YASD: DsHu of Oka

[cerebovssquire]

You often get GSCs off ogres and the only enemy that can use a dire flail around that depth is Edmund... so you generally get a GSC before a dire flail.

Sure you find GSCs more often and not every dflail is +11 and branded, so you obviously want the GSC in most cases- however after the recent M&F "nerf" any random orc warrior or wight can have a dire flail instead of a great mace.

Just answering the question which one you usually find first, not making any statement about power there

[dck]

Hahaha, fair's fair.
Still find that nerfing M&F by making one of their coolest weapons more available earlier was quite a strange thing to do.

[pickled_heretic]

I usually hit 22 m&f in the early/mid levels of lair with +3 apt. You are very nearly guaranteed a gsc by that point. This does not seem to be a very difficult decision to make.

[Siegurt]

If you fail to see how average damage 20.3 is different from average damage 29.8, I am not sure you understand when monsters die and your opinion should be ignored.

  Code:

a +7,+11 dire flail of freezing (weapon)
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     22.6 |     81 |      89% |  20.3 |    60  |  1.67 |     33.8

Just a small point here, If you want to compare two weapons, you're looking at the wrong column, the last column is the "Effective damage per time, including weapon speed and accuracy" the "AvDam" is the average damage per swing (Adjusted for accuracy but not speed)

[dck]

(this is why I didn't address his numbers directly, incidentally)
(also because he didn't even say what he was running the fsim against)

[Sandman25]

I love fighting monsters in corridor: it becomes adjacent to me, I kill it in one shot, another monster becomes adjacent to me, I kill it one shot, another monster becomes adjacent to me, I kill it in one shot...
So yes, I am looking at right column, average damage per hit is what I need for GSC.

[Sandman25]

(this is why I didn't address his numbers directly, incidentally)
(also because he didn't even say what he was running the fsim against)

Sorry, I forgot. I always run it vs Yak as crate suggested.

[pickled_heretic]

An ogre is 3 things to me: huge HP, large rocks and GSC. They pretty much suck at anything else. However, those three are a strong enough platform to support whatever you branch into and take very little exp to get running. GSC in particular is just so good because you basically have your end game weapon in D4 and can begin enchanting it right away, and have min delay in the lair (or even sooner, with ash or oka). I can't ever see using anything else unless there is some bizarre circumstance where you can't find a GSC, but even then I would prefer a giant club. Can't ever see using a dire flail, like, ever. Weapons with huge base damage do much better against big armored targets than the numbers seem to suggest. Go fight a pack of death yaks with a dire flail and get back to me on that.

I might consider, like, some kind of amazing demon whip and a shield, but it would have to be truly awesome. At least in that case there is a tradeoff between additional equipment slots and SH.

[cerebovssquire]

Go fight a pack of death yaks with a +11 branded dire flail? Sounds alright to me - we are just discussing this in the context of this specific case. I mean, I myself prefer the GSC a lot more for Vaults/Depths/Zot but if you found that sort of dire flail at or before or even somewhat over skill level 14 you should first train something other than M&F.