CiP : HESk, I guess it is the one...

[mopl]

I'm having a lot of troubles with this background, but I feel I have the one !
Simple question : should I train some Bows ? I currently have no easy mean to deal with hydras, but I'm not sure that I want Oka to gift me arrows now...

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1585-g835621a (webtiles) character file.

mopl the Carver (High Elf Skald)                   Turns: 10789, Time: 01:05:47

HP  76/77        AC 10     Str 14      XL: 11   Next: 39%
MP  28/28        EV 20     Int 19      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 683         SH  0     Dex 17      Spells:  4 memorised, 14 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     a - +1 great sword
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     k - +2 robe {rF+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     (no shield)
rPois  +         rCorr    +     l - +0 helmet
rElec  .         rRot     .     t - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     G - +1 pair of gloves "Resompe" {+Rage rPois Int+4 Stlth}
rMut   .         Warding  .     (no boots)
Gourm  +         Stasis   .     H - amulet of the gourmand
                                Q - +1 ring of evasion
                                o - ring of wizardry

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are very full.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 12 of its levels.

You have collected 683 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +1,+1 great sword (weapon)
 b - a +0 blowgun
 c - a +0,+0 orcish bow
 d - a +0,+0 crossbow
Missiles
 p - 65 arrows
 x - 22 poisoned needles
 F - 5 curare-tipped needles
 J - 22 poisoned bolts
 S - 72 bolts
Armour
 k - a +2 robe of fire resistance (worn)
 l - a +0 helmet (worn)
 t - a +2 cloak of preservation (worn)
 G - the +1 pair of gloves "Resompe" (worn) {+Rage rPois Int+4 Stlth}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes you more stealthy.
Magical devices
 w - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1}
 E - a wand of frost {zapped: 5}
Comestibles
 K - a meat ration
 P - 5 bread rations
Scrolls
 f - 6 scrolls of blinking
 g - a scroll labeled APARCH VIONUGOLAFF
 n - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 r - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 2 scrolls of fear
 B - 2 scrolls of identify
 D - 2 scrolls of fog
 L - 3 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 o - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
 C - an uncursed ring of ice
 H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 M - an uncursed ring of fire
 Q - a +1 ring of evasion (right hand)
Potions
 e - 2 potions of might
 h - a potion of agility
 i - 5 potions of curing
 m - 2 potions of heal wounds
 s - a potion of resistance
 y - 2 potions of speed
 A - a potion of berserk rage
 I - 2 potions of invisibility
Books
 j - a book of Battle   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Infusion                          Charms                       1
   *Shroud of Golubria                Charms/Translocation         2
   Song of Slaying                    Charms                       2
   *Spectral Weapon                   Hexes/Charms                 3
   *Regeneration                      Charms/Necromancy            3
 u - a book of Summonings   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Abjuration                         Summoning                    3
   Recall                             Summoning/Translocation      3
   Summon Elemental                   Summoning                    4
   Shadow Creatures                   Summoning                    5
   Summon Demon                       Summoning                    5
   Summon Ugly Thing                  Summoning                    6
Magical staves
 q - an uncursed staff of earth
Miscellaneous
 z - a lamp of fire


   Skills:
 + Level 8.0 Fighting
 + Level 13.0 Long Blades
 - Level 0.8 Armour
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 6.6 Spellcasting
 - Level 1.1 Hexes
 - Level 5.0 Charms
 - Level 5.0 Invocations


You have 14 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Infusion              Chrm           ####..       1%          1    None
b - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ###.....     4%          3    ##.....
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ###.......   4%          3    ##.....
d - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ###.......   3%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/16)             Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (0/4) D:9
   Lair (2/8) D:8         

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Lugonu

Annotations:
D:4 exclusion: statue

Message History

This raw flesh tastes great.
Your spectral weapon fades away.
You continue eating.
Eat a chunk of big fish flesh? (ye/n/q/i?)
This raw flesh tastes great.
You continue eating.
Magic restored.
K - a meat ration
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
f - 6 scrolls of blinking (gained 1)
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
Found a stone staircase leading down.
Found a spear.
Done exploring.
Eat which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Done exploring.
Saving game... please wait.

................f##
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)..............#
.............#.#
........>......###
................f#
.........)......###
................@.#
......##........###
...............##
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.............#.##
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.................#
.................##
...^..............#


There are no monsters in sight!

[dirtywick]

You may get a flame branded long blade before you see any hydras.

[moocowmoocow]

You may get a flame branded long blade before you see any hydras.

Or wands... I don't think I would train bows at this point just to deal with possibility of hydras. Usually they can be avoided anyway if not killable.

[mopl]

Lair done, I dealt with hydras thanfs to Erika

Still : what about training Bows as a secondary weapon ? (I reached Long Blades 18)

[mopl]

Oka had nice gifts : which one would you use ?

  Code:

 a - a +5,+4 claymore of holy wrath
 m - a +4,+0 vampiric great sword (weapon)

[Sar]

Probably ench and use vamp, it's great in normal game and you don't need a ton of LBlades to use it, compared to a claymore anyway.

[nago]

The great sword isn't usually the best choice for a sword user - but this one is vampiric, which means you should use it until zot:5, unless oka is insanely kind and also give you a vampiric claymore. Anyway, enchant it at least to +5.
You may switch to the hw claymore for though undead (liches, bone dragons, ...) but don't bother anymore with bows.

I don't know if things changed from that dump, but it's mandatory to wear a better armour - any +3 leather one is good, but I'd aim to a mottled/fire dragon one.

[cerebovssquire]

I don't think your defenses are that great, I would probably work on that before considering another way of dealing damage. Your Fighting needs some work. And then you probably plan on sinking exp into Charms too when you find a book with Haste, and maybe getting medium armour later for 30+/30+ defenses, and you might want mindelay for a claymore later on, more exp into Charms if you do opt for medium armour, etc. I think that making this a strong charms/melee build is the way to go and that won't leave a lot of exp for bows until much later in the game.

On claymore vs great sword: you have mindelay for great sword, but not mindelay for claymore until level 26, that's a large amount of exp that would be better used right now for Fighting, Dodging, and depending on the armour you find, Armour. Use the vamp great sword for now (it's also a better weapon than holy wrath claymore regardless).

[mopl]

New dump, for recent answers...

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1637-gd423c14 (webtiles) character file.

mopl the Fencer (High Elf Skald)                   Turns: 51071, Time: 05:52:59

HP 131/134       AC 22     Str 17      XL: 18   Next: 35%
MP  35/35        EV 26     Int 20      God: Okawaru [******]
Gold 3252        SH  0     Dex 19      Spells:  5 memorised, 20 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     m - +4,+0 great sword (vamp)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     X - +2 elf ring mail {MR+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     (no shield)
rPois  +         rCorr    +     n - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         rRot     .     t - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     G - +1 pair of gloves "Resompe" {+Rage rPois Int+4 Stlth}
rMut   .         Warding  .     O - +1 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     B - amulet "Onebriof" {Faith rElec Dam+4}
                                E - ring of protection from magic
                                U - +3 ring of evasion

@: mildly poisoned, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage
}: 1/15 runes: barnacled


You are on level 4 of the Spider Nest.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 40 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 4181 gold pieces.
You have spent 929 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +5,+4 claymore of holy wrath
 b - a +0 blowgun
 m - a +4,+0 vampiric great sword (weapon)
 u - a +2,+2 great sword of flaming
 Z - a +1,+2 longbow of flame
Missiles
 p - 127 arrows
 x - 35 poisoned needles
 F - 19 curare-tipped needles
 J - 22 poisoned arrows
Armour
 n - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 t - a +2 cloak of preservation (worn)
 G - the +1 pair of gloves "Resompe" (worn) {+Rage rPois Int+4 Stlth}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 O - a +1 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
 X - a +2 elven ring mail of magic resistance (worn)
Magical devices
 d - a wand of teleportation (6)
 j - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 3}
 k - a wand of fire (3)
 w - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 2}
 V - a wand of magic darts (12)
Comestibles
 P - 3 bread rations
Scrolls
 f - 3 scrolls of blinking
 g - 2 scrolls of immolation
 o - a scroll of brand weapon
 r - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 3 scrolls of fear
 A - 2 scrolls of identify
 D - 3 scrolls of fog
 K - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 L - 8 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 B - the amulet "Onebriof" (around neck) {Faith rElec Dam+4}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of faith]
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+4).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 C - an uncursed ring of ice
 E - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 M - an uncursed ring of fire
 S - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 U - a +3 ring of evasion (left hand)
Potions
 c - a potion of brilliance
 e - a potion of might
 h - 2 potions of agility
 i - 7 potions of curing
 q - a potion of heal wounds
 s - 3 potions of resistance
 y - 5 potions of speed
 I - 2 potions of invisibility
 R - a potion of magic
Magical staves
 l - an uncursed staff of fire
Miscellaneous
 z - a lamp of fire
 H - a phial of floods
 N - a lamp of fire (inert)


   Skills:
 - Level 15.0 Fighting
 - Level 20.0 Long Blades
 - Level 12.0 Armour
 - Level 16.0 Dodging
 - Level 8.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 3.0 Hexes
 + Level 11.8 Charms
 - Level 4.0 Translocations
 - Level 7.0 Invocations


You have 20 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Infusion              Chrm           ######       1%          1    None
b - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #####...     1%          3    None
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   2%          3    None
d - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #####.....   1%          2    None
e - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      #####.....   4%          4    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/16)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:9
    Elf (2/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:8          Shoals (5/5) Lair:6
 Spider (4/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7       Vaults (0/5) D:15
 Depths (0/6) D:16       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Lugonu

Shops:
D:13 }%   D:16 [   Orc:4 *((?   Elf:2 ?

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8

Annotations:
Orc:4 scrolls & cure mut
Elf:2 scrolls

Message History

You kill the redback!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
You feel sick.
No target in view!
No target in view!
You offer a prayer to Okawaru.
The jumping spider corpse slowly burns to ash.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You found a web trap!
You see here a redback corpse.
You offer a prayer to Okawaru.
The redback corpse is consumed by flame.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
Things that are here:
a redback corpse
You offer a prayer to Okawaru.
The redback corpse is consumed by flame.
The redback corpse slowly burns to ash.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You feel sick.

Yep : no haste, no Repel Missiles that far...
Neither resists nor better armour.
I have a FD hide, but no ?EA...

[nago]

So what are you training charms for? It's always a bad idea to train a skill for something you haven't yet and you don't know if and when will be available.
You should rather train fighting and dodging or, considering your defences are quite good for this point of the game, you could add some other supportive magic if you have found the right spellbooks (translocation, necromancy, but even air/conjuration magic considering HE apts)

[mopl]

So what are you training charms for? It's always a bad idea to train a skill for something you haven't yet and you don't know if and when will be available.
You should rather train fighting and dodging or, considering your defences are quite good for this point of the game, you could add some other supportive magic if you have found the right spellbooks (translocation, necromancy, but even air/conjuration magic considering HE apts)

I wanted to increase my spells power (mainly Regen + Spectral weapon)... but it might be a bad idea...

[mopl]

New dump :

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1653-g0ad7a2c (webtiles) character file.

mopl the Fencer (High Elf Skald)                   Turns: 63018, Time: 07:25:49

HP 110/147       AC 22     Str 17      XL: 20   Next: 37%
MP  36/36        EV 26     Int 20      God: Okawaru [******]
Gold 4221        SH  0     Dex 19      Spells:  7 memorised, 17 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     m - +4,+0 great sword (vamp)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     X - +2 elf ring mail {MR+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     (no shield)
rPois  +         rCorr    +     n - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         rRot     .     t - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     G - +1 pair of gloves "Resompe" {+Rage rPois Int+4 Stlth}
rMut   .         Warding  .     O - +1 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     B - amulet "Onebriof" {Faith rElec Dam+4}
                                E - ring of protection from magic
                                U - +3 ring of evasion

@: studying Dodging, drained, extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments,
stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You are on level 2 of the Vaults.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 44 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 5150 gold pieces.
You have spent 929 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +5,+4 claymore of holy wrath
 m - a +4,+0 vampiric great sword (weapon)
 C - a glowing scimitar {god gift}
 W - a steaming crossbow
Armour
 n - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 t - a +2 cloak of preservation (worn)
 G - the +1 pair of gloves "Resompe" (worn) {+Rage rPois Int+4 Stlth}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 O - a +1 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
 R - a mottled dragon hide
 X - a +2 elven ring mail of magic resistance (worn)
Magical devices
 c - a wand of draining {zapped: 2}
 d - a wand of fire {zapped: 2}
 j - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 3}
 l - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1}
 p - a wand of teleportation (6)
 w - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 3}
 x - a wand of digging (15)
 V - a wand of magic darts (12)
Comestibles
 J - a meat ration
 P - 4 bread rations
 S - 3 chunks of elf flesh
 Z - a beef jerky
Scrolls
 f - 4 scrolls of blinking
 g - 2 scrolls of immolation
 k - 4 scrolls of identify
 r - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 2 scrolls of fear
 D - 3 scrolls of fog
 F - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 K - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 L - 7 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 b - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 B - the amulet "Onebriof" (around neck) {Faith rElec Dam+4}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of faith]
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+4).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 E - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 M - an uncursed ring of fire
 T - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 U - a +3 ring of evasion (left hand)
Potions
 e - 3 potions of might
 h - 2 potions of agility
 i - 6 potions of curing
 q - 2 potions of heal wounds
 s - 3 potions of resistance
 y - 3 potions of speed
 I - 2 potions of invisibility
Books
 o - a manual of Dodging
Miscellaneous
 u - a sack of spiders
 z - a lamp of fire
 A - a lantern of shadows
 H - a phial of floods
 N - a lamp of fire
 Q - a box of beasts
 Y - a phial of floods


   Skills:
 - Level 16.0(14.8) Fighting
 - Level 20.0(18.7) Long Blades
 - Level 14.0(12.8) Armour
 + Level 17.6(16.3) Dodging
 - Level 8.0(7.0) Spellcasting
 - Level 3.0(2.1) Hexes
 - Level 12.0(10.9) Charms
 - Level 4.0(3.1) Translocations
 - Level 12.0(10.9) Air Magic
 - Level 7.0(6.0) Invocations
 + Level 7.8(6.8) Evocations


You have 17 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Infusion              Chrm           ######       1%          1    None
b - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ####....     1%          3    #......
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   3%          3    #......
d - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #####.....   1%          2    None
e - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      #####.....   8%          4    ###....
f - Static Discharge      Conj/Air       ####....     3%          3    #......
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/16)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:9
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:8          Shoals (5/5) Lair:6
 Spider (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7       Vaults (2/5) D:15
 Depths (0/6) D:16       
 Crypt: Vaults:2-3  Forest: Vaults:2-3 

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Lugonu

Shops:
D:13 }%   D:16 [   Orc:4 *((?   Elf:2 ?   Vaults:1 (   Vaults:2 (*

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8
Bazaar: Elf:3

Annotations:
Orc:4 scrolls & cure mut
Elf:2 scrolls

Message History

Welcome back, mopl the High Elf Skald.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
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You start resting.
Your skin stops crawling.
Cast which spell? (? or * to list)
Your skin crawls.
You start resting.
Your skin is crawling a little less now.
Your skin stops crawling.
Casting: Regeneration
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Your skin crawls.
You start resting.
Magic restored.
Your skin is crawling a little less now.
You start resting.
Your skin stops crawling.
You are feeling hungry.
Saving game... please wait.

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There are no monsters in sight!

Cleared Schoals, Spider and Elf (many spellbooks here but nothing very useful apart from Repel Missiles)
Doing Vaults now...
I don't know if training Conjuration is any use...
I plan to use Tornado along my LB, what do you think of this ?