CiP - Epic Shortbow HEWr of Dith, Extended Game imminent

[SchwaWarrior]

Hi guys! I need the help of the forums for this one.

I have a wonderful, XL27 High Elf Warper right now, the best Warper I've ever played by far, and it means a lot to me because I've wanted to play a successful Warper for ages and now I finally have. I would like to win a full 15-Rune sweep this time, my second one ever if I succeed, and first ever with a High Elf (my other one was with a Demonspawn Abyssal Knight).

Here's the rundown. This guy is really really good with bows, and is using Dithmeinos, whos shadow-mimic passive ability makes him even better with bows. He's also skilled in Short Blades, not quite as much but enough to melee anything (even Orbs of Fire and Ancient Liches) and win, as long as he doesn't do anything stupid. For the majority of the game I've been using an artefact +8 Cutlass with multiple bonuses (such as +Inv for stabbing and a couple crucial resistances), an artefact +9 Shortbow of Frost with an MR+ bonus, and an artefact Leather Armour with a Slaying bonus to make both those weapons even better. I have not used any Conjurations except Mephitic Cloud a while back, because I haven't needed any. Melee and Missile damage is the way this guy gets things done. So all my spells are support and defense only: the obvious Haste, the melee-centric Spectral Weapon, the ranged-centric Portal Projectile whenever I want to pick off a baddie hiding behind other baddies, the defensive bonuses from Phase Shift (coupled with Dithmeinos's Umbra aura the evasiveness is even better) and the recently-picked-up Ozo's Armour and Condensation Shield, and to be true to my Warper roots, I mastered Disjunction with as low as 6% fail rate and this helps me attack with my bow while staying safe, and both Blink and Controlled Blink so that I can jump around and keep firing from any angle I desire. As a niche form of additional support, I have Summon Forest, since it has good synergy with my high Translocations skill, and I can use it to lay down a stage hazard if I'm fighting a horde and need some extra cover or distractions. Additionally I had Shadow Creatures for a while but scrapped it to free up some spell levels. I still have the Butterflies if I need to protect myself from ranged attackers that out-gun me; these helped a ton in the Slime Pits vs. Acid Blobs for instance.

I have beaten the Spider Nest, the Swamp, the Slime Pits and the Vaults. The remaining runes are in the Abyss, Pandemonium, the Hells, and of course the dreaded Tomb of Ancients.

I'm about to enter the Extended Game and I could use some people's opinions.

I have a ton of extremely good jewellery, but in the entire game, Resist Mutation is not one of them. No sources of it have been generated yet. And, I'd really like to take on Pandemonium next, but am worried; Summon Butterflies won't protect me from Malmutators 100% of the time, and it's not like Neqoxecs and Cacodemons ONLY exist in Mnoleg's pad, they're everywhere in Pan. I do have several potions of Cure Mutation but they are a highly valuable, highly finite source of protection and will eventually be gone.

I do have rF+++ and rC+++ and probably some means to acquire rN+++ though, so another choice would be to do the Hells first and wait on Pan. Malmutators aren't as huge there as they are in Pan; most of the Hells threats are brute force, via Torment and Hellfire, and as long as I play smart and cautiously I think I can take it. Shadow Form being Torment-immune might also help tremendously (and did you know you can still attack with your Bow for 100% damage in Shadow Form, unlike with melee attacks? It's amazing and it's what won me the victory against Geyron, who had some Tormentors in tow this time), though it is a massive Piety drain and I will only get limited use out of it (as in, I can't spam it the way I could spam, say, Lichform if I had it).

I also have not touched the Abyss even once this game yet. I was hoping to do it in the same run as Pandemonium, by escaping into the Abyss and doing it all in one round. But that's not super necessary.

What do you guys think? Anything I should be thinking about that I haven't been?

Here's part of the Log file below. I swear, if I win this one I will write the coolest Victory Post story, and actually finish it this time.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-1573-g47cdaed (webtiles) character file.

SchwaWarrior the Portalist (High Elf Warper)      Turns: 120032, Time: 10:35:50

HP 201/201       AC 19     Str 23      XL: 27
MP  47/47        EV 24     Int 22      God: Dithmenos [*****.]
Gold 1728        SH  0     Dex 21      Spells: 16 memorised,  1 level left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis +     a - +8 cutlass "Xuoweuduyd" {slice, +Inv +Fly rC+ rN+}
rCold  + + +     Clarity  .     v - +3 leather armour of the Trout {rC+ Slay+5 Stlth-}
rNeg   + + .     rCorr    .     (no shield)
rPois  +         rRot     .     w - +2 helmet {rF+}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     c - +1 cloak of the Game of Kings {rElec rC+ Str+2}
SustAb +         Warding  +     H - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     C - +2 pair of boots
Gourm  .                        p - macabre finger necklace {Ward rN+}
MR     ++++.                    s - ring of Xom's Best Wishes {rElec rPois rC+ MR+ Dex+1}
                                r - ring "Gruwufaorph" {SustAb MR+ Int+2 SInv}
                                t - ring "Yphuny" {Wiz rF++}

@: wreathed by umbra, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, very
stealthy
A: yellow scales 1
a: Shadow Step, Shadow Form, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility, Evoke Flight
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, gossamer


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Dithmenos.
Dithmenos is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and seen 62 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Volcano.

You have collected 7548 gold pieces.
You have spent 5820 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - the +8 cutlass "Xuoweuduyd" (weapon) {slice, +Inv +Fly rC+ rN+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you turn invisible.
   It lets you fly.
 b - the +9 shortbow of Invincibility {freeze, MR+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It turns projectiles fired from it into bolts of frost.
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 q - the +2 blowgun "Pnunwoomo" {evade, rElec}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+5 to EV).
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
Missiles
 d - 10 curare-tipped needles
 e - 3 throwing nets (quivered)
 x - 18 arrows of dispersal
 y - 83 poisoned arrows
 z - 543 arrows
Armour
 c - the +1 cloak of the Game of Kings (worn) {rElec rC+ Str+2}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 v - the +3 leather armour of the Trout (worn) {rC+ Slay+5 Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 w - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 C - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 H - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
Magical devices
 f - a wand of digging (10)
 l - a wand of paralysis (19)
 o - a wand of hasting (6)
 B - a wand of cold (5)
 O - a wand of heal wounds (6)
Comestibles
 i - 15 bread rations
 L - 7 meat rations
Scrolls
 g - a scroll of blinking
 j - 22 scrolls of remove curse
 m - a scroll of magic mapping
 E - 5 scrolls of identify
 J - 3 scrolls of fog
 K - 8 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 p - the macabre finger necklace (around neck) {Ward rN+}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   
   [amulet of warding]
   
   It may prevent the melee attacks of summoned creatures.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 r - the ring "Gruwufaorph" (left hand) {SustAb MR+ Int+2 SInv}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of sustain abilities]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 s - the ring of Xom's Best Wishes (right hand) {rElec rPois rC+ MR+ Dex+1}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 t - the ring "Yphuny" (on amulet) {Wiz rF++}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   
   It improves your spell success rate.
   It greatly protects you from fire.
 P - an uncursed amulet of clarity
Potions
 h - 7 potions of resistance
 k - 18 potions of curing
 n - 6 potions of heal wounds
 u - a potion of agility
 A - 2 potions of cure mutation {!q}
 D - 5 potions of restore abilities
 G - 2 potions of might
 I - 2 potions of magic
Books
 M - Lee's Reference Book on Earthen Arcane Weapons
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Magic Dart                         Conjuration                  1
   Stone Arrow                        Conjuration/Earth            3
   Throw Icicle                       Conjuration/Ice              4
   Bolt of Magma                      Conjuration/Fire/Earth       5
   Orb of Destruction                 Conjuration                  7
Miscellaneous
 Q - the horn of Geryon
 R - a stone of tremors
 S - a fan of gales
 T - a phial of floods
 U - a legendary deck of destruction {Degeneration, drawn: 3}
 V - a legendary deck of destruction {Venom}
 W - an ornate deck of summonings {Foxfire}
 X - an ornate deck of summonings {Foxfire}
 Y - an ornate deck of defence {the Shadow}
 Z - an ornate deck of wonders {the Shadow, drawn: 1}

   Skills:
 - Level 20.0 Fighting
 - Level 14.0(14.3) Short Blades
   Level 7.0(9.6) Long Blades
   Level 10.5(11.6) Axes
   Level 11.3(12.1) Polearms
 - Level 21.0 Bows
 - Level 3.0 Throwing
 - Level 1.0 Armour
 - Level 13.0 Dodging
 - Level 16.0 Stealth
 - Level 20.0 Spellcasting
   Level 4.0 Conjurations
 - Level 3.0 Hexes
 - Level 12.1 Charms
 - Level 9.0 Summonings
 - Level 3.0 Necromancy
 - Level 22.0 Translocations
 * Level 5.1 Ice Magic
 - Level 12.0 Air Magic
   Level 3.0 Poison Magic
 - Level 10.0 Invocations
 - Level 11.0 Evocations


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
c - Condensation Shield   Ice            #####.....   1%          4    None
d - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ######..     1%          3    None
e - Haste                 Chrm           ######..     1%          6    ###....
q - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          6    ###....
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None
w - Phase Shift           Tloc           #######...   0%          5    None
x - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######....   1%          3    None
z - Portal Projectile     Tloc           ######       0%          3    None
A - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          0%          2    None
E - Silence               Hex/Air        ######....   1%          5    None
F - Summon Forest         Summ/Tloc      ######....   1%          5    None
J - Disjunction           Tloc           #######...   1%          8    ######.
M - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          1%          7    #####..
Q - Abjuration            Summ           ######....   1%          3    None
S - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ######..     1%          1    None
W - Apportation           Tloc           #######...   0%          1    None

Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations:
You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2).


[Patashu]

(and did you know you can still attack with your Bow for 100% damage in Shadow Form, unlike with melee attacks? It's amazing and it's what won me the victory against Geyron, who had some Tormentors in tow this time)

Wow, how did I not think of this before

Also, re: malmutators, you have controlled blink, so you could always just controlled blink away from them if you need more time to make butterflies/whatever

[Konedar]

HE of Dith is clearly a strong combo (sbl, lbl, bow, stealth and conj synergize well with Dith and HE have amazing aptitudes at all of them) and one of my favourite but oddly enough I never went with bows... It sounds like a great idea but I'm not sure it will not be changed, it sounds kind of weird that you get a malus to melee and magic but not ranged...

Now my feedback is:

A: I'm sorry but your shortbow isnt really amazing, a longbow of velocity would be much much better...

B: if I were you I would do Tomb first, it's not that hard and has tons of xp and loot. Except the rare uniques there are no surprises there so if you know what you are doing it's safe. But I remember that the first few times I went there it seemed horribly hard. You could search some posts with advices about it if you aren't experienced yet.

C: You are probably too worried about mutations, with ranged attacks and translocations you can minimize the danger and if you run out of curemut pots (use them only if you have some nasty mutation and 3+ mutations) a few levels of zig should get you more of them.

D: You definetely don't need rF+++, rC+++ and rN+++. 1 pip is usually enough, 2 are nice in some situations, 3 is really unnecessary.

[SchwaWarrior]

I died.

I ran out of food.

I don't think this has ever happened to me. I ran out of permafood halfway through sweeping HolyPan, had to rush out with barely any health left while Very Hungry and Glowing, then on arrival to the next Pan floor a pack of Demonspawn and a Balrug with an Elec Demon Whip finished me off in a dozen turns or so.

What this made me realize was that I have very rarely entered Pan with a non-Jiyva character, because usually I've never had to worry about food down there. Good night nurse.

What I learned though was that yes, that shortbow wasn't as great as I thought for Extended, and for that matter neither was the Cutlass. Through Pan I stumbled across a nearly identical +8 Longsword randart, with the same resistances, with the Holy brand instead of the Vorpal brand. When I made the switch, even with only 12 in Long Blades instead of 22 in Short Blades my attacks did MUCH more damage.

I never once found a good Longbow in this playthrough; I had just assumed that a +8 Shortbow was better than a +1 or +2 Longbow, because the Shortbow was +8 and 8 is a lot more than 1 or 2. I figured the difference in base damage wasn't that notable. But, considering my battle with Cerebov, which was a shootout that took several hundred turns and over 100 arrows fired, and left me victorious but down to the wire with only 3/205 HP and zero Mana left, I'm thinking that the extra damage points would have made a massive difference if I did have a Longbow.

Also, killing Ice Fiends with a Frost bow was stressful.

Anyway, this was my new best score Runes wise with a High Elf! 8 runes this time, up from 7. I'd like to get 15 at least once before the devs remove High Elves entirely.

EDIT: Oh and on the thing with resistances, I was told to NEVER enter the Hells without maximum resistance as possible or you're in big trouble, hence why I was concerned about them.

[duvessa]

...Who told you that?

[Patashu]

EDIT: Oh and on the thing with resistances, I was told to NEVER enter the Hells without maximum resistance as possible or you're in big trouble, hence why I was concerned about them.

Most of the damage in hells is hellfire and torment which resistances don't help with.
Antaeus is probably the best candiate for getting resistances before fighting, and you don't even have to fight him anyway. (Also, you can Curare him.)

Also, killing Ice Fiends with a Frost bow was stressful.

I'm pretty sure missiles of frost will do 0 damage to ice fiends, since unlike melee weapons of freezing, missiles of frost are pure cold damage.

[duvessa]

In 0.15, missiles of frost are not pure cold damage. I believe they work like melee weapons of freezing now (I think they even apply after AC now, instead of before).

[Patashu]

In 0.15, missiles of frost are not pure cold damage. I believe they work like melee weapons of freezing now (I think they even apply after AC now, instead of before).

Wow, everything I know is now a lie

[Magipi]

I ran out of food.

This might have something to do with it:

  Code:

Gained mutation: [You have a fast metabolism.] [mutagenic meat]

It seems that mutation roulette did not exactly had the result you wanted. Another classy example of ruining a good character with that stupid game.

  Code:

A: blurry vision 1, clarity, deformed body, fast metabolism 1, frail 2, low mp

[Konedar]

How did you manage to run out of food? Did you spam high level spells? On a side note why do you have so high str?!? I would have aimed at around 24-27 dex and rest in int. Str is doing nothing for you. You don't need it for burden because you are playing trunk, you don't need it for armor because you use light, and for damage it really doesn't give you much more than dex (especially when using sbl, lbl and bows).
I can't imagine how did you manage to survive hundreds of turns against Cerebov and finally kill him with that bow. rF+++ certanly helped there, but it would have been definetely safer to just grab the rune and run (and with your translocations it would have been really easy). I know that killing every boss is more fun but dying is less fun.
You should have enchanted a long bow, you don't need an artefact, where did you dump your EW? Both your cutlass and short bow were artefacts so you should had enough EW for a long bow. It's not rare to find a branded long bow and you could anyway have branded one.

[SchwaWarrior]

How did you manage to run out of food? Did you spam high level spells?

My only two spells that caused hunger were Controlled Blink and Disjunction. I did use them a fair bit, yes. I spent a fair amount of time resting from battles too, 'cause I try to kill everything.

Also I did not have Fast Metabolism at all for most of the game. When I entered both the Hells and Pan I had only one mutation and it was Yellow Scales (+2 AC). I also had like 6 or 7 Cure Mut potions for a lot of the game, it was so weird how many there were just laying around in the main dungeon.

On a side note why do you have so high str?!? I would have aimed at around 24-27 dex and rest in int. Str is doing nothing for you. You don't need it for burden because you are playing trunk, you don't need it for armor because you use light, and for damage it really doesn't give you much more than dex (especially when using sbl, lbl and bows).

All I knew is that "more STR = more damage". I don't know anything about math forumlas. Oh, someone said that every 4 points of INT = 1 more point of Spell Power for all spells, but that's the extent of my knowlegde.

I even tried asking about weapons and stats in chat once and said that "it'd make more sense to increase DEX instead of STR to do more damage with my Quick Blade" and they corrected me and said "no, basically just STR is damage and the STR/DEX Weapon Balance thing is obscure and don't worry about it". This was a year or two back, I think.

I can't imagine how did you manage to survive hundreds of turns against Cerebov and finally kill him with that bow. rF+++ certanly helped there, but it would have been definetely safer to just grab the rune and run (and with your translocations it would have been really easy). I know that killing every boss is more fun but dying is less fun.

If I don't kill all the super-bosses in the game then I feel like it's an incomplete run. But you have a point about not dying. The last 12 turns of combat were absolutely terrifying because every shot I took he could have Firestormed me and ended the game, but chose not to.

Oh and what's up with Cerebov being immune to Silence!? It fucked me up pretty bad when I threw down a Silence and he kept Firestorming me and summoning Brimstone Fiends anyway and I couldn't escape! I wish there would've been a way to check beforehand.

You should have enchanted a long bow, you don't need an artefact, where did you dump your EW? Both your cutlass and short bow were artefacts so you should had enough EW for a long bow. It's not rare to find a branded long bow and you could anyway have branded one.

I think I only had 3 or 4 back at my stash; after a while I just stopped picking them up because they weren't any use. I was just doing so well with those weapons (until Hells and Pan) so it didn't even cross my mind that I'd even need to switch. Being able to kill things like Stone Giants in 2 shots or Ancient Liches in, like, 5, was so amazing that I thought I would do fine against the Pan Lords.

...Who told you that?

Wiki, I think. Said something like "rF+++ is absolutely necessary in Gehenna, rF++ a strict minimum, don't even attempt Gehenna with anything less" and the same thing for the other Hells and other resistances. Again, this was a year or two back. I hadn't bothered to check if they changed it because the information stuck in my head.

[Sprucery]

Wiki, I think.

Who would've guessed?

[cerebovssquire]

All demons are immune to silence (though Geryon's horn isn't).

I would rarely, if ever, raise a stat based on melee damage output; the relevant factors tend to be ranged weapons, spell power/success, EV, and encumbrance penalties from armour, in no particular order (however, note that reducing encumbrance penalties will contribute to spells and EV).

For the hells, a more reasonable rule of thumb is that you want at least a single resistance pip of rF/rC for gehenna/cocytus. A second pip can help but don't trade it for things like EV/AC or slaying; torment and especially hellfire are bigger problems, and AC/EV are still good in extended (against ranged attacks, including elemental bolts and iron shot/crystal spear, and melee).