Confusion spells for a SpFE of Vehumet?

[danr]

I'm in the midst of cleaning up my spell list, but before I destroy the wrong book, I want to check one thing. Having some way to confuse monsters is very beneficial - I've just cleared Orc and Lair, so there's still a fair bit of the game where I'll be facing confuseable monsters. Confusion is nice esp. against ranged enemies because then I can sit back and blow them all to smithereens in relative safety.

Right now I have Confuse and Meph Cloud. Other options available to me are Alistair's Intoxication and Mass Confusion. I have an amulet of clarity, and can cast L6 spells without hunger. What's likely to be the best - Mass Confusion? If so I'd like to know so I can tear up my book of Party Tricks to forget Projected Noise.

This time I've posted a full dump, any advice at all is appreciated. This is my first ever FE, at least in a long time.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.3-5-gf0cc9df character file.

Took the Sorcerer (Spriggan Fire Elementalist)     Turns: 61679, Time: 06:03:26

HP  67/67        AC 12     Str  7      XL: 16   Next: 30%
MP  51/51        EV 24     Int 25      God: Vehumet [*****.]
Gold 1267        SH 10     Dex 11      Spells: 19 memorised, 11 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +    a - +0,+2 orc dagger (protect)
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  C - +2 elf robe {rC+ rF+}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    S - +0 orc buckler
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    H - +2 wizard hat
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : +    k - +0 elf cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    E - amulet of clarity
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    y - +2 ring of intelligence
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    r - ring of Ghesiupa {MP+9 Dex-5 Int+2}

@: very quick, very resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: unfitting armour, see invisible, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 3
a: Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 29 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have visited 2 portal chambers: sewer, bailey.

You have collected 3699 gold pieces.
You have spent 2452 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +0,+2 orcish dagger of protection (weapon)
 b - an uncursed dagger of speed (quivered)
 f - the +6,+11 sling "Ghoumom" {venom, Int+2 SInv}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   
   It poisons the ammo it fires.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It enhances your eyesight.
 F - an uncursed orcish dagger of draining
 J - an uncursed dagger of electrocution
Armour
 k - a +0 elven cloak (worn)
 C - a +2 elven robe of resistance (worn)
 H - a +2 wizard hat (worn)
 I - a +2 orcish robe of magic resistance
 S - a +0 orcish buckler (worn)
Magical devices
 N - a wand of digging
Comestibles
 d - a royal jelly
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of detect curse
 K - 2 scrolls of fear
 L - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 M - 2 scrolls of identify
 P - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 Q - a scroll of fog
 R - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 T - 2 scrolls of blinking
 U - 3 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 g - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 p - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 r - the ring of Ghesiupa (left hand) {MP+9 Dex-5 Int+2}
   (You found it in the bailey)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (-5).
 t - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 x - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 y - a +2 ring of intelligence (right hand)
 A - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 E - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
Potions
 h - a potion of speed
 j - a potion of invisibility
 s - a potion of might
 u - a potion of levitation
 B - a potion of berserk rage
 D - a potion of curing


   Skills:
 - Level 0.1 Short Blades
 - Level 14.3 Dodging
 - Level 8.1 Stealth
 - Level 0.4 Stabbing
 - Level 1.0 Shields
 - Level 8.0 Traps & Doors
 - Level 24.2 Spellcasting
 + Level 7.2 Conjurations
 - Level 5.0 Hexes
 - Level 4.1 Translocations
 - Level 11.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 1.1 Earth Magic
 - Level 2.1 Evocations


You have 11 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Throw Flame           Fire/Conj      #######      1%          2    None
b - Bolt of Fire          Fire/Conj      #######...   1%          6    None
c - Conjure Flame         Fire/Conj      #######..    1%          3    None
d - Inner Flame           Fire/Hex       #######..    1%          3    None
e - Sticky Flame          Fire/Conj      #######..    1%          4    None
f - Fireball              Fire/Conj      #######...   1%          5    None
g - Apportation           Tloc           #######...   1%          1    None
h - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
i - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ######....   1%          2    None
j - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ######....   6%          4    None
k - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #####....    1%          1    None
l - Projected Noise       Hex            N/A          1%          2    None
n - Mephitic Cloud        Pois/Air/Conj  ######...    1%          3    None
o - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #######..    1%          4    None
p - Magic Dart            Conj           #####        1%          1    None
q - Flame Tongue          Fire/Conj      ######       1%          1    None
r - Confuse               Hex            #######..    1%          3    None
s - Repel Missiles        Air/Chrm       #####.....   1%          2    None
t - Flight                Air/Chrm       #####.....   3%          3    None



[Blade]

First, this should be in the YASD/YAVP/CiP subforum.

Now, onto the topic at hand: Frankly, I don't see the point. In just about every situation where confusion would have potential uses, Fireball will kill the confusable monsters in about three turns. I am having a really hard time thinking of a situation where confusion would be more than a distraction for a FE.

That said, if you're dead set on using it, I would go for Alistair's and not Mass Confusion. Alistair's has the advantage of being effectively irresistible (it won't work 100% of the time, but it will work at the same rate on all potential targets) and is two levels lower. Mass Confusion is only useful for a select few character builds, and FE*Veh is not one of them.

[pratamawirya]

Not to mention that almost every dangerous ranged attacker you'd want to confuse is intelligent, so yeah, get Alistair's.

[danr]

Thanks, I did get Alistairs and it proved useful a few times in Elf:5. Without it there's one or two times that master archers might have turned me into a pincushion.

Is there any point keeping Confuse or Meph Cloud if I have Clarity?

Now that I've really got this character rolling, and have added Orb of Destruction and a Staff of Energy, I am seeing that the confusion really is not that necessary as I am blasting stuff fairly easily.

[nago]

Alistair's is better than meph (lesser resistible, affect everything in LOS) but can't be compared with confusion, as the latter affects enemies with rpois, undead and maybe demon (not sure about the last).
Anyway, if a SpFE can confuse a enemy, he can probably safely kill it in less time, so, as Blade said, I don't think there's a situation where's confusion could be a better move than simply nuking the foo.

[danr]

Well, I got the Swamp rune, and after obliterating Mara, Saint Roka and a few other badass uniques, I stumbled across Nikola on my way back up towards Lair. He was asleep, I had a wide open approach, and I turned on Repel Missiles and Flight, thinking one or the other might help a bit against his attacks. I also heard he's more dangerous in corridors, and this was a totally wide open space in swamp.

So I step into his LOS, he's still asleep, check, staff of energy equipped, check, let loose an Orb of Destruction ... and Bam! I'm D-E-D. From full HP. Note to self - just run when you see Nikola, esp. with a Spriggan.

Still, it was a fun game, I'm glad for a chance to start over because of what I learned with this game, I'll do some things differently next time.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.3-5-gf0cc9df character file.

230298 Took the Sorcerer (level 19, 0/78 HPs)
             Began as a Spriggan Fire Elementalist on July 14, 2012.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Killed from afar by Nikola (10 damage)
             ... with a chain lightning
             
             ... on Level 3 of the Swamp on July 16, 2012.
             The game lasted 08:35:02 (81252 turns).

Took the Sorcerer (Spriggan Fire Elementalist)     Turns: 81252, Time: 08:35:02

HP   0/78        AC  9     Str  7      XL: 19   Next: 60%
MP  42/52        EV 33     Int 24      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 2218        SH  0     Dex 11      Spells: 20 memorised,  5 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +    b - staff of energy
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  C - +2 elf robe {rC+ rF+} (curse)
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (shield restricted)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    H - +2 wizard hat
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : +    d - +2 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    E - amulet of clarity
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : +    r - ring of Ghesiupa {MP+9 Dex-5 Int+2}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: +    O - ring of Shaolin {EV+8}

@: repel missiles (expires), flying, very quick, extremely resistant to hostile
enchantments, very stealthy
A: unfitting armour, see invisible, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 3
a: Renounce Religion
}: 1/15 runes: decaying


You were on level 3 of the Swamp.
You worshipped Vehumet.
Vehumet was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and saw 39 of its levels.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You visited 2 portal chambers: sewer, bailey.

You collected 4650 gold pieces.
You spent 2452 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 s - a +0,+2 orcish dagger of protection (quivered)
Armour
 d - a +2 cloak (worn)
 k - a +0 elven cloak
 C - a cursed +2 elven robe of resistance (worn)
 H - a +2 wizard hat (worn)
Magical devices
 y - a wand of digging (8)
 N - a wand of digging (4)
Comestibles
 q - 2 bread rations
Scrolls
 i - a scroll of magic mapping
 o - a scroll of holy word {unknown}
 v - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 K - 3 scrolls of fear
 M - 12 scrolls of identify
 P - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 Q - 2 scrolls of fog
 S - a scroll of recharging
 T - a scroll of blinking
 U - 2 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 c - a cursed amulet of stasis
 f - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 g - a cursed amulet of conservation
 l - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 m - an uncursed ring of magical power
 p - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 r - the ring of Ghesiupa (right hand) {MP+9 Dex-5 Int+2}
   (You found it in the bailey)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (-5).
 t - a cursed ring of protection from fire
 x - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 A - a cursed ring of protection from cold
 E - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
 F - a cursed ring of magical power
 G - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 O - the ring of Shaolin (left hand) {EV+8}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   It affects your evasion (+8).
 X - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
Potions
 e - a potion of heal wounds
 h - a potion of speed
 j - a potion of invisibility
 n - 2 potions of restore abilities
 u - a potion of levitation
 w - a potion of mutation {unknown}
 z - a potion of berserk rage
 B - a potion of might
 D - 6 potions of curing
Magical staves
 a - a staff of fire
 b - a staff of energy (weapon)


   Skills:
 - Level 0.1 Short Blades
 - Level 14.3 Dodging
 - Level 8.1 Stealth
 - Level 0.4 Stabbing
 - Level 1.0 Shields
 - Level 8.0 Traps & Doors
 - Level 24.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 16.0 Conjurations
 - Level 5.0 Hexes
 - Level 4.1 Translocations
 - Level 2.0 Transmutations
 + Level 11.3 Fire Magic
 - Level 1.1 Earth Magic
 - Level 2.1 Evocations


You had 5 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           #####        0%          1    None
b - Flame Tongue          Fire/Conj      ######       0%          1    None
c - Throw Flame           Fire/Conj      #######      0%          2    None
d - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           ########.    0%          4    None
e - Sticky Flame          Fire/Conj      #######..    1%          4    None
f - Fireball              Fire/Conj      #######...   1%          5    None
g - Bolt of Fire          Fire/Conj      #######...   1%          6    None
h - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
i - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ######....   1%          2    None
j - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ######....   6%          4    None
k - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #####....    1%          1    None
l - Alistair's Intoxicat  Pois/Trmt      #####....    10%         4    None
m - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   1%          7    Choko
n - Mephitic Cloud        Pois/Air/Conj  #######..    1%          3    None
o - Inner Flame           Fire/Hex       #######..    1%          3    None
p - Conjure Flame         Fire/Conj      #######..    0%          3    None
q - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   1%          1    None
r - Confuse               Hex            #######..    1%          3    None
s - Repel Missiles        Air/Chrm       #####.....   1%          2    None
t - Flight                Air/Chrm       #####.....   3%          3    None


[pratamawirya]

Anyway, if a SpFE can confuse a enemy, he can probably safely kill it in less time, so, as Blade said, I don't think there's a situation where's confusion could be a better move than simply nuking the foo.

Maybe when your character gets surrounded by enemies? Although you can just blink or teleport away.

[nago]

Anyway, if a SpFE can confuse a enemy, he can probably safely kill it in less time, so, as Blade said, I don't think there's a situation where's confusion could be a better move than simply nuking the foo.

Maybe when your character gets surrounded by enemies? Although you can just blink or teleport away.

Heck, as a magic character is already difficult to get surrounded (blink, swiftness, killing thing from afar - there are a lot of ways to do this). As Sp you *can't* never get surrounded by enemies - except maybe while going downstairs you improbably find 6 enemies waiting for you.
And generally speaking, if I'm surrounded as mage - without blink - I'd prefer to kill the weakest enemy and retreat, rather than trying to confuse an enemy, hoping he doesn't resist or don't move from actual position or even casually attack me.

About Nikola: his chainlighting is dreadful, I wouldn't ever approach him with a character with only 78hp and no relec - I'm not sure, but I believe the arc always hit and can't be dodged.

Oh, chain's arc hit anything in LOS, so if you really wanted to kill him you should have use Summon Butterflies, as also bot suggests: the arc would have distribute on more targets, greatly lowering the damage suffered

[danr]

Yeah, next time I'll just run. The XP just isn't worth the chance of death which with Nikola is significantly higher than 0%. Approaching him is about as wise as playing russian roulette - eventually, you lose.