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xxx
Posted:
Saturday, 28th December 2013, 23:16
by dck
Note that the above is stupid and only true in very very few corner cases.
Mi already have superb aptitudes to reach the practical peak of offense and defense very early and picking up spells (haste is a spell) is something to consider (and not necessarily when you're completely stablished with massive offense and defense).
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:04
by Sandman25
Note the above is stupid and only true in very few corner cases.
By the time you consider training Haste your Armour/Dodging/Fighting should be at least 15 and the biggest 2h weapon you could find should be at min delay.
Examples of Mi with 3 runes:
- Code:
+ Level 26.7 Fighting
- Level 14.0 Staves
O Level 27 Crossbows
- Level 2.0 Throwing
- Level 17.4 Armour
- Level 21.0 Dodging
- Level 4.0 Stealth
- Level 5.3 Evocations
or
- Code:
O Level 27 Fighting
- Level 16.9 Maces & Flails
- Level 16.0 Staves
- Level 3.1 Throwing
- Level 17.0 Armour
- Level 22.2 Dodging
+ Level 12.4 Stealth
- Level 5.2 Spellcasting
- Level 10.0 Necromancy
- Level 7.0 Translocations
- Level 10.3 Evocations
dck, please let me know if you insist it was stupid training.
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:17
by Arrhythmia
For the experience it takes to go from 22 -> 27 crossbows, you could easily have gone from 0 -> 18 charms.
So, yeah, a little stupid.
e: Being presented with the fact that he was a trogolodyte with /hasting, I would like to officially and formally tell Sandman to fuck off for lying by omission.
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:21
by sage
Sandman25 wrote:Note the above is stupid and only true in very few corner cases.
By the time you consider training Haste your Armour/Dodging/Fighting should be at least 15 and the biggest 2h weapon you could find should be at min delay.
Examples of Mi with 3 runes:
- Code:
+ Level 26.7 Fighting
- Level 14.0 Staves
O Level 27 Crossbows
- Level 2.0 Throwing
- Level 17.4 Armour
- Level 21.0 Dodging
- Level 4.0 Stealth
- Level 5.3 Evocations
or
- Code:
O Level 27 Fighting
- Level 16.9 Maces & Flails
- Level 16.0 Staves
- Level 3.1 Throwing
- Level 17.0 Armour
- Level 22.2 Dodging
+ Level 12.4 Stealth
- Level 5.2 Spellcasting
- Level 10.0 Necromancy
- Level 7.0 Translocations
- Level 10.3 Evocations
dck, please let me know if you insist it was stupid training.
I'd say it is decent training for a Troglodyte and a dude with /haste.
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:32
by Sandman25
1-1 so far. dck?
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:38
by Sandman25
Arrhythmia wrote:For the experience it takes to go from 22 -> 27 crossbows, you could easily have gone from 0 -> 18 charms.
Yes, it looks so. Mi have -4 aptitude in Charms and +2 in Crossbows. So 22->27 Crossbows takes about 400.000 points, 0-18 Charms takes 410.090 points
- Code:
// level xp delta delta2
// ===== ======= ===== ======
// 1 0 0 0
// 2 10 10 10
// 3 30 20 10
// 4 70 40 20
// 5 140 70 30
// 6 270 130 60
// 7 520 250 120
// 8 1010 490 240
// 9 1980 970 480
// 10 3910 1930 960
// 11 7760 3850 1920
// 12 15450 7690 3840
// 13 26895 11445 3755
// 14 45585 18690 7245
// 15 72745 27160 8470
// 16 108375 35630 8470
// 17 152475 44100 8470
// 18 205045 52570 8470
// 19 266085 61040 8470
// 20 335595 69510 8470
// 21 413575 77980 8470
// 22 500025 86450 8470
// 23 594945 94920 8470
// 24 698335 103390 8470
// 25 810195 111860 8470
// 26 930525 120330 8470
// 27 1059325 128800 8470
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:50
by dck
Enough of this bullshit sandman, stop trying to derail every god damn thread you touch into an argument about how everyone is wrong and you are right.
What you posted is a Troglodyte with /haste. The advice you posted earlier was stupid.
Yes, I would assume such a character doesn't want to have much to do with charms. It also has absolutely nothing to do the the OP's MiFi^Yred, is nothing but malicious vile spewed with no other purpose than instigating hostily and adds absolutely nothing to help the OP, who hopefully can figure out how to train a berserker by himself.
Enough is enough.
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 00:55
by Sandman25
dck wrote:Enough of this bullshit sandman, stop trying to derail every god damn thread you touch into an argument about how everyone is wrong and you are right.
What you posted is a Troglodyte with /haste. The advice you posted earlier was stupid.
Yes, I would assume such a character doesn't want to have much to do with charms. It also has absolutely nothing to do the the OP's MiFi^Yred, is nothing but malicious vile spewed with no other purpose than instigating hostily and adds absolutely nothing to help the OP, who hopefully can figure out how to train a berserker by himself.
Enough is enough.
You know, it wasn't me who started it and actually it is you who is always trying to prove I am wrong, not vice versa. You can see it even in this thread. Yes, you guessed it right, those 2 examples are your only Mi wins which I could find and I believe it is weird that you advise one way while playing your games in exactly opposite way.
Edit. The same applies to minmay of course:
- Code:
O Level 27 Fighting
O Level 27 Axes
O Level 27 Armour
+ Level 22.3 Dodging
- Level 1.5 Stealth
- Level 4.0 Spellcasting
- Level 2.9 Conjurations
- Level 15.1 Invocations
- Level 21.4 Evocations
Though it "Was the Champion of Okawaru" so as you can see he preferred to train everything to 27 despite Heroism and not training Haste or any other spells.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/minma ... 211350.txtEdit2. dck, you forgot to explain your only non-Trog win with Mi (it was second
example)
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 01:10
by dck
Oh you little devil. Hadn't looked at the actually posted guys in detail and forgot to double check.
Anyway, training cannot be judged without further understanding of the character (so actually linking to the morgue and seeing what they had, not being a facetious jerk) and you posting my MiCK and MiHu doesn't really do much to make your case of really bad advice look better.
The MiHu was ^Trog and he is well trained, the CK didn't bother getting haste castable. The CK was trained with orbruntomb in mind and eventually didn't do it because how boring Mi are just got to me.
But as I said, enough of this bullshit. I have no reason to explain how I actually play or train my characters to you, nor do I have any reason to explain obvious things like having stronk characters and being a good player means you can skip a lot of things and play in ways that are different from the optimal and still work with little effort.
If you keep looking at my other recent CKs some of them won't have spells (I think the MiCK casted little or nothing in the end) and they still had an easy time.
That is perfectly normal because crawl isn't a game that demands perfect execution or anything close to be beaten, but when people are new and ask for help they're often doing really really poorly, so it's best to actually try to help them as much as you can instead of going "oh I don't think you should get spells as a Mi because look at those apts" when you can perfectly learn spells as Mi and will indeed have an overall stronger character.
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 01:16
by Sandman25
That starts looking like a civilized dialogue, I am surpised I have not found bad words about me.
New player don't really understand when start training spells and I gave advice based on my experience. Yes, I can repeat
"I believe Mi are easier if they don't have any spells, at least in 3 rune games". Have you noticed the word "believe" here? I have wins with Mi who had spells and who didn't and I found the spell-less easier.
If you had different experience, you could share your opinion. Calling experience of other "stupid" is ... well, not very wise.
By the way, I had similar experience with HO - I couldn't win HO of Beough until I stopped training any spells until very late in the game. Having castable Haste in Vaults killed me because my defenses were worse than those of HO without spells which I played next.
Re: CIP: MiFi of Yred
Posted:
Sunday, 29th December 2013, 01:18
by Grimm
For pity's sake people don't turn YASD into another GDD. Put each other on your enemies list so you don't have to see each others' posts. xxx, sorry I locked your thread, pm me and I can split it into a new one for you.