CIP GrBe -- XL 17 what to skill next?

[badwithusernames]

Ok, on Blink's advice viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13014, I'm having a blast bashing shit with my eveningstar. My question is what should I work on next?

Should I bother with a hand crossbow? So far I've been chucking javelins and tomahawks w/o doing much damage.

I'm about to clear Spiders5 and then probably shoals? I have a pile of scrolls in lair I'm about to ID after spiders.

I'm also going to take the amulet of faith off since I gotta bite the bullet at some point.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-2194-g98569aa (webtiles) character file.

Vorhito the Bludgeoner (Gargoyle Berserker)        Turns: 39958, Time: 06:31:43

HP 113/113       AC 34     Str 30      XL: 17   Next: 14%
MP   5/5         EV 20     Int 12      God: Trog [******]
Gold 1449        SH 10     Dex 18      Spells:  0 memorised, 16 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     a - +8 eveningstar (antimagic)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     t - +0 scale mail {rF+}
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     c - +2 buckler {rPois}
rPois  +         rRot     +     s - +1 helmet "Aminoa" {Str+4 Dex+1}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     w - +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" {Str+4 Int+3}
SustAb .         Warding  .     P - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  .                        r - amulet of faith
MR     +....                    i - +3 ring of slaying
                                M - +4 ring of evasion

@: quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, cold resistance 1, negative energy
resistance 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot
immunity, AC +12
a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce
Religion


You are on level 4 of the Spider Nest.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 33 of its levels.

You have collected 3504 gold pieces.
You have spent 2055 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +8 antimagic eveningstar (weapon)
 n - a +0 blowgun
 v - the +7 flail "Quitoasa" {crush, Contam Str+2}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Spider Nest)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
 C - a +4 antimagic flail
 F - a runed morningstar
 N - a +4 hand crossbow of evasion
 R - a scimitar of flaming
Missiles
 e - 17 curare-tipped needles
 h - 5 silver tomahawks (quivered)
 A - 3 javelins of returning
 S - 13 poisoned javelins
Armour
 b - a pair of glowing gloves
 c - a +2 buckler of poison resistance (worn)
 f - a +0 shield of poison resistance
 m - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 s - the +1 helmet "Aminoa" (worn) {Str+4 Dex+1}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 t - a +0 scale mail of fire resistance (worn)
 w - the +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" (worn) {Str+4 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
 P - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
Magical devices
 p - a wand of digging {zapped: 3}
 H - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1}
 V - a wand of fireball {zapped: 3}
Comestibles
 L - a meat ration
 T - 4 royal jellies
 Y - 19 bread rations
Scrolls
 j - 2 scrolls of identify
 k - 3 scrolls of fog
 o - a scroll of recharging
 q - a scroll of silence
 y - a scroll of vulnerability
 D - 2 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
 i - a +3 ring of slaying (right hand)
 l - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 r - an amulet of faith (around neck)
 u - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 z - a +3 ring of dexterity
 G - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 M - a +4 ring of evasion (left hand)
Potions
 d - 2 potions of agility
 g - 3 potions of resistance
 x - 2 potions of invisibility
 B - a potion of haste
 E - 4 potions of curing
 K - 2 potions of heal wounds
 O - 2 potions of restore abilities
Miscellaneous
 I - a sack of spiders {used: 1}


   Skills:
 * Level 15.0 Fighting
 - Level 18.1 Maces & Flails
 + Level 2.4 Throwing
 + Level 11.2 Armour
 + Level 10.2 Dodging
 * Level 12.7 Shields


You have 16 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (0/5) Lair:4
 Spider (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:7       Vaults (0/5) D:14
Depths: D:15       

Annotations:
D:14 vault


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +12).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
Your flesh is cold resistant.

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Mace              |    85 |   144 |       |    59 |   268 |       ||   556
       Morningstar       |       |   102 |   312 |   558 |  1377 |       ||  2349
       Great mace        |       |       |       |   105 |       |       ||   105
       Flail             |       |       |       |       |    47 |       ||    47
       Eveningstar       |       |       |       |       |   185 |   665 ||   850
       Whip              |       |       |       |       |    27 |       ||    27
       Unarmed           |       |       |       |       |    15 |       ||    15
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |       ||     4
Throw: Stone             |       |    35 |     7 |       |       |       ||    42
       Tomahawk          |       |     4 |    30 |    20 |     5 |    15 ||    74
       Javelin           |       |       |       |    19 |     4 |    24 ||    47
Invok: Berserk           |     1 |     6 |     4 |     9 |    14 |     1 ||    35
       Trog's Hand       |     1 |     4 |     4 |     8 |    11 |     2 ||    30
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |     1 |     9 |     8 |     5 ||    23
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     2 ||     6
Evoke: Wand              |       |     1 |    10 |     4 |     2 |     1 ||    18
       Sack of spiders   |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     3 |     1 |     9 |    14 |    11 |     6 ||    44
       Potion            |       |     4 |       |     2 |     4 |       ||    10
 Stab: Paralysed         |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |     9 |     6 |    22 |    27 |    12 ||    77
       Pizza             |       |     2 |       |     1 |     1 |       ||     4
       Beef jerky        |       |     1 |       |     1 |       |       ||     2
       Fruit             |       |     2 |     2 |    14 |     5 |       ||    23
       Meat ration       |       |       |     2 |       |     3 |     2 ||     7
       Bread ration      |       |       |       |       |     4 |     1 ||     5
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3



[kroki]

Turn off maces, shields to 15 (to wear Shield without penalties), train fighting and armour

[tasonir]

Don't bother with crossbows, stick with throwing. First do what kroki said, then if you want throwing to do decent damage, train it to around 10. Good damage, train it to around 15. Really high damage is around 20, but you probably don't need it that high unless you've already trained everything else to 20+.

[rchandra]

I would also seriously question a +0 scale mail as being your best armour choice at this point. Do no plate armours exist?

Crossbows won't be worthwhile with your shield, and you have a great 1-h weapon and some shields skill so no need to give that up (though in general with berserkers I'd almost always use two-handed weapons).

[badwithusernames]

Well, I have a +4 1-handed crossbow, that's why I was asking. I have shields 15, should I bother raising to use a large shield?

I have a great mace but this antimagic evening star is working well.

Lastly, couldn't decided if I should go depths, vaults or slime. I'm not going slime until I have rMut, so vaults here I go.

[and into]

You really don't want to do Slime unless and until you have rCorr. Vaults 1 - 4 are going to be less intense than Depths. Use trog's hand to greatly reduce likelihood of being marked by Sentinels, and tag convokers with curare needles (it will interrupt their word of recall ability which teleports in a bunch of random enemies from the level into your face) before bashing them. Antimagic will also help against a lot of the threats.

As pointed out, there is better armor than +0 scale around somewhere. Maybe something with a good brand like MR or rF/rC. And don't train more M&F unless you switch to a great mace.

You should wear a regular shield (not buckler). You could go for a large shield but that's quite a large investment (eliminate all penalties at 25 skill, but this character would be totally fine wearing a large shield at ~20 skill); you could upgrade to large shield later, but I would wait until armor/dodging/fighting were higher, and perhaps evocations too if you want that.

[XuaXua]

Well, I have a +4 1-handed crossbow, that's why I was asking.

Weakest crossbow and not worth it (1) with a shield and (2) without a brand like velocity.

Plus don't start training it because you don't want Trog to gift anything for it. Throwing is better with shield-wearers.

[badwithusernames]

Ok, oh shit.

So I found an amulet of resist mutation. I started using a large shield rF at shields 16 because I seemed to be hitting things as well as with the regular shield. Maybe this isn't super smart, but I'm not taking much damage.

Hit the bottom floor of the vaults.


Killed the 24 vault guards by stair dancing. Walked off the upstair to get at a deep elf summoner to keep him from spamming and then I was surrounded. Warden locked the stairs, I was down to 60hp and I began to panic. Read a scroll of fear, read teleport, read summoning, was down to 9hp, drank my last heal wounds, teleport kicked in. Unfortunately, I didn't go very far and I'm near 2 wardens, an ettin, ironheart preserver, DE warrior and tengu reaver w/36hp. I can probably fight my way out but I worry something else will show up so thinking run.

Can a warden lock stairs if you're standing on it? Anyway, I'm taking a break to figure out what to do next. I'm thinking quaff haste, quaff invis, bros in arms (x2?), and find a narrow passage to corner myself in until I can heal. Not sure if I can find another upstair of if they're all in the center w/tons of monsters on vault:5.

Advice welcome.

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-2206-gcb37f90 (webtiles) character file.

Vorhito the Slayer (Gargoyle Berserker)            Turns: 61878, Time: 11:14:11

HP  36/148       AC 45     Str 31      XL: 21   Next: 77%
MP  27/27        EV 17     Int 12      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 2403        SH 25     Dex 24      Spells:  0 memorised, 20 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     p - +10 morningstar of Hell's Wrath {crush, Dex+4}
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     U - +0 plate armour
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     b - +1 large shield {rF+}
rPois  +         rRot     +     s - +1 helmet "Aminoa" {Str+4 Dex+1}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     w - +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" {Str+4 Int+3}
SustAb .         Warding  .     P - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
rMut   +         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  .                        J - amulet of resist mutation
MR     +++..                    Q - ring of see invisible
                                G - cursed ring of protection from cold

@: regenerating, quick, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, negative energy resistance 1,
electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC
+15
a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce
Religion
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You are on level 5 of the Vaults.
You worship Trog.
Trog is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 46 of its levels.

You have collected 5126 gold pieces.
You have spent 2723 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 antimagic eveningstar
 p - the +10 morningstar of Hell's Wrath (weapon) {crush, Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
 r - the +0 blowgun "Killer Klown's Bane" {speed, Int+4}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Shoals)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon are significantly faster.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
Missiles
 y - 16 steel javelins (quivered)
 E - 15 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 b - a +1 large shield of fire resistance (worn)
 m - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 s - the +1 helmet "Aminoa" (worn) {Str+4 Dex+1}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 w - the +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" (worn) {Str+4 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
 P - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
 U - a +0 plate armour (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 C - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1}
 S - a wand of confusion {zapped: 1}
 V - a wand of polymorph
 Z - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 z - a meat ration
 Y - 14 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - 6 scrolls of blinking
 j - 2 scrolls of brand weapon
 k - 4 scrolls of fog
 n - 2 scrolls of vulnerability
 o - 3 scrolls of recharging
 q - 3 scrolls of silence
 t - a scroll of holy word
 A - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 D - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 H - 4 scrolls of identify
 R - a scroll of magic mapping
 W - a scroll of fear
 X - 4 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 i - a +3 ring of slaying
 l - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 u - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 F - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 G - a cursed ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 J - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 L - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 M - a +4 ring of evasion
 Q - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
Potions
 d - 4 potions of agility
 g - 2 potions of resistance
 v - 3 potions of curing
 x - a potion of invisibility
 B - 3 potions of haste
 O - 2 potions of restore abilities
Miscellaneous
 I - a sack of spiders {used: 1}


   Skills:
 * Level 21.3 Fighting
 - Level 18.1 Maces & Flails
   Level 0.8 Crossbows
 + Level 7.5 Throwing
 * Level 14.7 Armour
 - Level 12.5 Dodging
 * Level 16.9 Shields
 * Level 4.9 Evocations


You have 20 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (5/5) Lair:4
 Spider (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (3/6) Lair:7       Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (0/5) D:15       

Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +15).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.


Message History

The ettin shouts in stereo!
A tengu reaver comes into view. It is wielding a glowing battleaxe.
The tengu reaver shouts!
A yaktaur comes into view.
The yaktaur shouts!
A yaktaur comes into view.
The yaktaur shouts!
A deep elf fighter comes into view. It is wielding a glowing long sword.
The deep elf fighter shouts! You hear a shout! You hear a shout!
You block the tengu reaver's attack. The tengu reaver barely misses you.
You block the tengu reaver's attack. The yaktaur moves out of view.
A yaktaur, 2 vault wardens and an ironheart preserver come into view.
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, Vorhito the Gargoyle Berserker.
Trog says: Kill them all!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Vorhito the Gargoyle Berserker.
Trog says: Kill them all!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

   .p
  ..e
 ....#
 #....
 #....#
  #....
  #....##
   #.C.@#
   #...Q#
p......cc
p.........
###########


You can see 2 vault wardens, a tengu reaver, an ironheart preserver, an ettin, 2
yaktaurs and a deep elf fighter.


[Blink]

First off, congrats on knowing when to take a break. That was really smart. Too often I splat when I get in a bad situation and don't take a breather. Nicely done.

Now I think this is a bad situation. That reaver is tough all by itself and ettins can hit for surprisingly high amounts of damage if they get a good roll. And you have the preserver guy buffing em. I would definitely haste and bro. Then your choice is fight or teleport. I can't tell where you are in relation to the stairs or the outer walls and it doesn't look like you have a good chokepoint nearby. After hasting and calling up a bro, if you can reposition so the ettin doesn't get a free shot at you, read map. If there is a good chokepoint nearby, you can try to fight from there. Otherwise, teleport.

If are going to fight that reaver, bro 2x more (so you have three) and use antimagic. Invisibility won't help (he'll see through it as will most V5 residents). Drink agility, remove curse, swap on regen and evasion (you already have Hand going, which is good). If you can take out the ettin and reaver, this mob is doable. Don't try to outrun that tengu. It'll follow and shot you to pieces with its spells.

Wardens can prevent you from ascending stairs if you are on the square and I've never seen another set of stairs out of V5 other than in the center. So the only way to get out is through that area without a warden in sight. If the positioning is right, you might be able to Blink scroll your way to the stairs and leave wardens out of your LOS. Or if you get close to the stairs (like say, 3 squares, and the warden is behind you but hasn't sealed yet), you can read Silence to shut him down but only do this if he is the only threat around. Silence takes away your Trog powers and scrolls. Use it with insane amounts of care.

Do not worry about the number of consumables you use to get out. Use them all. If you splat, it doesn't matter if you had 17 Blink scrolls left.

Good luck!

[badwithusernames]

Ok, I'm worried that's too much stuff to do in what I think are very few turns left. You think I'll have enough time to get a few bros out? I don't think I'll get rings swapped until I kill reaver. He's right next to me so I'm thinking hitting him with my morning star might be a good bet.

Here's my tentative plan. Not sure if I should switch 1 & 2.

1. bro (hope he shows up by ettin)
2. haste
3. wield antimagic evening star
4. kill reaver (hope ettin is distracted by bro)
5. get/stay a square away from ettin
6. bro
7. bro
8. put on regen ring
9. run

Or should I gamble and do a blink then haste?

[Blink]

Ah, that image helps a lot. My recommendation is:

1. Blink scroll to the lower right of the right yaktaur. From there, only the yaktaur can melee and his buddy shoot you. The other enemies shouldn't be able to attack: Ettin's too far, Reaver shouldn't be blasting you through the yaks, the warden and ironguy hopefully don't have wands or something. The risk is that there is something just to the right of that unknown spot. But standing where you are right now is bad. That ettin will reach you in one move and the reaver will get one free shot.

2. From your new position assess. If nothing dangerous is coming at you from the right side, just let the two yaks block for you. Don't kill em, Use your 2nd move to Haste up. If something dangerous is waiting, send another screenie. While you haste, the yaks get a shot, but they shouldn't be able to kill you through those defenses.

3. Probably the next thing I would do is Map. You want to see where the chokepoints are. To your south is a corridor wall. The quadrant you are in may have a good chokepoint or it may not. You need to know.

4. Now Regen ring up, if they yaks are still helping out. rC curse sucks, but it can be good if that reaver knows cold spells, and it'll cost you 1.5 moves to swap it out for some more EV. So maybe hold off. See what is coming around you.

5. Assuming you are still okay with HP, you can consider bro x2 while the yaks hold and then go after these guys. But if the right is clear, maybe bro and leg it instead. If the right is filled, then TELEPORT!

Good luck!

[badwithusernames]

Thanks Blink!

I blinked to bottom right, then the elf stepped on a zot trap and I got hit w/acid, down to 16HP, blinked again, read fog, ran down a hallway, swapped rings, only the yaks and the ettin followed me, after I got some hp back i killed them, now I'm back to max. No idea how I'm going to clear the rest out but I think I have better odds at that than what I just went through.

[Blink]

Glad to help.

V5 is really dangerous. On par with Slime 6 these days, with all those open corners, high level enemies, and no guaranteed safe place to hide. These days, if I have rCorr, rC+, and maybe rMut, I do Slime instead. But I'd rather do Crypt, Depth, and Elf before I mess with V5 or S6.

You know how to dig a zigzag right? A couple diagonals so that only one enemy can come at you at a time? You can do Elf that way. E1 and 2 are nothing. Just Hand if any tough elves show up. Those should be few and far in between. On E3, be careful of the vault. When you find it, avoid it, clear everything else. Then come back and dig a zigzag just outside, and read noise. All the elves will come booking out, you go hide, and when they peek their heads out, Hand and bash their faces in with antimagic. tt to draw more in for the slaughter. Doing this is high risk though, so don't try elf lightly. The reward is the possibility of awesome Elf loot. Like better plate.

Or you can do Crypt or Depth. Both are also dangerous. Crypt can have some really nasty enemies (skulls, ancient liches) and there is no dig to escape. But if you lure things back, go cautiously, you should be alright. C3 can have reasonably good loot.

Depth is just lots of bad guys, all pretty tough. But you can dig and hide and stuff, so in some ways, Depth is easier than Elf 3 or Crypt 3. It requires the same skills you used to survive D1-4: i.e., don't fight mobs, back away, use chokepoints, use consumables.

I'd stop training throwing btw. Your +9 AM eveningstar with +3 slaying will slaughter stuff. Instead of chucking sticks as they blast you in return with fireballs, just lure them away into a corner and kill. I would instead pump shields and armor up to 22 or 23. At 22-23, a large shield is totally usable. And having 40+ SH in .15 was really good in all my games.

Ctrl-F for "plate" and see if there is any runed or glowing or whatever laying around. If so, try them. If not, hell, I'd just dump the enchant armors you've been stashing into that plate and forget about it. Waiting for that "perfect" suit has killed more than one of my runners... Besides, missing out on a brand really isn't so bad since you seem to have most of it all covered already.

Good luck!

[badwithusernames]

Ok good stuff. All this assuming I make it out of V5.

Yeah, I haven't found even magical plate much less randart. Also only 2 HW potions and no wands.

Can't dig in Vaults right? I'll try that out in elf/depths. I"ll grab a few wands of digging & recharging.

What do you think about training Evo? and Dodging? I'll stop training throwing -- although it was useful when I was low on HP to take out ettins & giants. Probably what I got is good enough for random need.

I'll wait til I have rMut and rCorr at same time (I have both amulets) before going back to slime.

Appreciate the advice. It's tough learning this stuff first time around w/o dying.

[Blink]

It's tough learning this stuff first time around w/o dying.

It is, but you're doing a great job. Keep it up!

Now, to be clear, I am suggesting you leave V5 now. Don't try to clear it. LEAVE. Go do Crypt and some Depth. Maybe Elf. And Slime. THEN come back.

Don't be stubborn and try to clear it. If a level almost kills you in Crawl, that is a clue that you should not be there. Leave V5. Come back after you do Crypt and Depth and Elf. You will be much tougher then and can survive better on a level where you don't have many escape paths and the layout is specifically designed to kill you.

As for skills, I'd pump Shields and Armor up to 23 before I did much else. Then go Dodge to 15-18, maybe even 20. Things like Evoc are nice, but you don't help you as much as it may seem. Wands work just fine at Evoc 0 and you don't have any good rods or other items yet. Lay a good foundation, don't get distracted by shiny objects, learn positioning, and break heads.

[badwithusernames]

Ok, took your advice to leave V5, even though I had killed 2-3 shadow dragons and about 5 reavers. Went to crypt but started getting ass kicked. Also, Trog didn't like it much.

Now on Elf:3, and so far was a breeze. Right now I just got in trouble, surrounded by summoned demons. Wish I had some heal wounds. Not sure my next steps, keep running? I'm afraid one more smite might finish me. Good thing is I have double regen going and one or two bros out there.

See attachment.

  Code:

Vorhito the Slayer (Gargoyle Berserker)            Turns: 71259, Time: 13:46:42

HP  18/160       AC 44     Str 27      XL: 23   Next: 85%
MP   1/9         EV 18     Int 14      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 2198        SH 26     Dex 19      Spells:  0 memorised, 22 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     a - +9 eveningstar (antimagic)
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     j - +2 ice dragon armour of the Earth {rF- rC++ Int+2}
rNeg   + + +     rCorr    .     p - +1 large shield {rF+}
rPois  +         rRot     +     v - -4 helmet "Iqukeim" {+Blink rF+ rN+}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     w - +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" {Str+4 Int+3}
SustAb .         Warding  .     P - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  .                        s - amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR+++}
MR     +++++                    Q - ring of see invisible
                                L - ring of regeneration

@: regenerating, quick, almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments,
extremely unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, negative energy resistance 1,
electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC
+17
a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Blink
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You are on level 3 of the Elven Halls.
You worship Trog.
Trog is extremely pleased with you.
You are very hungry.

You have visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and seen 51 of its levels.

You have collected 6181 gold pieces.
You have spent 3983 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 antimagic eveningstar (weapon)
 b - the +10 morningstar of Hell's Wrath {crush, Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
 r - the +0 blowgun "Killer Klown's Bane" {speed, Int+4}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Shoals)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon are significantly faster.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
Missiles
 f - 34 javelins of returning
 z - 8 silver javelins (quivered)
 E - 15 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 j - the cursed +2 ice dragon armour of the Earth (worn) {rF- rC++ Int+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 m - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 p - a +1 large shield of fire resistance (worn)
 v - the -4 helmet "Iqukeim" (worn) {+Blink rF+ rN+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you blink.
 w - the +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" (worn) {Str+4 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
 P - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 x - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 1}
 B - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 C - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 I - 2 fruits
 Y - 12 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - 7 scrolls of blinking
 k - 3 scrolls of fog
 n - 2 scrolls of vulnerability
 o - 3 scrolls of recharging
 q - 2 scrolls of silence
 t - a scroll of holy word
 A - a scroll of enchant armour
 D - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 H - 10 scrolls of identify
 K - a scroll of torment
 N - a scroll of summoning
 R - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 W - 2 scrolls of fear
 X - 6 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 i - a +3 ring of slaying
 l - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 s - the amulet of the Four Winds (around neck) {Clar rN+ MR+++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It provides mental clarity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 u - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 F - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 G - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 J - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 L - a ring of regeneration (left hand)
 M - a +4 ring of evasion
 Q - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
Potions
 d - 3 potions of agility
 g - 2 potions of resistance
 O - 2 potions of restore abilities
 S - 3 potions of curing
 T - 2 potions of might


   Skills:
 - Level 21.5 Fighting
 - Level 18.1 Maces & Flails
   Level 0.8 Crossbows
 - Level 7.7 Throwing
 * Level 17.6 Armour
 - Level 12.5 Dodging
 - Level 21.5 Shields
 - Level 5.3 Evocations


You have 22 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (5/5) Lair:4
 Spider (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (3/6) Lair:7       Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (2/3) Vaults:2     Depths (0/5) D:15       



Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +17).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.


Message History

The deep elf sorcerer points at you and mumbles some strange words.
The bolt of negative energy misses you. The deep elf priest shoots an arrow.
The arrow hits you but does no damage.
The deep elf demonologist casts a spell.
Send 'em back where they came from!
Trog shields your ally from puny magic!
Items here: ( )) [
an arrow; a long sword; a scimitar; a ring mail
The deep elf sorcerer points at you and mumbles some strange words.
The hellfire explodes! The blast of hellfire engulfs you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The deep elf fighter gestures wildly while chanting.
The deep elf fighter blinks!
The deep elf annihilator mumbles some strange words.
The deep elf annihilator blinks!
Your troll resists.
The deep elf priest shoots an arrow. You block the arrow.
Items here: ( )) [
an arrow; a long sword; a scimitar; a ring mail
Saving game... please wait.

                           #.....
            #              #∩....
         ....#             #.....
       ......#             #.....
       ......#             #.....
      .......##            #.....
      #.......#            #.....
      #.....§.######       #.....
     ##...§....e@))###     #.....
     #.........e#.)).#     #.....
    ##.T.Te..)e2##(##..#   #.....
  ###...).4..2..##(.# ##    #....
###......ee..(.###(#.#      ###..
..((..(.(......# #(##.#      #...
..))((..⌠.§...## #(#######   #...
##(e))....(..(#  #'......#####...
)#)(........(##  #######.)..)'...


You can see a deep elf blademaster, a lorocyproca (invisible), a balrug, 2 deep
elf annihilators, a deep elf sorcerer, a deep elf demonologist, an iron devil, a
deep elf priest and a friendly troll (berserk).

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Mace              |    85 |   144 |       |    59 |   268 |       |       |       ||   556
       Morningstar       |       |   102 |   312 |   558 |  1377 |       |  1076 |   454 ||  3879
       Great mace        |       |       |       |   105 |       |       |       |       ||   105
       Flail             |       |       |       |       |    47 |       |       |       ||    47
       Eveningstar       |       |       |       |       |   185 |  1705 |   825 |   833 ||  3548
       Whip              |       |       |       |       |    27 |       |       |       ||    27
       Unarmed           |       |       |       |       |    15 |     6 |       |    10 ||    31
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |       |     6 |       ||    10
       Hand crossbow     |       |       |       |       |       |     5 |       |       ||     5
Throw: Stone             |       |    35 |     7 |       |       |       |       |       ||    42
       Tomahawk          |       |     4 |    30 |    20 |     5 |    24 |       |       ||    83
       Javelin           |       |       |       |    19 |     4 |   128 |   110 |    94 ||   355
Invok: Berserk           |     1 |     6 |     4 |     9 |    14 |     1 |       |     1 ||    36
       Trog's Hand       |     1 |     4 |     4 |     8 |    11 |     5 |    26 |    30 ||    89
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |     1 |     9 |     8 |     9 |     7 |     7 ||    41
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     4 |     2 |       ||    10
 Abil: Fly               |       |       |       |       |       |     7 |       |     1 ||     8
       Stop Flying       |       |       |       |       |       |     7 |       |     1 ||     8
       Evoke Blink       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
Evoke: Wand              |       |     1 |    10 |     4 |     2 |     4 |     2 |     1 ||    24
       Sack of spiders   |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     3 |     1 |     9 |    14 |    11 |    15 |    13 |     6 ||    72
       Potion            |       |     4 |       |     2 |     4 |     4 |     8 |     2 ||    24
 Stab: Paralysed         |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |     1 |       |       |     3 |       |       ||     4
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |     9 |     6 |    22 |    27 |    19 |    13 |    21 ||   118
       Pizza             |       |     2 |       |     1 |     1 |       |     1 |     1 ||     6
       Beef jerky        |       |     1 |       |     1 |       |       |     1 |       ||     3
       Fruit             |       |     2 |     2 |    14 |     5 |     1 |     1 |     1 ||    26
       Meat ration       |       |       |     2 |       |     3 |     6 |     2 |     1 ||    14
       Bread ration      |       |       |       |       |     4 |     1 |     1 |     4 ||    10
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |     8 |     1 ||    12



[Octopode-monk-of-XOM]

imo scroll of blinking south on the arrows, then scroll of fog if no one can shoot u directly. the balrug can use hellfire too:P then run to stairs (u have boots of running).. heal up when safe

this is the main vault of elf 3, if u wanna clear that (good items, but i think much caster stuff?) pull the enemies one by one, the casters can banish and use lehudybs crystal spear.. which can take like half ur HP with one shot if u dont block/evade it

edit : my brain, always forget so much u will need luck in this situation.. if the elf blinks u could be done. use scroll of fog only if there are 2-3 tiles between u and the enemy, and especially if the balrug or priest show up after u escape down the tunnel.

[badwithusernames]

Can't control blink cause -ctele on elf3.

The blademaster can keep up with my boots, but I might be able to finish him with a hit or 2. MR+++++ should prevent banish. I think I'm better off running and healing from regen while taking hits. Wish I had a hw or haste.

Considering reading scroll of summoning, hoping a friendly is 1sq bottom right from me so I can swap w/it. Also considering silence.

[Blink]

Dude, you didn't dig a zigzag. And you went INTO the vault. To handle E3, you need to dig two diagonals that allow only 1 free space in LOS. You do this with disintegration, not digging wands. Like this:

Elf Posture.png (238.43 KiB) Viewed 6689 times

Then you read noise and make them come to you. Going into vaults is how the devs kill you. They love that.

You're at 18 hp and out of Haste? Shit. Smite and Hellfire can both kill you. Your best bet is to go lower right one move. The sword guy should get in the way of the annhilator so he doesn't shoot. Bro. Fog. RUN. The fog should break LOS and bro will hopefully block. If you can get a bit of distance, you can then kill the sword guy and then leg it.

[badwithusernames]

How about read scroll of summoning instead of bro so I don't starve?

[badwithusernames]

I killed about 20 elves so I thought I was done. Then 20 more came around the corner while I was checking out the gear on the ground.

[badwithusernames]

Made it out! moved 1 lower right, was a gap, I bro'd, ogre got between annihilator and blademaster, but a balrug got through too, ran down hall, blademaster hitting but not doing damage, read fog, after about 4 or 5 squares, read summoning, got 2 DE high priests, ran more, ate something cause starving, got to an escape hatch in ceiling, went up, healed. bam. searched my loot for disintegration and don't have any.

[Blink]

Well, congrats on making it out! Nicely done!!

Okay, you can still try to dig a zigzag using dig. It will mean that there is space behind you for summoners to bring up stuff, but that is better than fighting in the open.

Generally there are 2 master archers, 2 sword masters, and like 12-15 annihilators, demonologists, sorcerers, death guys, and high priests. So you're getting close. Go back slowly. Use tt alot, around corners. And get the rest of them. The most dangerous one of those guys left are the demonologist and the sorcerer. The annhilators can hit for big damage, but your AC and SH work against their attacks. AC and SH don't help much against tormentors and fiends. Get the summoners with your antimagic in their face.

Let us know if the loot was worth it!

[badwithusernames]

Yeah, the master archers were able to hit me, not for much damage, but 2 of them on me from far away can grind me down. I try to get to the demonologists fast but they summon guys between us.

I didn't realize Elves were only 3 levels deep!! Didn't realize I was on bottom level, otherwise I would have been more careful.

[badwithusernames]

Ok, cleared elf and vault, thought it is a good idea to clear crypt and hope to upgrade weapon or armour.

Not sure what to do here, do the gates open at some point?

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-2241-gf11e773 (webtiles) character file.

Vorhito the Slayer (Gargoyle Berserker)            Turns: 78831, Time: 15:47:02

HP 166/166       AC 55     Str 27      XL: 24   Next: 60%
MP   9/9         EV 10     Int 13      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 2300        SH 26     Dex 20      Spells:  0 memorised, 23 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis +     a - +9 eveningstar (antimagic)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     y - +5 gold dragon armour
rNeg   + + +     rCorr    .     p - +1 large shield {rF+}
rPois  +         rRot     +     v - -4 helmet "Iqukeim" {+Blink rF+ rN+}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     w - +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" {Str+4 Int+3}
SustAb .         Warding  .     P - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     m - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  .                        s - amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR+++}
MR     +++++                    Q - ring of see invisible
                                i - +3 ring of slaying

@: quick, almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, magic resistance 1, negative energy
resistance 1, electricity resistance, wild magic 1, unbreathing, evolution 1,
petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC +17
a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Blink
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer


You are on level 3 of the Crypt.
You worship Trog.
Trog is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and seen 52 of its levels.

You have collected 6715 gold pieces.
You have spent 4415 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 antimagic eveningstar (weapon)
Missiles
 f - 33 javelins of returning
 z - 3 silver javelins (quivered)
Armour
 b - a +2 helmet
 m - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 p - a +1 large shield of fire resistance (worn)
 v - the -4 helmet "Iqukeim" (worn) {+Blink rF+ rN+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you blink.
 w - the +2 cloak "Vevvoyz" (worn) {Str+4 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
 y - a +5 gold dragon armour (worn)
 P - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
Magical devices
 x - a wand of teleportation (7)
 B - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 C - a wand of fireball (4)
Comestibles
 N - 2 meat rations
 Y - 25 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - 6 scrolls of blinking
 h - a scroll of summoning
 k - 4 scrolls of fog
 n - 4 scrolls of noise
 o - 6 scrolls of recharging
 q - 3 scrolls of silence
 r - 2 scrolls of immolation
 t - 2 scrolls of holy word
 D - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 H - 6 scrolls of identify
 K - 2 scrolls of torment
 R - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 X - 5 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 i - a +3 ring of slaying (left hand)
 l - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 s - the amulet of the Four Winds (around neck) {Clar rN+ MR+++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It provides mental clarity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 u - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 F - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 G - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 J - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 L - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 Q - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
Potions
 d - 3 potions of agility
 g - 2 potions of resistance
 j - a potion of cure mutation
 A - 2 potions of porridge
 E - a potion of restore abilities
 S - 2 potions of curing
Miscellaneous
 I - a fan of gales
 T - a disc of storms


   Skills:
 + Level 21.5 Fighting
 - Level 18.3 Maces & Flails
   Level 0.8 Crossbows
 - Level 7.7 Throwing
 + Level 20.3 Armour
 * Level 12.5 Dodging
 + Level 21.5 Shields
 + Level 5.3 Evocations


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +17).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
You are resistant to hostile enchantments.
Your spells are a little harder to cast, but a little more powerful.
You evolve.



[Blink]

Yes, that is a trap. Some evil vault designer wants to kill you. If you go in, and take like 3 steps, the liches are freed and you are stuck in the middle, in open sight, with two liches flanking you. EVIL.

So, stay there, and see if either is a summoner. Hit "s" a few times. If it summons, back off and wait for the summons to time out. Now, use dig to free one of them (ideally, the non summoner first), and run for a choke point. tt to make sure he follows. Then AM mace to the face. Kill. Then come back and dig out the second.

The key to defeating vaults is not to play on the vault's turf. You can do this.

Oh, and you have no better helmet options? You don't really need rN+++ or rF+++. Blink is nice, but you can live without it. A plain +2 helmet will kick your AC to 61...

[badwithusernames]

Bummer, can't dig. Doesn't look like either are summoners.

[Blink]

Huh. Well, then, you can always just walk towards one, when it releases, read Silence and draw it back towards it's mate. Then bash both to pieces with your big AM mace.

[badwithusernames]

Killed em. Gates didn't open until I got to top middle of vault. I blinked to entrance, read fog, ran to a 1sq hallway, then beat them with my morningstar. Luckily no one else showed up and they didn't summon. Got me down to about 50% hp though.

Cleared vault, didn't find anything good. Pearl dragon armour but that doesn't top my gold dragon armor since I don't need rN. Some randart rings with rN, might keep the one with +4 str to help with the gold dragon armour.

Was hopping to find some gear with rCorr.

Not sure what to do next. ##crawl folks last night told me to go for win. I kinda feel like killing TRJ with torment since I'm immune. Not sure I'll bother with tomb.

[nilsbloodaxe]

You don't need rPois or the extra rF from the GDA though. Also the base AC of PDA is only 2 lower than that of GDA, but the encumbrance rating is much less. Even with the +5 added AC from enchanting the GDA, your defenses might just be better with the PDA since your EV will be much better than it is now, particularly since you have trained dodging to 12.5 (which is not doing much for you in the GDA).

[Blink]

Have you already cleared Depth and Zot 1-4? I would go do that first.

Slime without rCorr is really, really dangerous. That -AC stacks up insanely fast and suddenly you're taking 60 dmg a pop. From creatures that move much faster than you. Three hits and you're gone. Torment won't help the situation since it will just spawn a crapload of high level slimes out of the RJ. Then the RJ will run away and the mob of slimes will be all over you.

If you haven't found rCorr, then just go win. Seriously. Z5 is enough of a challenge!

[badwithusernames]

I got the orb!

I stupidly decided to try the tomb, ran into the pack of sphinx who team smiting me. Got down to 9hp and luckily got away. That was the 3rd time this char was in the single digits hp. But I won!

Thanks everyone! Think I'll try a DD next.