First victory! HOHe!

[Scrotar]

How do I find the record of the game stats that I just won?

What a fun game. I really scored with equipment. Thought I was surely dead a few times only to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. The character had very few weaknesses, and those it did have were largely mitigated by self healing.

I don't know why orcs have invocation of 2, it makes no sense from a flavor perspective (orcs are holy?) .

HOHe is extremely powerful.

[hopelessDelvder]

# Creates a dump of the game, tells you the path to it. Congrats!

[Jabberwocky]

Presumably all their praying to Beogh gives them experience in invoking the wrath of their god.

[palin]

I don't know why orcs have invocation of 2, it makes no sense from a flavor perspective (orcs are holy?) .

Orcs have so many priests (of Beogh) that it seems they are a very proficient specie in those matters... Maybe Hill Orcs are even better than Cave ones.

[Scrotar]

I don't know why orcs have invocation of 2, it makes no sense from a flavor perspective (orcs are holy?) .

Orcs have so many priests (of Beogh) that it seems they are a very proficient specie in those matters... Maybe Hill Orcs are even better than Cave ones.

The key observation there is "of Beogh". They may be very proficient at following their patron deity, but from a flavor perspective that is a poor reason to make them proficient at following every other deity. In fact, given the nature of Orcs, devotion to Beogh and crude nature, a strong case could be made for giving them subnormal invocations, much less high.

Honestly, I have no dog in this race and it seems as if the devs have completely lost touch with what coherent flavor is. Hint: even though flavor is artsy fartsy, your game would be nothing without it, please develop it wisely.

[Zuboki]

Honestly, I have no dog in this race and it seems as if the devs have completely lost touch with what coherent flavor is. Hint: even though flavor is artsy fartsy, your game would be nothing without it, please develop it wisely.

That's quite presumptuous of you, telling the devs how to make their game right after your first win. Clearly, they should listen to the wise and honorable Scrotar.

There's nothing wrong with being perplexed by or disagreeing with some design choices, but acting superior and dropping not-so-subtle "hints" on how this game would fail were it not for your input just makes you look like a jackass.

Congrats on your first win!

[zogre]

I don't know why orcs have invocation of 2, it makes no sense from a flavor perspective (orcs are holy?) .

Orcs have so many priests (of Beogh) that it seems they are a very proficient specie in those matters... Maybe Hill Orcs are even better than Cave ones.

The key observation there is "of Beogh". They may be very proficient at following their patron deity, but from a flavor perspective that is a poor reason to make them proficient at following every other deity. In fact, given the nature of Orcs, devotion to Beogh and crude nature, a strong case could be made for giving them subnormal invocations, much less high.

Honestly, I have no dog in this race and it seems as if the devs have completely lost touch with what coherent flavor is. Hint: even though flavor is artsy fartsy, your game would be nothing without it, please develop it wisely.

A great thing about this open source game is that you can fork it and make whatever you want, and if your version really is better, people might actually play it.

A warning from one who has tried that though - it is a difficult path. I loved Mountain Dwarves, but not enough to patch them back into the game as often as it was needed to keep it current.

Congratulations on your first win ! Hope that many more come your way.

[Scrotar]

I gotta say, this is one of the most vile and backwards forum communities I've ever seen. Between the one guy blatantly misinterpreting what I said and how I said it to make it seem like I was being unreasonable, the next one admitting that the alternative to towing the line is effectively unattainable, and minmay (a forum superstar?) completely failing to speak to my point about invocations not being thematically suitable to Orcs, beyond an extremely vague and snarky helpfile dump.

Crawl's a fun game, but we are witnessing it being driven into the ground by a bunch of anti-social young adults.

[Sar]

Leaving aside the fact that Crawl tends to stray away from some common fantasy tropes by design (love it or hate it), a case can be made that orcs, favoring strong authority (they're often portrayed as evil wizard servants after all), are good at following gods because what are gods if not the ultimate authority?

That said I'll give you a benefit of doubt and say you're just trying to stir up some heat here.

[Scrotar]

I could discuss my assertions further but I suspect that may be utterly pointless. If anyone has a shred of sense, let me know.

[One-Eyed Jack]

You have not made any arguments. As minmay was trying to say (I think), the invocations skill is defined exclusively as a mechanical device - it has no other features in the game, so how can it be "inconsistent" vis-a-vis flavor? Why would being "crude" imply that they should have subnormal invocations aptitude? You're bringing preconceptions about certain tropes (e.g. that eloquence or sophistication makes it easier to use divine abilities) into the game and implying that those preconceptions being misaligned with the way the game is structured is an "inconsistency" in flavor.

Then you come in here, use this misinformed and singular argument to say "the devs have completely lost touch with what coherent flavor is," then, instead of refuting counterarguments, throw up your hands, insult the forum and the (mostly polite) people who have responded to you, and say "I'm too good to discuss this any further."

go away

Edit: Also, here's the manual file on Hill Orcs:

Hill Orcs are Orcs from the upper world who, jealous of the riches which their cousins the Cave Orcs possess below the ground, descend in search of plunder and adventure.

Hill Orcs are as robust as the Mountain Dwarves, but have very low reserves of magical energy. Their forte is brute-force fighting, and they are skilled at using most hand weapons (with the exception of short blades, at which they are only fair), although they are not particularly good at using missile weapons. They prefer to use their own weapons. Orcs are poor at using most types of magic, with the exception of conjurations, necromancy, and the elemental magic of earth, fire and ice. They advance in levels as quickly as Humans.

What about this implies that they are "crude" or impious?

Also, hill orcs don't worship Beogh exclusively. Is Zin "the god" of Draconians or Tengu because DrPr and TePr start with him? No, he's just one option. I mean, hell, more DD worship Makhleb than HO worship Beogh probably

[Zuboki]

I gotta say, this is one of the most vile and backwards forum communities I've ever seen.

That's hilarious. We seem to work well in other topics, in which you aren't spitting insults at everyone or asserting your indignation that anyone would ever question your opinion because, by gum you're right and anyone who can't see that clearly doesn't have a spare brain cell to devote to appreciating it, since we're obviously too busy slapping our dicks together to listen to your brilliantly non-existent rebuttals. Have you considered, perhaps, that the problem may just be you?

To relate to the actual issue at hand, I would like to add that Orcs are one of the more structured races, with the way they appear in squads. There's an implied hierarchy in Orcish society, suggesting that they are capable of individually asserting their positions in a social order. Why, then, wouldn't they be skilled in submitting to the whims of a god as a superior? If orcish society values servitude, wouldn't they be more capable of serving their god than one of the more "independent" races?

I also agree with everything Jack has stated, in particular,

go away

[yogaFLAME]

Did a dev steal your girlfriend, or beat you up and take your lunch money, or something? Your post history is hilarious.

[Grimm]

Deep trolls can be dangerous opponents.

[TehDruid]

Gratz on the win and making yourself look like an ass.