Insular Community wrote:Some new guy arrives on the forum, posts some idea (one thats doesnt step on the "design philosophy" mind you) he thinks is cool, ofc it is not fleshed out, not everyone has played this game for 30 years + is a dev himself + knows how to code it himself. Might as well make your own game if you went that far, but that's not the goal is it. Anyway, First reaction the 2-5 diehard players who have been into this game for 30 years show up and hound him down like he is some sort of vermin... "this idea is so so bad." No explanaitions given, just subjective criticism of the worst sort. I would be kinda salty too after a response like that too, why bother.
Where has this occurred recently? In the
exchange that spawned this particular thread, you had dpeg, duvessa, and Quazifuji take time to write some substantive feedback; duvessa's tone was perhaps curt, but not rudely so.
After the OP dismissed these very real contributions, some other posters became snippy.
For people who really want to discuss the game seriously, I don't think it is too much to ask that the person who wishes to contribute something to the game reads the post entitled
"You Must Read This Before Posting in GDD", which is stickied at the top of the Game Design forum, and/or read some of the other currently active threads in GDD to get a sense of the kind and level of conversation that happens there. Some highlights from the stickied thread:
Note that this forum is not where Crawl is being actively developed, and is not farmed for ideas by developers. Visit the dev wiki to see the actual development process. However some developers do read GDD and an idea posted here does have a chance, however small, of making it into the game.
Anything posted here will receive criticism that is sometimes quite harsh, so be prepared. If you want to minimise your chances of being criticised and increase the chances that your idea will be taken seriously, spend plenty of time familiarising yourself with other proposals both successful and failed, and read and understand every point in the list that follows.
When (not if) someone criticises your idea, accept it. Listen. Adapt your proposal. Admit when you're wrong. Do not belligerently make the same case over and over. [emphasis in the original, nota bene!] Basic etiquette and the forum rules still apply. If you feel a criticism is personal or unwarranted, use the report button or pm a moderator. Be advised that the forum benefits from a certain amount of astringent criticism of new proposals, and that whining on your part will weaken or destroy your case.
If you have an opinion or idea about the game and you put it in a form acceptable for GDD, it will nearly always get an honest hearing and consideration, and while that may be less than some would like, it is frankly a lot more than you find on most message boards.
What makes
me salty is that people somehow think that merely having an opinion or idea about DCSS entitles them, not just to the due consideration they deserve (which is fine to expect), but immediate implementation with no questions asked. This shows
staggering contempt for the people who actually volunteer their time to code this game, and one who adopts such a contemptuous attitude should not be surprised when that attitude is echoed back to them.
Btw the only person who posted in that thread and is also a developer is dpeg, who was supportive of hearing out the OP's ideas from the beginning, even when Gadrel deleted his suggestions after his first post was moved to CYC (because it literally was just two or three very brief (like the entire post was maybe 80 words in total) suggestions for spells without anything else).
It is a minority for sure, but some posters put up a very unpolished idea on GDD and then get angry when, like, everyone doesn't trip over themselves to give the OP a bunch of high-fives and affirmation. That's not what GDD is for, sorry. On the other hand, people who take the constructive ("negative" =/= "non-constructive") criticism well, nearly always find a patient and thoughtful audience. And if you really think you see a case where that's not happening, well, that's what the report button, or private messages (to mods or others), are for.