CIP: SpAs of Dithmenos

[aegolden]

Char dump:

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/aegolden/aegolden.txt

I'm really not sure where to go next with this character. I feel like maybe I've doomed this game through poor skill allocation because even though I'm supremely stealthy, in large packs of monsters *something* still usually wakes up/notices me, and at that point I don't have enough damage output to do much, maybe throw some needles at susceptible monsters, but mostly I'm just running away.

In general, this is about the point (first rune) where my squishier characters tend to die, so any advice is appreciated!

[le_nerd]

- Level 3.8 Fighting
+ Level 10.2 Short Blades
+ Level 5.7 Throwing
+ Level 14.4 Dodging
* Level 26.7 Stealth
+ Level 5.1 Shields
+ Level 0.8 Spellcasting
* Level 4.4 Invocations
+ Level 3.0 Evocations

Stop training EVERYTHING at once. If you have learned dazzling spray, there are likely to be some other hexes as well around. Confuse, ensorcelled hibernation, invisibility. Do a search for short blade&&brand, see if you have pain/electrocution/distortion lying around. Any demon blades? Double swords? Branded, enchanted scimitars? Those weapons can impove your killdudes considerably in the short run. Train hexes+spellcasting exclusively until you can actually use them to kill stuff. Stopp with spellcasting when you are at 6ish or so. In the meantime, use up the wands, paralysis etc should help you kill a few monsters until they run out.

If you have invisibilty, you win big, abuse the fuck out of it.
When you can actually kill stuff again, get shields to 7.xx (look up in buckler description) , train more fighting and dodging. If you go on using dagger, you dont need more dagger skill, stop at 10.

Yes, stealth 27 is fun, but you also need a way to kill stuff otherwise unless you want to do hit and run - dont neglect killdudes that long in the next game.

PS. in a pinch, dithmenos shadow form gives invisibility - you can kill stuff that way. Not efficient, not abusable, but something to keep in mind.

[CanOfWorms]

drop all your wands except for acid, confusion, heal wounds, iceblast and paralysis. get 6-10 evocations so you can land confuse/paralysis on a few things for stabs

learn passwall and petrify and train tmut/earth to 20 between them. a 10-10 split is ideal since you want more earth than tmut but for xp purposes you might end up with 13-7 or 12-8. find a staff of earth to increase its spellpower. now you have your stabbing spell; ideally you cast it against a monster at range until it's paralyzed and then shadow step to it for the kill. you can also use passwall to get stabs on monsters by landing right next to them while they're still asleep and stabbing them. if you find a book with iron shot then you're good, that's your endgame spell. also pump int for your remaining stat ups since 14 is low for bypassing mr

you also have minor magic/maledictions in a shop, pick up both. learn confuse, tukima's dance, blink and repel missiles from them. you want 10 hexes for confuse/tukima's and probably just some spellcasting for blink/repel missiles

also learn regeneration, animate dead, control undead, stone arrow, lrd. stone arrow and lrd in particular are your backup spells for things you can't petrify or hex

drop one of the rings of fire and the ring of stealth. put on the ring of +5 int once you have petrify online to boost its spellpower, until then put on magic resistance or cold resistance.

drop the acid dragon scales, your current armour is fine

[Yermak]

To advisers: don't give complicated spell advice to a new player with a character that wasn't caster at start. He pumped Dex and went all melee. Forget about spells, especially power-dependent. There is another way to play stabbers.

To the poster:
People here think stabber should use some other form of attack except for his dagger. Don't listen to them! You can win spellless while wielding short-blade.

• Weapon choice. "Do a search for short blade&&brand" - this is a good advice. You want either a rapier or a quickblade, daggers are only good for the extra stab damage, and with your current level of Stealth/SBlades you can one-shot any sleeping monster with other short-blade (except for some tough uniques like Nikola). Use your venom dagger in Spider Nest against vulnerable targets, then drop it. Find the best enchanted rapier and use scroll of brand weapon on it if it is not of electrocution. If you happen to find acquirement - use it to get a weapon, your dream is a quickblade of electrocution.
  Your shadow attacks will create enough possibilities for you to land some distraction stabs - that's how you kill tough monsters using short blade with Dithmenos.
• Fight style. In general: kill them asleep. Sometimes when you see a very dangerous group of monsters (being a spriggan you can try almost on everything except for groups with monsters with undodgeable ranged attacks or with plenty of range attackers) it's better to fail your stealth check voluntarily by going back and throwing a needle at the closest target. It can shout and wake up the others but it's much better when they wake up out of your line of sight.
  When stabbing fails: split, split and split. Unless you're absolutely sure you can tackle the whole group, lure monsters one by one away from the group and kill them in safety.
  If you're fighting some big threat and fail to dodge a very painful hit, disengage the fight, heal up and try again.
• Branch order. You're capable of getting Spider and Swamp runes now. Get them. Then proceed to D:15 and Vaults. Even though elves have plenty of branded short blades and bucklers they have too spiky damage output for your current health pool.
• Skill training. "Stop training EVERYTHING at once" - another good advice. If you don't have a quickblade, train Short Blades to 14 for rapier to have minimum delay. Then you can train Fighting, Dodging and Invocations, prioritize Dodging. Turn off Invocations once your panic button - Shadow Form - has an acceptable failure level. At some point train Armour up to 3.7 - it will give you one extra point of AC.
• Equipment.Steam dragon armour is a very good choice for this character. Amulet of faith is the best if you use Shadow Step often. Another option would be the amulet of regeneration. Swap in resistance rings when you're fighting a corresponding threat.

Good luck!

[papilio]

My advice on skills to your character:

You'll get total experiences around 500 kilo XP up to XL 20 (around 2 runes). This corresponds to around 43,600 skill points.
You'll get total experiences around 2 milion XP up to 5 rune win. This corresponds to around 100,000 skill points.

I would distribute 43,600 skill points until 2 runes (+initial 1,000 skill points of Assassin background, total 44,600) like this:

Fighting 9 (~3,200)
Short Blades 14 (~5,100) => Minimum delay of rapiers

Throwing 5.7 (~1,000) => because you already put here 1,000 SP

Armour 4.4 (~1,100) => Armour skill give +1AC/4.4lv for steam dragon armour.
Dodging 24 (~10,000)
Shields 7.2 (~2,500) => Nullify buckler penalty

Spellcasting 8 (~1,300)
Conjurations 1, Hexes 5, Charms 6, Necromancy 2, Translocation 3, Ice Magic 1, Air Magic 1 (~1,700 total)
=> Failure rates of regeneration 3%, blink 3%, repel missiles 2%, ensorcelled hibernation 3%, confuse 2%, animate skeleton 3%, dazzling spray 6% with INT 14 + no wizardry + no armour/shield spell penalty.
=> Yermak said you to forget about spells, but these spells are low-level easy spells and will help your game greatly with cheap cost of exp.

Invocation 13 (~5,000) => Stabilize Shadow form
Evocation 3 (~200) => because you already put here 200 SP
Stealth 27 (~12,500)

[VeryAngryFelid]

Minor correction, cloak is taken into account too so it is 22/6=3.7 skill levels in armour for 1 AC.

[papilio]

OK, then you'll save some SP in armours (4.4 -> 3.7) or put some more SP (4.4 -> 7.4).

Also, I forgot to mention spectral weapon spell. It is great. (You'll already get <2% failure for that spell with above skill distribution)
When I played SpEn, I killed everything in Vaults:5 and Zot:5
with my quick blade + spectral weapon + warp weapon combo. (But sadly, warp weapon spell is gone! Aww)


For weapons:
Rapiers are far better than quick blades, unless the brand of quick blade is distortion/electrocution or you're playing vine stalker.


If you seek 15-rune win (If not, never mind below) :
Raise throwing skills up to 18 (I think 18 is enough), enchant your blowgun to +9
and prepare needles with status effects (paralysis, confusion, sleeping).
Many fiends and hell/pan bosses are still vulnerable to these needles. Shoot needles and stab them!
Also, Spriggan's translocation apt is +4. Controlled Blink/Disjunction will greatly help you.

[aegolden]

YASD: Spark Wasps are bullshit: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/aegol ... 153847.txt

Thanks everyone for the advice, I was working on transitioning to hexes and utility spells and had built up enough skill points to make some of that pretty useful by clearing the rest of Orc and Lair. I never got invisibility, but was getting some extra stabs via ensorcelled hibernation and occasionally pass wall. I (thought I was) on my way to the gossamer rune when a random spark wasp on Spider:2 noticed me and then took me out in just a couple hits.

In retrospect I probably should have run back to the up stairs and found a different down stairs the moment I saw the spark wasp and maybe it wouldn't have noticed me. Maybe my consumables would have got me out of trouble here when I did try to run... but after it noticed me I think I was mostly screwed. It was faster than me (via blinkbolt) and took >50% of my health in the first hit. I suppose I might have realized that running was impossible and taken the 30% chance on ensorcelled hibernation, but I cleared a square when I first moved away from the wasp, giving me the impression that I *could* outrun it, at first.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Confuse had higher chance to work for the character though it would still be too unreliable of course.