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TL:DR; Use the vamp morning star until you can feel it wearing off in effectiveness, then switch. This sounds like good advice. I'd wanna wield a staff every once in a while to boost conjurations since A) this is a Vehumet GrFi and B) your INT isn't spectacularly good for conjurations. There's some...

One of those "which is the better weapon" questions ... I have the +4 morningstar of Bodily Humours (weapon) {vamp, rC+} a +7 eveningstar of freezing Of course, the eveningstar does far more damage. I just don't know whether the vampirism effect offsets that or not. Just from intuition (by...

Please read what ontoclasm wrote above. You are defending the exploration aspect, but what you call "remove decisions" does create new decisions instead. It's not clear, and a personal matter, which decisions anyone likes better. Well, I actually have an easier time understanding the reas...

Yeah, I looked lightning spires up in Gretell in the mean time. They also don't do that much damage, 3d6, IIRC. At least you can position them, so that their bolt bounces (or so I seem to recall). I'm pretty sure that I had one characters that could melee orbs of fire with a quickblade of freezing j...

I like to try out different build strategies rather than to stick with one that I know to work. The branches can have a very different level of danger for different characters. So, I sometimes go into a branch, notice through experience that my char is not ready yet. Then I have to figure out what i...

One of the best things is that I can leave it running in an xterm while pretending to actually do some work.

Heh, maybe I am overthinking it. I'm a little obsessed with this build currently and feel the urge to know ... -- I just remembered that I also found Tukima's, so I learned that and forgot Ignite Poison. After that I'm back to get better Fighting and Dodging. Good point about Summoning, though!

EDIT: Ooooops! My apologies, I accidentally posted in the wrong forum. This is again an experimental build for me; I'm currently interested in KoWz that have decent melee -- preferably with decent AC, too -- and are strong in Hexes. Nevertheless I'd like to make the best out of this character (that'...

I do think "you've won the game once you reached Lair" is hyperbole, otherwise nobody would regard "Death's Door" being worth the spell slots. However, I don't remember one single death after that point that wasn't my own fault, even if that fault was just "lack of knowledge...

Aw, c'mon. I mean, I'm aware that debating stuff in CYC isn't going to affect the future of crawl. Nor whether tabstormCrawl (which might be an excellent game on its own right) will ever come to be. We're just discussing. Love the idea of a god that makes maps smaller, though. Ceterum censeo, I'd li...

No gain, either. Just another bit of flavour lost.

archaeo wrote:If, for example, TabstormCrawl or Dungeon Crawl No Soup ended up evolving into a different game altogether, that'd be fine and rad, in my opinion.

It is. I just happen to like some of the quirkiness of the current one.

EDIT: Indeed, RIP, hammers. That was one of the little quirks that I liked.

It's not so much that I have a problem with any singular proposition. It's more that in my opinion the gestalt of all of them together indicates a different game. ToME did start as an Angband variant. Playing crawl, I do enjoy those situations most that are like a tactical puzzle that needs to be so...

I'd say Shock is one of the better lvl1 damaging spells. Maybe not quite exactly as good as Freeze, but I personally regard it as a close second. It may do up to 7d9 damage per mp, only half of which is resisted by AC (according to Siegurt). Admittedly that is rare, but 2d9 is the norm and 3d9 and 4...

High powered Airstrike is good, though indeed situational. I. e. something you want, but only if you have decent air skill for other reasons.

(What's with the idea that AE is a weak start ...?)

I would probably do something like this if I was making a "variant" (it would actually be pretty dissimilar to the current game, so it might be better to say "a game inspired by crawl") ... That would be an entirely different game. I'm sure a good one and may even a better one; ...

So, let's post things that would make the game harder in an interesting way, especially things that will never go in anyway since this is CYC. By "interesting" I'm thinking of things that aren't just tests of patience. I'll start: Smaller floors would make luring enemies to cleared areas ...

Interesting. What I'm reading is that monster EV is doubled for EV rolls and that the average of two rolls is taken. So if the bot lists 10 EV for a monster, the roll is actually 2d9. Unfortunately, what with the way player to_hit is calculated, I forgot too much about stochastics to be able to calc...

FWIW, I found my Dg experience quite enjoyable and one of my smoother, more hastle-free runs. I wouldn't have used a shield, though, got a better weapon, instead. And raised Str more to help with spell success in medium armour. But if that morning star of protection really is your best mace, then, y...

That debate about displaying exact numbers got me interested in exact numbers. So, I finally started code diving. I need a little help though with regard to melee attacks. I find the overall structure of melee_attack.cc hard to grasp. What interests me right now is: after player accuracy is calculat...

This began as an experimentation. I wanted to play some more with Hexes (hence Sif Muna). Branching into Translocation was something that just happened. But I really started to like this guy and I fully intended to win at this point. So, this YASD bugs me somewhat. And I thought he needs a proper ob...

byrel wrote:You don't have to kill everything.

But, but, but .... yeah, that might be the deeper problem. I kill too much already with my non-stabber builds.

Not sure why you are having that problem, unless you are using a race with an exceptionally low stealth aptitude or attempting to stab in heavy plate. It is quite straightforward to get a high stealth character who can also melee, provided you skill properly. 1) Get min delay for a shortblade, put ...

FWIW: Personally, I find the formulas regarding weapon damage, AC, EV etc somewhat too arcane for me (for the time being) to be much interested in exact numbers. Me, personally. Please don't flame me. I'm going along with a "gut feeling" of how a particular character can withstand attacks ...

Thanks, but I should have been clearer: If I invest just a little in melee, I still wake up most of the dungeon level in the long run, I have to melee a lot and because my char is not very good at it, it's annoying. If I invest a lot in melee, the whole dungeon wakes up anyways and I'm effectively p...

My few attempts at stabbers have been unfruitful. So, I'd appreciate a few pointers. When I see a monster that I'd like to stab, but don't want it to wake up right now, my first move is to drop an exclusion zone around it and back away.* Once I've explored around it from all angles, I decide whether...

I am a bad player with book Te. When I tried to branch early, I suffered from low HP and AC so it was easier to continue being a caster (Te have good aptitudes for that). Or maybe your "early" is later than my "early". If I play book Tengu I use the edge I have in aptitudes to r...

Reading back (including who thanked whom for what type of comment, etc.), I'm getting the vibe that there's something different going on here. I don't know what, but I have a gut feeling that I don't want to care about it. So, I'm retreating from this DEFE vs. TeFE discussion. The point I moderately...

Have you played Te? They don't have speed 9 when encountering Ogres around a corner. Also you should not fight a hobgoblin as weaponless DEFE, just retreat a couple of tiles and you will get 1 MP back (mana restore rate depends on max MP, another reason why DEFE is superior to TeFE). Dude, I've exp...

Isn't it obvious that DEFE is better than TeFE??? +50% more MP, you have much lower chance to die to that pack of jackals you see after opening first door. Sure. But you also have and average of +2 in your conjurations+fire aptitudes and because of speed 9 a much lower chance to die to that ogre yo...

No, they're not. EDIT: Tengus also have -2 HP. Are they also a weak race, or do their flight, auxiliary attacks, and good weapon apps make up for the low HP? I'm guessing that they are better than DE (I've never played either). Even if going with Duvessa's classification, they're essentially speed 9...

One thing that I would like to mention, though: I have no idea of how exactly ranged combate compares to damaging spells with regard to XP investment. I've played characters using either, but I don't know the numbers. Anyways: If winning were my only goal -- it isn't, since I get my kick out of craw...

This is about staying ahead of the killing curve while at the same time adding options for surviving or avoiding threats above the current average threat level. And training two levels of skill does a lot more to get there for a character with 8 skill who is at/behind the killing curve than a chara...

Raising your weapon skill from 3 to 5 is huge. From 8 to 10? While still very good, not quite so huge. You should check your assumptions. The most important effect of training weapon skill is usually the reduction in delay, and the relative benefit of that usually increases as you get closer to min...

I'm starting to develop an infatuation with Slow in early D and Lair. For just a little skill investment, you gain what against many early threats is for most practical and tactical purposes effectively a 2MP glow-less haste. Obviously, I'm talking about one on one encounters and about being able to...

As for Haste: Instead of making it higher level, I'd rather like to see it's functionality split: One spell that increases movement speed (Swiftness' big brother, stacking with it) and another spell that increases attack speed (Finesse's little brother). As it is, it's a spell that I cast both when ...

Yes, diminishing returns on physical skills tends to start after 2 runes. Let me rephrase my original statement: The higher your skill, e.g. your weapon skill, the less you gain in terms of survivabilty for every skill point. That starts early: Raising your weapon skill from 3 to 5 is huge. From 8 ...

Sandman25 wrote:Yes, I train stealth when training it becomes more efficient than everything else (spells, fighting, dodging, weapon at min delay). I love stealth in extended, it's awesome there.

Ah, sorry. I see that I missed that you were talking about early game. I agree with you, then.

I train stealth for Na early game but I avoid it with normal speed hybrids, early game I need attack skills and later I need to hybridize which is dangerous so I cannot afford wasting XP. I do train stealth all the game with casters when they can't become hybrids (Op/Fe is typical here). You can ge...

I like to have casters with good melee. So, this time I decided to challenge myself and went the other way around, starting with a fighter and branching into conjurations by worshpping Vehumet. In general I feel that I'm doing fine. Or: not worse than with other characters. I feel that I have to kee...

Yeah, as I suspected. I decided that I havn't won often enough (this is my 6th win only), so I kept the SDA and raised Dex. This character was a lot of fun and once I got past the early game it was rather easy play. Luck with armour and weapon played a role, obviously, but I think I rather like Demi...

Oh, the caprice of the RNG. Either I find nothing better than a +2 ring mail, or I get two really good pieces of armour: +9 shadow dragon armour of the Nine Lives {rF+ rC++ Stlth++++} +8 orange crystal plate armour {Archmagi, Int+3 Clar SustAb} The CPA I found only recently. My plan so far was (afte...

Nah, I meant: Getting more AC in general, not specifically for OoF. The way I'm playing this build, Sif Muna doesn't do a lot for me, since I end up meleeing most things after some point. I suppose, the advice for dealing with Oof would be: ⋅ Wear that damn rF++ ring! ⋅ Find an...

This one died in Zot 5 through boredom and lack of paying attention. Using a scroll of fog or a scroll of blinking, or maybe even casting swiftness earlier would have saved me. Ye cats! I wasn't wearing that rF++ ring! Otherwise I'm a bit dismayed that orbs of fire are such a problem with this build...

CONGRATULATIONS! Did you start with Zin? I find it hard to get a Zin Fighter rolling; the initial lack of an early problem-solving button like Heroics or Berserk makes otherwise trivial encounters a life-or-death situation... Recite is kinda iffy about whether it actually helps you with anyhing and...

"I am a sexy shoeless god of war!" http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html My first win with more than three runes. And my fifth win overall. Maybe I'm starting to learn the ropes in the late game. I hope so, at least. I don't recall any situation after Lair where I think I made a dum...

This is the the character from this thread here: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14065 Not much to say, except that Zin is great and that I very much enjoyed this run. Sanctuary was a real help at times and I would have died a couple of times with another god. Sure, with anot...

I hope this hasn't been suggested before and I hope I'm not starting another "Let's redesign Sif Muna"-thread. I like Sif Muna essentially as she is, though minor tweaks are possible, notwithstanding. I like the idea behind Sif Muna's protection from miscast effects and I would like to see...

Yes, three runes. So I branded the quick blade. Thank you!

I already mentioned this on ##crawl, but it got me thinking again ... I have a HaFi of Kiku, wearing +3 PDA. The RNG decided to confuse me with good weapons, too: I have a plain +5 quick blade and a +2 demon blade of pain (!) -- and I haven't yet used Kiku's final gift. Short blades skill is already...

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