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Whirlwind only works against adjacent monsters. It's not a gigantic leap to say that changing its damage isn't going to change that. I suppose then that the gigantic leap is saying that a spammable passive form of attack that works on adjacent monsters is fundamentally broken. I'm making the argume...

But whirlwind and wall jump aren't like lunge, you're explicitly incentivized to whirlwind and wall jump against adjacent monsters. This is why they are fundamentally broken as free abilities, and you can't fix them by throwing AUTs and multipliers at them. That's a gigantic leap you have taken the...

If one path is clearly better than the others, there's no actual meaningful decision being made, just different keypresses. So, if you whirlwind till you slow the monster, then Tab, that has no more interesting decisions than if you simply whirlwind all the time. Therefore, I don't see what exactly...

Please please please someone get a webtiles branch up and running for this

The 150% delay would not help with the escape potential of wall jump. It doesn't matter (for normal speed monsters, which are the vast majority of monsters the player encounters) whether you can move 2 steps in 1.5 turns or 1 turn; you can still escape reliably. You have a point, but I disagree wit...

Whirlwind and wall jump ruin the god. The notion that free martial attacks should be, by default, better than regular attacks is absolutely perverse and results in autofight being replaced by alternating two movement keys. That is horrible gameplay and the elephant in the room and people need to st...

There's a huge advantage to martial attacks that should be obvious but everyone here is somehow either pretty much ignoring it or even trying to sell it as a disadvantage : The ability to combine multiple attacks into one action. This is because monsters do not act. The player acts, and monsters re...

Theme-wise I could see it going either way: what you said, or their bones are too brittle, like SteelNeuron said. In terms of gameplay, UC is different enough from weapon combat that having it be a different number is often justifiable. I think I'll keep low UC and throwing, because I want to conve...

theclanless wrote:So, I made another spriggan, and, I am getting speed wiffs with a demon blade at attack speed .6, so something is rotten in denmark with the code. Hehe

It's fine, it's not a perfect division

there is a random component too.

In this species, I don't see the value of the following apt choices: Thanks for taking an in depth look :). With the context of what you said before, I agree with you. Most melee +1, staves +0, short blades +0: what's interesting about being very slightly less good at two seemingly-random weapon ty...

Reap will immediately target the next closest living creature, and it will continue to target enemies until nothing in LOS remains alive. This sounds like it has a nasty interaction with plants, given how they tend to be distributed. Should probably exclude them too. Yeah, those are (or should be) ...

From a few different threads, I think people have come to badly misunderstand what makes "flat apts" desirable on a species -- it seems like most people are understanding it as "+0 apts across the board are best" (very incorrect) or "all aptitudes being identical is best&qu...

It's surprising to see that the spooky skeleton species has a -3 necromancy aptitude. Anyway, the overall aptitude spread seems pretty flat, with the highest being +1, which doesn't really make for an exciting race(see:Barachians) even if they have a nice gimmick. Maybe have like Armour +3, shields...

Glad to hear this!

The god is still on a somewhat unstable period (and work needs to be done about balance), but posts like this are very encouraging. Hopefully we will fine tune it into something great.

I'll also chime in against the slash/blunt resistances/weakness. A few reasons why: ⋅ It's a distinction that's otherwise ignored by the game, besides hydras. While it's generally pretty intuitive to know whether something is slashing or blunt, I agree with nago that the cognitive load i...

While I get that gameplay trumps flavour, I think it is important for the world of DCSS to have some consistency. It's not only about how the gods "feel" about having an undead/demonic worshipper. These gods actively give you tools to harm undead and demonic creatures en masse. It wouldn't...

Nice work! I like the idea of reap, but I think it will not be too difficult to ensure you only fight one monster at a time due to kiting and luring. An ability like real needs a powerful downside and some mechanic to mitigate kiting/luring. Perhaps reap could have a chance of activating on any tur...

Nice work! I like the idea of reap, but I think it will not be too difficult to ensure you only fight one monster at a time due to kiting and luring. An ability like real needs a powerful downside and some mechanic to mitigate kiting/luring. Well, the ability isn't really meant to change how you pl...

I needed to do something to pass the time before Zelda:BotW comes out so I threw together a playable Skeleton, since there seemed to be a lot of interest in the species as a general concept, and I think I've found something that works reasonably well. Find the branch here (I might harass johnstein f...

So, I've played around with a few different versions of the god now, and I have a few thoughts on balance. Glad to see you around! I've spectated a few of your games and I was sure you had a lot to share :). Wall jump's problem is, of course, the escape potential. I don't think there is an easy way...

Very good points huiren :) (Although I must admit I wouldn't want to see the god go into any of the directions you've brought up). If walljump is too powerful, I'm still fairly convinced that the best knob to tweak is the number of auts spent when doing it. That is lunging at an orb of fire, missing...

I have no idea if there will be "consensus" on what I'm saying: I'm just giving my feedback. After all, wandering mushrooms at 1* exist, so it's not as if other abilities which I consider broken aren't in the game. Of course, and please don't take my disagreeing as me disregarding your in...

If you make martial attacks strictly better than tabbing, you're essentially forcing people to stop tabbing. Now, nobody is forcing people to choose this god, so if they are not willing to give up tabbing, they can go choose another god. But this fact is not consistent with your statement I quoted ...

So.. with the fix made to the attacks... spriggans are unplayable as Jioh. They are just... un-fun. Spriggans are already very much on the razors edge of RNG killing them, and.. lunging at a sleeping target and whiffing. Missing whilwind attacks all over... it just... sucks. I have played spriggans...

Making whirlwind do 80% of the damage of a normal attack seems to me a roundabout way of addressing the basic issue: you really envision these abilities as active rather than passive. Honestly, I really don't. Martial attacks being fully passive has been brought up again and again as the cornerston...

Heavenly Cloud seems to cost a lot of piety; perhaps there aren't enough abilities which use piety? Also, since there are a lot of fights in crawl, the god isn't Tab-friendly, which might turn off certain people. Well, the god has a rather generous list of likes and few piety sinks, so it feels fin...

Yeah, 1v1ing in an enclosed space is a super powerful ability available to all characters. A god which doesn't do anything whatsoever in such a space has a hidden, but large , penalty even without conducts. Let people get out of the overreaction stage before you start nerfing the god that only help...

Fair enough, that's a good argument. I'm leaning towards Lasty's (A) solution then. I'd rather have a hard limit, than reduce the god's offense as a punishment for having too much defense. The latter would make a turtly version of IJC possible, and that's an idea I don't like, not just because of th...

Yeah, it sounds to me like simply reducing the effectiveness of martial attacks proportional to your heavy armour penalty (lasty's suggestion c or d) is the simplest and most direct way to increase the "glass" factor, and it makes for a readily adjustable knob as you can play around with ...

I haven't played the god recently, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm a little worried about the god's direction. You mention that you don't want players repeatedly whirlwinding back and forth; what do you want? Should players be lunging into combat, whirlwinding, using a pole vault, lungin...

I've been a bit frustrated due to timezone restrictions lately, as I sleep through all of the interesting council god discussion (which is now named Wu Jian Council by the way!). One inevitable topic was going to be balance, and it is becoming clear that the god is very strong, and that something wi...

ONIchinchin wrote:
Steel Neuron wrote:60% chance of raising the rank of one of your current mutations

That's too high. Make it 40-30-15-15 last 15 is for not getting any.

Fair enough, my numbers are completely arbitrary.

Since mutation potions are decently common now, one option is to simply remove mutagenic meat. I suppose, but it would be cool to have some sort of option to push your current mutation set further, in exchange for risk. It could come in any other forms than meat. My only complaint with newmut is th...

I love the new mutation changes. I haven't had this much fun with the mutation game for years. However, I think the mutation game is still missing an axis. Eating mutagenic chunks doesn't really qualify as a strategic choice, but I think it could be made to with a single change, without reducing ris...

Alright, aside from these bugfixes, there is a minor balance change in the new version (not so minor though if you're playing Vs): Auxiliary unarmed attacks will have a reduced chance to proc when using martial attacks against multiple targets, proportional to the number of targets (so if you whirlw...

Ok, I am not sure how, but something got seriously out of whack with whirlwind code. As of february 16th, I have a centaur with a move speed of .8 (had dark knight barding) with a quickblade, and when I whirlwind, the whirlwind step takes .2 time AND gives 3 attacks. It is fun but... suuuper broken...

huiren wrote:I just wanted to find a name that would readily call high int/dex to mind.

Jeez, I wonder why popular fantasy hasn't come up with a species for that yet. Something that rhymed with rye shelf?

Alright, bug fixed :) It's been a while since I last updated this post, and the god has been changing a lot lately. I've made some surface, obvious changes but also some subtle, back-end-y ones that impact how the god plays a lot. Let's summarise and discuss! Major change 1: New ultimate ability. Th...

I've found a bug with wall jump. If you use Shift+[direction] to move into a wall, your character will waste multiple turns wall jumping repeatedly until something else happens to stop auto-movement. With no monsters around, a Shift+move will waste hundreds of turns until the character changes hung...

I proposed a possible change to degeneration, which after that discussion I'd re-propose like this:

Potion of Aging: Causes severe stat loss (more than current degen) but increased XP gain while the stat loss lasts.

Cool, so you intentionally play suboptimally because it's too tedious to play optimally. Sounds like the current charms system is bad, then. So whenever someone intentionally refuses to use consumables, spells of any kind, Evocations, Ranged Weapons and god abilities regardless of the situation and...

Changes are in. Starting early tomorrow in CBRO, no more crosstraining, proper support for unarmed and corner cases via the bracelets, and new claustrophobia conduct :) EDIT: Also, I've substantially decreased whirlwind's slow duration. It should last 6-8 turns now, about three times as much as dist...

I played a VpEn to V: 5 today and have a few points. First of all, I really hope this god is added to Trunk! It would be an amazing addition to the game. The movement abilities are a whole lot of fun. I don't know if this is intentional, but whirlwind is quite similar to Sil's flanking and whirlwin...

I think increasing the penalty as you increase piety is problematic, it encourages tedious piety management and punishes you for increasing piety. I would probably just have the punishment be a set value. But that's exactly how Qaz and Chei work... I think it's fine as long as the increase in drawb...

After another round of playtesting, I've been brewing up a new set of changes that will again push the god towards simplification, and in this case towards being less powerful in general, because with the new revision we're back in the "too good" spectrum. Big Change 1: No more cross-train...

Hellmonk wrote:Cool, so you intentionally play suboptimally because it's too tedious to play optimally. Sounds like the current charms system is bad, then.

This sums up the problem perfectly.

D:1 is unfair (no upstairs to stairdance) but the thing is, it doesn't matter. While you're still in D:1 you have invested less than five minutes into your game, so if you get mauled by a gnoll in a tight corridor, you just restart. If you get shafted three floors, you may even want to restart right...

One suggestion which has been also mentioned before is that there could be a limit to how many charms you can have on at a time. This limit could even include other buffs. The most drastic example: If you could only have 1 buff on at any time, you would really have to consider which one to use. E.g...

In order to remove the tedium of recasting, a MP reservation system has been proposed for charms and rejected for a variety of reasons, but we could just stop at the simplest: If you weren't planning to use MP, you are not paying a price by having less max MP. This makes MP reservation only matter f...

I'm not even that bitter of a vet, but mana reservation has been suggested several times and rejected because it fundamentally doesn't solve the problem. (To elaborate, if you're playing a melee dude that only uses charms, you're not losing anything notable by having less max MP, because you weren't...

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