zombies
  2 worm zombies (D:5)
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  2 adder skeletons (D:3)
  3 adder zombies (D:5)
  A felid zombie (D:3)
  4 orc skeletons
  5 bat skeletons
  8 bat zombies
  A ball python skeleton (D:1)
  2 giant cockroach zombies
  2 giant gecko skeletons
  3 giant gecko zombies
  A giant newt skeleton (D:1)
  A gnoll zombie (D:9)
  4 goblin skeletons
  3 goblin zombies
  2 hobgoblin skeletons
  2 jackal skeletons
  A jackal zombie (D:5)
  2 kobold skeletons
  17 orc zombies
  A quokka skeleton (D:5)
  3 rat skeletons
  8 rat zombies
  A fungus (D:9)
95 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 423 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Berder, the Octopode Necromancer, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 3/3
    35 | D:1      | Learned a level 1 spell: Animate Skeleton
   337 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 6/17 MP: 0/4
  1167 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  1167 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/23 MP: 0/6
  2130 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 21/30 MP: 5/7
  3158 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Animate Dead
  3272 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/36 MP: 6/9
  3402 | D:3      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  3402 | D:3      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  3403 | D:3      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  3936 | D:3      | Noticed Natasha
  3940 | D:3      | Killed Natasha
  4132 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  4367 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  4367 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 27/45 MP: 6/10
  4486 | D:3      | Your ally Natasha died
  4492 | D:3      | HP: 2/45 [orc wizard/magic dart (7)]
  5126 | D:3      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  5396 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  5462 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  6139 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 38/53 MP: 8/12
  7062 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
  7145 | D:4      | Killed Edmund
  7783 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  7818 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
  8104 | D:5      | Noticed a moth of wrath
  8187 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  8313 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 42/60 MP: 13/13
  8444 | D:5      | Found Celoiv's General Store.
  8636 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8641 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  9122 | D:5      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  9413 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 10052 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 36/64 MP: 15/15
 10571 | D:7      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 10593 | D:7      | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 10723 | D:7      | Found Iwawo's Food Boutique.
 11086 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Necromancy
 11128 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 11834 | D:8      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
 11988 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 12438 | D:8      | Noticed a centaur warrior
 12481 | D:8      | Killed a centaur warrior
 12481 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 12481 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 29/71 MP: 21/23
 12684 | D:8      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 12791 | D:8      | Became a worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha
 13325 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Necromancy
 13949 | D:9      | Noticed Razawaza's ghost (experienced MiAs)
 14011 | D:9      | Acquired Kikubaaqudgha's first power
 14011 | D:9      | Received a gift from Kikubaaqudgha
 14020 | D:9      | Identified Kikubaaqudgha's Incunabulum of Darkness (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 14540 | D:9      | Acquired Kikubaaqudgha's second power
 14603 | D:9      | Found a flagged portal.
 14625 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
 14626 | Bailey   | Noticed Haifisch's ghost (powerful TeBe)
 14629 | Bailey   | HP: 2/71 [Haifisch's ghost (22)]
 14632 | Bailey   | Mangled by Haifisch's ghost


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    15 |       |       |       ||    15
       Club              |    12 |       |       |       ||    12
       Dagger            |    35 |   102 |    43 |       ||   180
       Flail             |       |       |   247 |   133 ||   380
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |    25 |       ||    25
 Cast: Pain              |    29 |    90 |    35 |    19 ||   173
       Animate Skeleton  |    17 |    16 |    18 |     7 ||    58
       Animate Dead      |       |    15 |    28 |    15 ||    58
  Use: Potion            |       |     5 |     3 |     2 ||    10
       Scroll            |       |     4 |     5 |     4 ||    13
 Stab: Sleeping          |     6 |     4 |    13 |     2 ||    25
       Distracted        |       |     2 |       |     1 ||     3
  Eat: Chunk             |     4 |    15 |    24 |     6 ||    49
       Pizza             |       |     1 |       |     1 ||     2
       Beef jerky        |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1


[Sprucery]

Commiserations.

That's what online play can do to you...

[Razawaza]

Imagine if you had read-id'd the scroll of silence!

[HilariousDeathArtist]

That is pretty unfortunate. I would suggest learning control undead on your next Necromancer to deal with early player ghosts.

[Berder]

That is pretty unfortunate. I would suggest learning control undead on your next Necromancer to deal with early player ghosts.

Yeah, but it wouldn't have worked in this case due to MR++.

[Sar]

No time to aa and Animate Dead? I would probably train some Dodging before any weapon skill, too.

[Berder]

No time to aa and Animate Dead? I would probably train some Dodging before any weapon skill, too.

At 0 invo I wouldn't expect enough corpses to make a difference. Plus the ghost had an axe.

Yeah, it was primarily a melee pode with support necromancy. My plan was to switch over to more necromancy and a little more dodging by early lair.

[Arrhythmia]

At 0 invo I wouldn't expect enough corpses to make a difference.

You actually had 8.6 invo though.

[Berder]

At 0 invo I wouldn't expect enough corpses to make a difference.

You actually had 8.6 invo though.

Oh, right. Anyway, ghost had an axe and I'd be very dubious about a few likely orc zombies being enough to kill it. Does corpse delivery give the corpses equipment as well? Regardless, I think it wouldn't be enough to kill a berserker ghost that was "Extremely dangerous" to me at xl10. Blinking was my best shot.

[Sar]

Nvm, I looked at your map. That is pretty tough.

[Arrhythmia]

At 0 invo I wouldn't expect enough corpses to make a difference.

You actually had 8.6 invo though.

Oh, right. Anyway, ghost had an axe and I'd be very dubious about a few likely orc zombies being enough to kill it. Does corpse delivery give the corpses equipment as well? Regardless, I think it wouldn't be enough to kill a berserker ghost that was "Extremely dangerous" to me at xl10. Blinking was my best shot.

Yeah, you were pretty fucked.

[dpeg]

This is a death as unfair as they come (not that the game should try to avoid this... sometimes it just happens). The only bit that occurs to me: how did you spend your ?identify? The absence of ?teleportation adds to the bad luck... did none generate yet?

[Arrhythmia]

This is a death as unfair as they come (not that the game should try to avoid this... sometimes it just happens). The only bit that occurs to me: how did you spend your ?identify? The absence of ?teleportation adds to the bad luck... did none generate yet?

He was about to teleport in the morgue; I'm guessing he just hadn't ID'd them yet.

[mikee]

This death doesn't look unavoidable to me, but I feel uncomfortable about explaining why I think so.

[Sar]

Don't be such a tease!

[nago]

Hei now I want know!

[duvessa]

not mikee but:
- could have identified his scrolls earlier
- could have built the character better
- could have not entered the bailey
- could have buffed before entering the bailey and opening the door
- possibly could have used consumables better after seeing the ghost (message log doesn't go far enough to tell)
- could have memorized control undead

[Berder]

not mikee but:
- could have identified his scrolls earlier

As far as scrolls of identify go, I used them all on scrolls and potions. At the time of the bailey, I did have a couple stacks of more than one scroll that I hadn't yet read-ID'd because I'd picked up a few scrolls recently. However, it would be pretty obsessive playstyle to constantly read-ID every new scroll at the time I pick it up, considering that I hadn't yet ID'd teleport, which means to read-ID anything I would have needed to go up to a cleared level.

- could have built the character better

There wasn't any OpNe build that would have enabled me to kill that ghost. Even if I'd gone 100% melee it would not have been possible.

- could have not entered the bailey

Get real

- could have buffed before entering the bailey and opening the door

There was no reason to think I needed any buffs at that time.

- possibly could have used consumables better after seeing the ghost (message log doesn't go far enough to tell)

Watch the TV if you think it was possible to quaff potions and kill it. I have a lot of experience about what melee podes can and can't kill. At that stage of the game, extremely dangerous berserker player ghosts are not killable in plain melee, no matter how buffed, and especially considering I wasn't pure melee.

- could have memorized control undead

Yes, I could have memorized it. But for the third time, the ghost had MR++. You know how MR works? MR++ before lair means "no chance in hell."

[duvessa]

Yes, I could have memorized it. But for the third time, the ghost had MR++. You know how MR works? MR++ before lair means "no chance in hell."

- you had identified brilliance in your inventory

[Berder]

Yes, I could have memorized it. But for the third time, the ghost had MR++. You know how MR works? MR++ before lair means "no chance in hell."

- you had identified brilliance in your inventory

A fair point, but it would still be pretty unlikely. MR++ is MR 80-118. If I were an xl 20 deep elf enchanter with 20 spellcasting and 20 hexes, something with MR 80 would still generally take me several tries, and something with MR 100+ would be in the "don't try" category. At XL 10 with 8.4 necromancy, even with brilliance? It's doubtful. Read-ID'ing blink would still have been the better shot.

[duvessa]

Yes, I could have memorized it. But for the third time, the ghost had MR++.
...
A fair point, but it would still be pretty unlikely. MR++ is MR 80-118.

the ghost that killed you had 73 MR

[Berder]

Yes, I could have memorized it. But for the third time, the ghost had MR++.
...
A fair point, but it would still be pretty unlikely. MR++ is MR 80-118.

the ghost that killed you had 73 MR

Where did you find that information? Also, were the MR ranges corresponding to +, ++, etc, changed recently?

Anyway, at the time I didn't know it was only MR 73 so it would still be a gamble, and blink would have been the better choice. Not that 73 MR is something to sneeze at.

[duvessa]

Where did you find that information?

it's what an XL11 ghost without extra MR has, and that ghost did not have extra MR
i think it displays as MR++ because the game doesn't think you know the ghost is XL11, even though you do, and assumes it's XL12.5 or something (aren't player ghosts great)

Anyway, at the time I didn't know it was only MR 73 so it would still be a gamble

68 power control undead vs. 73 MR is close to 50% and you have several casts---wait I just realized I'm talking to berder nevermind

[Berder]

Where did you find that information?

it's what an XL11 ghost without extra MR has, and that ghost did not have extra MR
i think it displays as MR++ because the game doesn't think you know the ghost is XL11, even though you do, and assumes it's XL12.5 or something (aren't player ghosts great)

If it says MR++ and you can only guess why, then it sounds like there are factors involved that you don't fully understand. So how much can you trust your belief that it has MR 73?

Anyway, at the time I didn't know it was only MR 73 so it would still be a gamble

68 power control undead vs. 73 MR is close to 50% and you have several casts---

Doesn't spell power for hexes/enchantments go through an extra stepdown before being compared to MR? As I understand it, this reduced "Enchantment" power is what's directly compared to MR. So if 68 is the spellpower, the enchantment power would be somewhat less and the success rate would not be so close to 50%.

Second, what's the justification for your claim that it's 68 spellpower?

Anyway, all this depends on source diving and is not something a player should have to know.

[Sar]

You know you can look up that ghost's morgue, right?

Here it is (probably, unless he lost another Be in a bailey): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Haifisch/morgue-Haifisch-20150110-071003.txt

[GlassGo]

There was no reason to think I needed any buffs at that time.

I agree with all that you said, but not with this. I nearly died in Baily with my current FoFi^Chei. And it was just usual orc knight.

[duvessa]

If it says MR++ and you can only guess why, then it sounds like there are factors involved that you don't fully understand. So how much can you trust your belief that it has MR 73?

debug mode

Doesn't spell power for hexes/enchantments go through an extra stepdown before being compared to MR? As I understand it, this reduced "Enchantment" power is what's directly compared to MR. So if 68 is the spellpower, the enchantment power would be somewhat less and the success rate would not be so close to 50%.

not in this case

Second, what's the justification for your claim that it's 68 spellpower?

debug mode

[Berder]

If it says MR++ and you can only guess why, then it sounds like there are factors involved that you don't fully understand. So how much can you trust your belief that it has MR 73?

debug mode

Doesn't spell power for hexes/enchantments go through an extra stepdown before being compared to MR? As I understand it, this reduced "Enchantment" power is what's directly compared to MR. So if 68 is the spellpower, the enchantment power would be somewhat less and the success rate would not be so close to 50%.

not in this case

Why not?

Second, what's the justification for your claim that it's 68 spellpower?

debug mode

Can you explain exactly what you did to get the number? There's some question over whether it's accurate and whether it accounts for the enchantment power stepdown.

Anyway, you may be right about the success chance. Apparently, prior to the enchantment power stepdown, Control Undead gets a +50% bonus. So if it is indeed near 50% success, brilliance + control undead would take an average of 3 turns total. I spent 5 turns use-identifying items before I died, so your plan would have an above-even chance of working, which might be better than the plan of read-ID'ing blink. But it would still carry a significant chance of death.

[duvessa]

when you hex a monster in debug mode, it prints the power of the hex and the MR of the monster