octopode recommendation and question

[Nod2003]

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16.1 (tiles) character file.

Splat the Frost Mage (Octopode Ice Elementalist)   Turns: 10522, Time: 00:51:56

Health: 56/56      AC:  1    Str: 10    XL:     9   Next: 39%
Magic:  15/15      EV: 13    Int: 20    God:    Fedhas [***...]
Gold:   400        SH:  0    Dex: 12    Spells: 3 memorised, 4 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     J - +0 blowgun
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     (no shield)
rNeg   + . .     SustAb   .     (helmet restricted)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     (no amulet)
rElec  .         Spirit   .     h - ring of ice
rCorr  .         Warding  .     r - ring of protection from cold
rMut   .         Stasis   .     N - ring of see invisible
MR     .....                    A - +2 ring of strength
Stlth  ++++......               R - ring of positive energy
                                T - ring of fire
                                (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: almost no armour, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, camouflage 1, gelatinous
body 1
a: Evolution, Sunlight, Growth, Renounce Religion


You are on level 8 of the Dungeon.
You worship Fedhas.
Fedhas is most pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 8 of its levels.

You have collected 400 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 k - a +0 whip
 J - a +0 blowgun (weapon)
Missiles
 g - 161 stones
 l - 26 poisoned needles (quivered)
 w - 9 tomahawks
 C - a throwing net
Armour
 d - a buckler
Magical staves
 I - an uncursed staff of air
Jewellery
 h - a ring of ice (left tentacle)
 r - a ring of protection from cold (right tentacle)
 A - a +2 ring of strength (on tentacle)
 N - a ring of see invisible (on tentacle)
 R - a ring of positive energy (on tentacle)
 T - a ring of fire (on tentacle)
Magical devices
 F - a wand of draining (3)
Scrolls
 a - 3 scrolls of immolation
 f - a scroll of identify
 j - a scroll of remove curse
 q - a scroll labeled GIFANWIOHIN
 s - 2 scrolls labeled THRAK UREUNK
 t - 3 scrolls labeled QEEWKUW AXUOTZ
 v - 2 scrolls of fog
 x - a scroll labeled CATIZE RABB
 y - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 z - a scroll of magic mapping
 B - 2 scrolls labeled QAITI PIFOCYIX
 O - a scroll labeled MOVVO HASONGEL
 Q - a scroll labeled PULIWE MNIUFEOJ
Potions
 e - a lumpy emerald potion
 m - a potion of haste
 n - 3 potions of curing
 o - 2 potions of heal wounds
 u - a metallic white potion
 D - a smoky brown potion
 E - 3 bubbling amethyst potions
 G - a dark potion
 H - a potion of restore abilities
 K - a glowing puce potion
 L - 3 bubbling blue potions
 M - 2 inky potions
 P - a fuming orange potion
 S - a murky white potion
Books
 b - a book of Frost   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Freeze                       Ice                           1
    b - Throw Frost                  Conjuration/Ice               2
    c - Ozocubu's Armour             Charms/Ice                    3
    d - Throw Icicle                 Conjuration/Ice               4
    e - Summon Ice Beast             Ice/Summoning                 4
    f - Condensation Shield          Ice                           4
Comestibles
 c - 2 bread rations
 i - 4 meat rations
 p - 2 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 - Level 3.1 Fighting
 - Level 4.0 Dodging
 - Level 4.4 Stealth
 - Level 2.0 Spellcasting
   Level 1.0 Conjurations
 - Level 6.0 Summonings
 + Level 8.6 Ice Magic
 - Level 4.1 Invocations


You have 4 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Freeze                Ice            ####         1%          1    #......
b - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ###.....     10%         3    ###....
c - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       ####....     10%         4    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (8/15)             Temple (0/1) D:4            Lair (0/8) D:8

Altars:
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Fedhas
Gozag
Ru
Sif Muna
Xom
Yredelemnul

Shops:
D:4 [   D:7 [

Annotations:
D:4 Bonbon's ghost, average DgWn


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot wear most types of armour.
You are amphibious.
You can wear up to eight rings at the same time.
You can use your tentacles to constrict many enemies at once.
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth).
Your rubbery body absorbs attacks (AC +1).


Message History

Found a war axe.
l - 26 poisoned needles (gained 1)
You found a teleport trap!
You see here a war axe.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You climb downwards.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
Found 19 stones.
You see here 19 stones.
g - 161 stones (gained 19)
Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
Found a scroll labeled PULIWE MNIUFEOJ.
Q - a scroll labeled PULIWE MNIUFEOJ
Found a murky white potion.
S - a murky white potion
You found a shaft!
Found a wooden ring.
T - a wooden ring
You feel more attuned to fire.
T - a ring of fire (on tentacle)

##...........# ..#
............## #.).
............#   #...
#..........##  ##...
#..........#   .....
#.........##   .....
#.........#  ##...#
##.......### #....#
 ######....###....+
      ###...#.....#
        ###...@...#
          ##...........
           ##.........
            #.#....###
            #.#...##
            #..#.##
            #.. ##
            #..#
            ##.


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  An ice beast (D:5)
  An ogre (D:4)
  3 giant frogs
  2 scorpions
  3 crimson imps
  A quasit (D:5)
  2 goliath beetles
  4 hounds
  3 orc priests (D:4)
  3 iguanas (D:4)
  9 orc wizards
  8 worker ants
  Terence (D:3)
  A hound skeleton (D:4)
  3 gnolls
  A human zombie (D:6)
  14 adders
  A giant mite (D:4)
  2 worms
  2 adder skeletons
  6 giant geckos
  32 orcs
  A bat skeleton (D:7)
  8 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  2 ball pythons
  7 bats
  7 giant cockroaches
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:6)
  7 giant newts
  19 kobolds
  6 quokkas
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  12 rats
186 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A hippogriff (D:8)
  Edmund (D:6)
  An ice beast (D:7)
  A phantom (D:4)
  2 ogres (D:5)
  A giant frog (D:8)
  A big kobold (D:7)
  A jelly (D:5)
  An orc priest (D:8)
  A hound (D:6)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:4)
  2 orc wizards
  A shadow imp (D:6)
  An adder zombie (D:5)
  2 orcs
  A goblin (D:6)
  A kobold (D:7)
  A goblin zombie (D:6)
21 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  2 ice beasts (D:4)
  A giant gecko (D:7)
  A giant spore (D:7)
  106 toadstools
110 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 317 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Splat, the Octopode Ice Elementalist, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 3/3
   426 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 17/17 MP: 2/4
  1173 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Ice Magic
  1173 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 18/21 MP: 4/6
  1277 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Ozocubu's Armour
  1810 | D:2      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  1829 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Fedhas Madash
  2146 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 27/27 MP: 4/7
  2187 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
  2732 | D:3      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  2821 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 27/31 MP: 1/9
  3068 | D:3      | Noticed Terence
  3083 | D:3      | Killed Terence
  3718 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3740 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3749 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Ice Magic
  3918 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  3924 | D:4      | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Ice Beast
  3965 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 29/39 MP: 5/10
  4254 | D:4      | Acquired Fedhas' first power
  4346 | D:4      | Found Zeppeg's Antique Armour Boutique.
  4393 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
  4655 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 44/46 MP: 6/12
  5591 | D:4      | Noticed Bonbon's ghost (average DgWn)
  5800 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  5800 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
  5821 | D:4      | Acquired Fedhas' second power
  6213 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6224 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 48/52 MP: 9/13
  6625 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Ice Magic
  7026 | D:5      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  7548 | D:5      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  7548 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  7597 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  7852 | D:6      | Noticed a white ugly thing
  8419 | D:6      | Noticed Edmund
  8430 | D:6      | Killed Edmund
  8665 | D:7      | Found Yhius' Antique Armour Shoppe.
  8700 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 56/56 MP: 15/15
  8745 | D:7      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  8769 | D:7      | Acquired Fedhas' third power
  9024 | D:6      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  9114 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Ice Magic
  9886 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  9887 | D:8      | Noticed a fire drake
 10291 | D:7      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 10443 | D:8      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |     3 |       |       ||     3
       Whip              |     3 |    18 |    31 ||    52
       Staff             |       |       |    17 ||    17
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |    16 ||    16
Throw: Stone             |    19 |    16 |    14 ||    49
       Throwing net      |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Tomahawk          |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Cast: Freeze            |    45 |   103 |   193 ||   341
       Summon Ice Beast  |       |       |    19 ||    19
  Use: Scroll            |       |     1 |    10 ||    11
       Potion            |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Stab: Sleeping          |     4 |     9 |     4 ||    17
  Eat: Chunk             |     4 |     9 |    16 ||    29
       Bread ration      |       |       |     2 ||     2



Two questions. First, I have a ring of fire and a ring of ice. wearing both at the same time will cancel out resistances, but will I get the boost for casting both fire and ice magic? Second, what do I do with this character? RNG hasn't given me a single fruit yet as a Fed worshiper, there is a cold resistant ugly thing hiding on D6, and a tough player ghost on D5. My offensive capability is ok except when up against rCold type enemies, particularly if they are also rPoison or if those enemies have fire based attacks like the fire drake guarding the entrance to the Lair.

[Siegurt]

The rings cancel out each-other's spellpower bonus (wearing a ring of fire by itself will act as a spellpower suppressor for cold spells)

With Fed, you want to get some mushrooms (which don't require fruit, just toadstools and you can get those by praying over any corpse) usually 2-3 is sufficient, they're very powerful, but stay still with critters in LOS, so you can lead nasty things past them and they'll confuse and do buckets of damage to the bad guys. Fruits are good for later, but mushrooms should suffice for now.

Ugly things change resistances/attack flavors periodically, so if you see one that's cold resistant you can probably just string it along for a while until it changes color.

Ugly things don't usually show up that early (they're kind of nasty for D:6) which probably means you waited around too long. Remember, you don't have to kill it, you can just avoid it and jump on down to D:7 leaving it behind.

I'd get throw icicle, and probably wear that buckler and train the XP to get rid of the spellcasting penalty (condensation shield wasn't usually worth it, but it's not *terrible* if you don't want to spend the XP on getting a buckler to no penalty) condensation shield's main problem is it costs way too much mana for how much protection it provides. Throw icicle is part cold and part physical damage,and it's ranged so it's nice if you want a damage dealer that isn't pure cold damage, you'd probably want to get some conjuration for it. Having a ranged source of damage is nice with Fed, as you can fire through plants, and thereby use them as blockers in a pinch.

[Gigaslurp]

Ice beasts + mushrooms should keep you going for a while, at least through most of (if not all of) Lair. Rock the buckler & get shields to 4, then pump some fighting. Throw Icicle is alright but not really worth it imo, this char should have no problems w/ killdudes for the most part and you can just duck the stuff you have issues with.

EDIT: Also try and find a decent weapon on the ground somewhere

[Nod2003]

I guess what would be considered a decent weapon for an octopode? I have lost dozens of Op without a win.

[Nod2003]

Btw, those shrooms rock!

[njvack]

Throw Icicle is alright but not really worth it imo, this char should have no problems w/ killdudes for the most part and you can just duck the stuff you have issues with.

Icicle is really good and will make dealing with hydras and such a lot easier, especially on an Op who will have trouble tanking while ice beasts tear stuff up.

[Wark]

Ugly things change resistances/attack flavors periodically, so if you see one that's cold resistant you can probably just string it along for a while until it changes color.

They only do that if they're close to other ugly things, or to a contaminated player. Or if you use a wand of polymorph on them.

[njvack]

Also, ugly things only have rX+, so generally you can kill them by just throwing more elemental magic at them. Very ugly things are more annoying with pure elemental attacks, as they have both another pip of resistance and a bunch more HP.

[Nod2003]

And splat lived up to his name. Apparently shrooms are no match for a death yak pack.

[Turukano]

First of all:
a) octopodes are an interesting species
b) running around with 1 AC hurts, octopodes have a low winrate

There have been some discussions in this forum, e.g.

• Berder's melee octopode formula (Jan 2015)
• How to win a melee octopode on a streak? (Feb 2016)

Although Berder's topic is not up to date (e.g. Dithmenos' shadow step has changed) and I don't agree with everything the topic is interesting.


*******

Berder recommends long blades, I personally prefer polearms. As they have innate reaching you'll often get a free attack which is very welcome. Did you already start an OpFi with a trident? It's useful to carry a shield and a trident is a good overall starting weapon. And have a look if you can find a demon trident.

Another idea is to use your great stealth aptitude, pick up a good dagger and go the stabbing way.

Unarmed combat can finally be strong when you go for transmutations. Octopodes keep all their rings when they transform. Unfortunately, unarmed combat starts weak and it takes quite a while to get statue or dragon form running (which is very welcome.)


*******

Octopodes are hard to play but they are fun. Well, at least for me.

Good luck!

[Airwolf]

Yeah, you have to split packs of death yaks and fight them 1 on 1 (or avoid completely).

On your weapon question, a spear or trident would have been my first choice (reaching + 1-handed), unless something else's brand and enchantment excited me.

[njvack]

Shrooms + ice beasts (assuming you still had the IE) should be enough to take down a death yak. If you're gonna have allies, polearms are very good.

[Siegurt]

I assume the recommendation for long blades, is that the passive attack gives you more chances to get tentacle aux attacks, which are very good.

[Airwolf]

I think it was originally about long blades damage depending more on Dex at the time, which they don't any longer, and cross-training with short blades for stabs.

[njvack]

Wait... riposte doesn't trigger constriction damage, does it?

[Siegurt]

Wait... riposte doesn't trigger constriction damage, does it?

No, you don't get extra 'constrictions' but you do get grabs (which can result in normal constriction damage) and tentacle slaps which are nothing to sneer at.

In fact if you get a grab on a critter from riposte they'll take the first round of constriction before your next turn, so I guess it might be viewed as getting that round of constriction damage "early" (since it doesn't matter when you get the grab in during the round, whether it's on your turn or the monster's it's the same damage)

[Siegurt]

Wait... riposte doesn't trigger constriction damage, does it?

No, you don't get extra 'constrictions' but you do get grabs (which can result in normal constriction damage) and tentacle slaps which are nothing to sneer at.

In fact if you get a grab on a critter from riposte they'll take the first round of constriction before your next turn, so I guess it might be viewed as getting that round of constriction damage "early" (since it doesn't matter when you get the grab in during the round, whether it's on your turn or the monster's it's the same damage)

Looks like I'm wrong, you do get the message at least:

  Code:

The giant cockroach zombie misses you. You riposte. You hit the giant cockroach zombie.
You squeeze the giant cockroach zombie.
You destroy the giant cockroach zombie!