CIP: Hill Orc Gladiator

[AzuredreamsXT]

I've learned enough about the game to have a decent understanding/handle on it, so I usually don't bring my character dumps to the forums anymore, but now and then I like to get new tips, feedback etc from the many players far, far better than I am around here.

Here's my dump

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13.1 (tiles) character file.

Gromm the Fencer (Hill Orc Gladiator)              Turns: 27286, Time: 02:40:27

HP 121/121       AC 26     Str 19      XL: 14   Next: 11%
MP  22/22        EV  6     Int  8      God: Beogh [******]
Gold 788         SH  0     Dex 15      Spells:  0 memorised, 13 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   O - +4 great sword (holy)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   J - +0 orc plate armour
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   c - +0 orc helmet
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   o - +2 dwarf cloak {rPois}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : +   D - +0 pair of gauntlets
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   M - +0 pair of boots
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   C - amulet of guardian spirit
Saprovore : + . .                    n - +0,+7 ring of slaying
                                     I - ring of protection from magic

@: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: walk on water, saprovore 1
a: Smiting, Recall Orcish Followers, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Beogh.
Beogh is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 19 of its levels.

You have collected 976 gold pieces.
You have spent 208 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 B - a +2,+0 scimitar of flaming
 O - a +4,+4 great sword of holy wrath (weapon)
Missiles
 w - 3 throwing nets (quivered)
 E - 8 javelins of returning
Armour
 c - a +0 orcish helmet (worn)
 o - a +2 dwarven cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 D - a +0 pair of gauntlets (worn)
 F - the +0 shield of Intercession {Acc+4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your accuracy (+4).
   It enhances your eyesight.
 J - a +0 orcish plate armour (worn)
 M - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
 r - a wand of polymorph {zapped: 1}
 A - a wand of cold {zapped: 1}
 H - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 2}
 Q - a wand of fire {zapped: 2}
 S - a wand of disintegration (11)
Comestibles
 g - 2 bread rations
 t - a beef jerky
Scrolls
 b - a scroll of magic mapping
 e - a scroll of fear
 l - a scroll of recharging
 u - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 K - a scroll of remove curse
Jewellery
 n - a +0,+7 ring of slaying (right hand)
 q - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 z - an uncursed ring of fire
 C - an amulet of guardian spirit (around neck)
 I - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 L - a ring of ice
Potions
 d - 3 potions of heal wounds
 h - 5 potions of curing
 j - a potion of speed
 p - a potion of flight
 v - a potion of agility
 x - a potion of invisibility
 Z - a potion of might
Miscellaneous
 W - a box of beasts


   Skills:
 - Level 12.4 Fighting
   Level 3.9 Short Blades
 - Level 16.0 Long Blades
 - Level 6.0 Throwing
 - Level 10.8 Armour
 - Level 7.5 Dodging
 + Level 3.3 Stealth
   Level 1.2 Shields
 - Level 5.8 Invocations


You have 13 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (17/27)            Temple (0/1) D:7             Orc (0/4) D:10
   Lair (2/8) D:9         
Vaults: D:15-20     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Fedhas
Sif Muna
Jiyva

Shops:
D:7 /   D:9 (   D:16 }(??[

Portals:
Trove: D:15 (give 6 scrolls of blinking)

Annotations:
D:2 Terence
D:3 Prince Ribbit
Lair:2 exclusion: oklob plant


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can walk on water.
You can tolerate rotten meat.


Message History

F - the +0 shield of Intercession {Acc+4 SInv}
You swap places.
You swap places.
You see here a jackal corpse.
You start butchering the jackal corpse with your great sword.
You continue butchering the corpse.
You finish chopping the jackal corpse into pieces.
a - a chunk of jackal flesh
This raw flesh tastes unpleasant.
You continue eating.
Unknown command.
Your orc knight hits the plant with an orcish great mace!
You swap places.
Saving game... please wait.
Level annotation: exclusion: oklob plant
Welcome back, Gromm the Hill Orc Gladiator.
Beogh says: Drown the unbelievers in a sea of blood!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Char dumped to 'C:/Users/Owen/AppData/Roaming/crawl/morgue/Gromm.txt'.
Saving game... please wait.

#  #..#     #..#    #f..## ##
   #..#   ###..#    ##..## #o
   #..#####.Po.#     #...# ##
   #.........o.#     #...# ##
  ##...>..)....#    ##..## #.
  #...f####.oo.#    #....# ##
  ##..##  ###.o#    ##...###f
  #...#     #..#    #....##..
  #P..#     #o.#    #)..#####
  ##..#    ##..#    ##..#  #.
   #..#    #f.@#     #..#  ##
   ####    ###%#    #P.##   #
             ###    ####    #


You can see the friendly Boldo the orc warlord (wandering), 2 friendly orc
knights, the friendly Morguth the orc knight (wandering), the friendly Garbold
the orc warrior (wandering) and the friendly Norbak the orc warrior (wandering).

Vanquished Creatures
  Fannar (D:14)
  The ghost of Gromm the Cruncher, a powerful HOGl of Beogh (D:10)
  Erica (D:12)
  Erolcha (D:12)
  5 hill giants
  A wolf spider (D:15)
  A griffon (D:17)
  3 cyclopes
  A hydra zombie (D:13)
  2 komodo dragons
  The ghost of Gromm the Cutter, an average HOGl (D:4)
  The ghost of Gromm the Cutter, an average HOGl (D:3)
  4 trolls
  9 slime creatures
  A grizzly bear (shapeshifter) (D:17)
  A redback (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  A trapdoor spider (D:15)
  13 ugly things
  2 wyverns
  A yak (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  18 yaks
  2 manticores
  A wraith (D:16)
  2 hippogriffs
  2 hell hounds (D:17)
  A hill giant skeleton (D:15)
  2 vampire mosquitoes (D:16)
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  A mottled dragon (D:15)
  A swamp drake (D:11)
  A sky beast (D:8)
  2 black bears
  3 ice beasts
  2 phantoms
  A giant goldfish (D:11)
  2 orc warriors
  6 ogres
  9 centaurs
  2 crocodiles
  5 water moccasins
  9 giant frogs
  A cyclops zombie (D:13)
  A cyclops skeleton (D:11)
  A yak zombie (D:13)
  An eye of draining (D:11)
  2 jellyfish (D:11)
  A jelly (D:5)
  A centaur zombie (D:6)
  6 crimson imps
  15 killer bees
  5 wights
  A water moccasin zombie (D:6)
  6 orc wizards
  3 gnoll shamans
  7 hounds
  6 orc priests
  3 iguanas
  A scorpion (D:12)
  6 worker ants
  Ijyb (D:5)
  A big kobold zombie (D:9)
  An ogre skeleton (D:4)
  A big kobold simulacrum (D:15)
  12 gnolls
  3 green rats (Lair:1)
  2 giant centipedes
  A steam dragon skeleton (D:10)
  11 adders
  A giant mite (D:1)
  A goliath beetle zombie (D:11)
  3 worms
  An adder skeleton (D:8)
  An adder zombie (D:7)
  7 giant eyeballs
  5 giant geckos
  5 oozes
  28 orcs
  A ball python (D:1)
  19 bats
  9 giant cockroaches
  11 goblins
  13 hobgoblins
  12 jackals
  24 kobolds
  6 giant newts
  2 goblin skeletons
  An illusory rakshasa (D:16)
  2 kobold zombies
  7 quokkas
  11 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:6)
395 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Rupert (D:17)
  Agnes (D:17)
  Azrael (D:17)
  A dragon (D:14)
  Harold (D:11)
  2 hydras
  Nessos (D:14)
  A rakshasa (D:16)
  An ogre mage (D:16)
  3 unseen horrors
  3 centaur warriors
  A giant amoeba (D:17)
  3 harpies (D:17)
  2 hill giants
  Joseph (Lair:1)
  2 cyclopes
  2 griffons
  2 spiny frogs
  A troll (D:12)
  3 two-headed ogres
  2 komodo dragons
  6 slime creatures
  A griffon zombie (D:12)
  2 trapdoor spiders
  A basilisk (D:16)
  2 wraiths
  18 yaks
  2 vampire mosquitoes (D:16)
  A fire elemental (D:17)
  A wyvern (D:15)
  A hill giant skeleton (D:14)
  15 ugly things
  A mottled dragon (D:12)
  2 porcupines (Lair:2)
  3 hell hounds (D:17)
  3 orc warriors
  2 ice beasts (D:14)
  A sky beast (D:12)
  5 ogres
  2 black bears (D:10)
  2 centaurs (D:14)
  12 killer bees
  A phantom (D:13)
  A crocodile (Lair:1)
  2 giant slugs
  4 big kobolds
  3 giant frogs
  A giant slug zombie (D:13)
  Blork the orc (D:9)
  2 agate snails (Lair:1)
  A yaktaur skeleton (D:17)
  3 water moccasins
  A cyclops skeleton (D:16)
  2 electric eels (D:11)
  A wight (D:13)
  A troll skeleton (D:13)
  4 goliath beetles
  2 crimson imps
  A hound (D:11)
  An orc priest (D:11)
  A jelly (D:15)
  A big fish (D:11)
  A scorpion (D:11)
  3 iguanas
  2 worker ants
  4 orc wizards
  3 sheep (D:15)
  7 green rats (Lair:1)
  4 adders
  A giant centipede (D:11)
  An inept feature mimic (D:11)
  A giant mite (Lair:1)
  2 worms
  A giant eyeball (D:11)
  7 orcs
  A hobgoblin (D:10)
  11 jackals
  2 quokkas (Lair:2)
  A bat (Lair:1)
  3 illusory rakshasas (D:16)
  12 kobolds
  A rat (Lair:2)
  A fungus (Lair:2)
221 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An orc knight (D:17)
  2 orc warriors
  An ugly thing (D:17)
  A centaur (D:7)
  3 orc wizards
  2 orc priests
  20 orcs
30 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 646 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Gromm, the Hill Orc Gladiator, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 0/0
   111 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 18/25 MP: 1/1
   309 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 16/30 MP: 2/2
   469 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
   914 | D:2      | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
  1116 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 38/38 MP: 3/3
  1585 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  2141 | D:3      | Noticed Gromm's ghost (average HOGl)
  2244 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
  2331 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 31/44 MP: 4/4
  2756 | D:3      | Killed Gromm's ghost
  2756 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
  2756 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 9/50 MP: 5/5
  3568 | D:4      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4181 | D:4      | Noticed Gromm's ghost (average HOGl)
  4309 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 27/57 MP: 6/6
  4730 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Long Blades
  4962 | D:4      | Killed Gromm's ghost
  4962 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Long Blades
  4962 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  5190 | D:4      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  5463 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5707 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 45/63 MP: 7/7
  6104 | D:5      | Noticed Ijyb
  6111 | D:5      | Became a worshipper of Beogh the Brigand
  6120 | D:5      | Killed Ijyb
  6120 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Long Blades
  7665 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
  7919 | D:6      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  8045 | D:6      | Acquired Beogh's first power
  8397 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 60/69 MP: 8/8
  8500 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  9003 | D:7      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  9013 | D:7      | Found Isiunaus' Magical Wand Boutique.
  9050 | D:7      | Got a +8,+11 polished spear {drain}
  9060 | D:7      | Identified the +8,+11 spear of Ykluz {drain, rElec} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
  9060 | D:7      | Identified the +8,+11 spear of Ykluz {drain, rElec} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
  9140 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  9481 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  9534 | D:7      | Acquired Beogh's second power
  9727 | D:7      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  9738 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  9742 | D:7      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 10559 | D:8      | Acquired Beogh's third power
 10635 | D:8      | Noticed a wandering mushroom
 10639 | D:8      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 10639 | D:8      | Noticed a wandering mushroom
 10640 | D:8      | Noticed a wandering mushroom
 10643 | D:8      | Noticed a wandering mushroom
 10678 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
 10681 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 10755 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 52/77 MP: 9/9
 11641 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Long Blades
 12377 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12461 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12614 | D:9      | Noticed Blork the orc
 12620 | D:9      | Killed Blork the orc
 12668 | D:9      | Was placed under penance by Beogh
 12845 | D:9      | Found Bloa's Weapon Shop.
 12867 | D:9      | Bought a +0,+0 great sword for 72 gold pieces
 13036 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13036 | D:10     | Noticed Gromm's ghost (powerful HOGl)
 13448 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 13484 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Long Blades
 13530 | D:10     | Killed Gromm's ghost
 13901 | D:10     | Was forgiven by Beogh
 14204 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 82/82 MP: 10/10
 14400 | D:11     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 14675 | D:11     | Noticed Harold
 14683 | D:11     | Killed Harold
 14683 | D:11     | Reached skill level 13 in Long Blades
 14715 | D:11     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 14724 | D:11     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 14865 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 14874 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 14874 | D:11     | Acquired Beogh's fourth power
 15133 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 15245 | D:11     | the staircase to the Orcish Mines was a mimic.
 15600 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 15607 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 15685 | D:11     | Reached skill level 14 in Long Blades
 16214 | D:12     | Noticed Erolcha
 16241 | D:12     | Killed Erolcha
 16510 | D:12     | Noticed Erica
 16709 | D:12     | Noticed a hill giant
 16715 | D:12     | Killed a hill giant
 17240 | D:12     | Killed Erica
 17299 | D:12     | Reached skill level 15 in Long Blades
 17299 | D:12     | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 17299 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 57/89 MP: 9/11
 18325 | D:13     | Gained Boldo as an ally
 18460 | D:13     | Acquired Beogh's fifth power
 18630 | D:13     | Got an emerald-encrusted ring mail
 18648 | D:13     | Identified the +5 ring mail "Wifriaso" {Str+2 Dex-4 Int-4} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 18734 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
 18847 | D:14     | Entered Level 14 of the Dungeon
 19079 | D:14     | Paralysed by you for 6 turns
 19114 | D:14     | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 19115 | D:14     | Got a distressingly furry buckler
 19120 | D:14     | Identified the -3 buckler of Piskeh {Dex+3 Stlth+} (You acquired it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 19423 | D:14     | Noticed a dragon
 19442 | D:14     | Killed a dragon
 19484 | D:14     | Noticed Nessos
 19503 | D:14     | Killed Nessos
 19503 | D:14     | Reached skill level 16 in Long Blades
 19645 | D:14     | Noticed Fannar
 19661 | D:14     | Killed Fannar
 19689 | D:14     | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 20310 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 21105 | D:15     | Reached XP level 13. HP: 94/105 MP: 9/12
 21377 | D:15     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 21762 | D:16     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 22086 | D:16     | Found Qoagrusi's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 22129 | D:16     | Bought a scroll of identify for 34 gold pieces
 22129 | D:16     | Bought a scroll of identify for 34 gold pieces
 22129 | D:16     | Bought a scroll of identify for 34 gold pieces
 22139 | D:16     | Bought a scroll of identify for 34 gold pieces
 22196 | D:16     | Found Cleuthes' Weapon Emporium.
 22252 | D:16     | Found Lyoguwk's Gadget Shoppe.
 22783 | D:16     | Got a transparent shield
 22791 | D:16     | Identified the +0 shield of Intercession {Acc+4 SInv} (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
 22834 | D:16     | Found Dege's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 23094 | D:16     | Found Guemnuse's Armour Boutique.
 23297 | D:17     | Noticed Agnes
 23308 | D:17     | Killed Agnes
 23710 | D:17     | Gained Morguth as an ally
 23712 | D:17     | Noticed Azrael
 23718 | D:17     | Killed Azrael
 24082 | D:17     | Gained mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. [potion of mutation]
 24082 | D:17     | Gained mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [potion of mutation]
 24083 | D:17     | Lost mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [potion of cure mutation]
 24083 | D:17     | Lost mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. [potion of cure mutation]
 24168 | D:17     | Noticed Rupert
 24177 | D:17     | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 24189 | D:17     | Killed Rupert
 24605 | D:17     | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
 24787 | D:17     | Gained Garbold as an ally
 24791 | D:17     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 24912 | D:17     | Reached XP level 14. HP: 104/121 MP: 22/22
 24966 | D:17     | Got a pitted sabre
 24967 | D:17     | Identified the sabre of Punishment {speed, Str-3} (You found it on level 17 of the Dungeon)
 25616 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
 25644 | Lair:1   | Noticed Joseph
 25653 | Lair:1   | Killed Joseph
 25916 | Lair:1   | Gained Norbak as an ally


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |   138 |    41 |       |       |       ||   179
       Falchion          |       |   198 |   435 |       |       ||   633
       Scimitar          |       |       |   257 |   199 |     1 ||   457
       Great sword       |       |       |       |   542 |   348 ||   890
Throw: Throwing net      |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |       ||     4
       Spear             |       |       |     2 |     6 |       ||     8
       Javelin           |       |       |       |    10 |       ||    10
Invok: Convert to Beogh  |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Recall Orcish Fol |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |     6 |     8 |    12 |     7 ||    33
  Use: Potion            |       |     1 |     1 |     3 |     3 ||     8
       Scroll            |       |       |    18 |    10 |    16 ||    44
 Stab: Distracted        |       |       |       |    13 |     6 ||    19
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I'm new to Hill Orcs and Beogh, any good tips for utilizing orcish hordes to their fullest?

Any glaring issues with my character?

Is training long swords past 16 or 18 worth it? That's when min delay hits for great swords no?

Any and all replies welcome, thanks in advance.

Cheers

[Sandman25]

Don't train Dodging/Stealth with this character (except maybe much later).
Why did you visit D17 before finishing Lair?

[and into]

Min delay is at 18 skill for great sword. Speaking of which, keep an eye out for a great sword with a brand that will be useful against more of the enemies you'll be fighting at this stage of the game. Pretty much any brand aside from poison and pain (until you have necromancy) would be better, you can keep the holy wrath on swap of course.

Don't train stealth on this guy. More armor would not go amiss as you are getting slightly more than one extra AC for every 2 levels of armor skill. You should enchant up your peripheral armor pieces (helmet, cloak, etc.) while keeping an eye out for a plate armor with a resistance on it. Try to push your AC at least into the 30s soon.

You shouldn't be carrying around a scroll of recharging unless you are in Pan or a Ziggurat or something.

Unfortunately, unless you get incredibly lucky with scroll drops, 6 scrolls of blinking is probably a price you don't want to pay for that Trove.

Anyway, your character is looking good. Keep at it and good luck!

[Sandman25]

You should enchant up your peripheral armor pieces (helmet, cloak, etc.) while keeping an eye out for a plate armor with a resistance on it.

It depends IMHO. If character does not feel weak, I prefer to save my enchant armour scrolls for body armour or at least for branded peripheral armor. As Amnesiac usually suggests, it can be a good idea to check peripheral armor pieces, some of them can be enchanted up to +2.

[and into]

You should enchant up your peripheral armor pieces (helmet, cloak, etc.) while keeping an eye out for a plate armor with a resistance on it.

It depends IMHO. If character does not feel weak, I prefer to save my enchant armour scrolls for body armour or at least for branded peripheral armor. As Amnesiac usually suggests, it can be a good idea to check peripheral armor pieces, some of them can be enchanted up to +2.

Yes, if you have ?remove curse, check peripheral armor pieces that you do not already have at +2.

I generally don't, but I can at least see the argument for keeping exactly one (1) ?enchant armor stashed on the off chance that you get a good hide to enchant. But stashing any more than that just means there are AC you are losing out on, and more AC is always good, especially when it comes with 0 experience cost and 0 additional encumbrance. I grant that I might not use enchant armor if I didn't have any enchantable peripheral slots and was still in my +0 starting robe or leathers, but that's because +2 robes and +2/+3 leathers are very common (unlike branded helmets and boots), even in the early game. But even then I might, it would depend.

[Sandman25]

I don't check peripheral armor pieces either (nothing surprising from a guy who is too lazy to swap rC+ ring vs Ice Dragon in Lair sometimes), this is why I wrote " As Amnesiac usually suggests".

[Amnesiac]

Huh. I often play castabers in robes, so I'm not lazy for bumpin my AC from 8 to 16, because it's hilariously huge for just vanilla garbage(you would think). I think enchantment on vanilla stuff is the real case of "spoilery" and "unintuitive" so often mentioned on this forum.

[and into]

Huh. I often play castabers in robes, so I'm not lazy for bumpin my AC from 8 to 16, because it's hilariously huge for just vanilla garbage(you would think). I think enchantment on vanilla stuff is the real case of "spoilery" and "unintuitive" so often mentioned on this forum.

Perhaps unintuitive, but not "spoilery," because people will learn fairly quickly through experience. The analogy with "vanilla" weapons helps—in Crawl weapons can vary in quality without being mysteriously glowing or rune-covered.

All the bad chaos weapon effects are, for instance, an actual case of (highly problematic) spoilery info that is also unintuitive.

(It makes sense chaos can do weird and unexpected stuff, but having it be able to shaft you or move stairs is in a completely different category of weird, and sufficiently rare that you can use those weapons a lot without realizing the risk you are putting your character in—of course it is fine if you want to take that risk, it is your decision, but it is bad that the stakes are not clear.)

[Amnesiac]

Well, whatever, spoilery or not, you won't think that it's important(even if you notice that some stuff is +1-2 for some reason. I didn't pay attention to it during the first couple of years, I think) unless you are explicitly told, that "you can have 2+2+2+2+(body armour enchantment) more AC, did you know that? THAT'S HUGE, DO THAT"