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This is an excellent resource; thank you, Duvessa. I would say that Passwall is a good escape spell as long as you don't wait till you're too low on HP. It can remove you from being adjacent to a monster and it can take you out of LOS, neither of which are achieved by walking away unless you are fa...

On Bolt of Magma you write: I don't ever want to see an EE even looking at this spell, there is no reason to ever cast it instead of LRD. That sounds too strong to me. Even you would appreciate having it in the Swamp (joke or not), as LRD is usually not an option there. This is the only bolt-type sp...

i think hell is completely fine. Its pan that is mind bogglingly stupid. How many maps do you have to go through to get the runes? Yes, hells are fine from a player's perspective, because it is very easy to overcome the challenge that is supposed to make this branch interesting. From a game-design ...

Tele, then move into the spot to your NE, in order to get hit by only one monster at any time. The nice thing about Tele for Chei worshippers is that your move may take three turns into that spot, and Tele might trigger during that move. But the monsters only hit you (okay, several times) if the Tel...

Now what exactly is the game mechanic that caused Joe to do that? Is it that the AI always chooses to bash you with whatever they have in their hands when in melee range, even a cursed -1 sling? Or did he just run out of bullets? Not that it didn't work out well for the AI this time...

I also saw a gong shield - powerful thing :) http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Shield_of_the_gong But it didn't fit well with my build I died several times wearing that thing. That EV-5 penalty is quite severe for a gargoyle, and the skill investment is probably to high for a three-rune run.

Well done, man! I like the build...

Also magic mapping. "you feel slightly disoriented" might have made sense when secret passages were still a thing, but not anymore. You still have those - even in the upper dungeon you find rooms that you can only explore (and often even see) from the level below. And in Pandemonium and H...

Your proposal will remove ability to steal runes without killing any monsters (Sp of Ashenzari) Probably true. So this character really shouldn't go there, like many others. Sorry, I don't think that's a fair approach. Some of us do enjoy playing stealthy chars even through the extended game. Serio...

When in the future the player indiscriminately slurps up all that is lying around on the floor, without ever leaving behind stuff to be slurped up by slimes, Jiyva worshippers will need another way of accumulating piety.

It was on of the few times I had fun with a demigod, although I think that the -2 to spellcasting has no reason to be. It is there for historic reasons. In the old days it was -1, like all the other aptitudes, but in those days the fighting and spellcasting skills had a slight inherent malus for al...

Playing a DEFE, now at level 15, clearing out the mines. This is what I found in the shops: the cursed scarf "Laveten" {INT+5 SInv} the +9 quarterstaff of misery {speed rN+ Str+4} The scarf came for 355 bucks, the staff for slightly above 1000. And I have my staves skill already trained up...

Spellbooks are tactical items for Trog worshippers.

At least it didn't harm you.

Did you disable any skills?

I was hoping to counteract your first objection by having the monster-slay counter only define the minimum, so that you would not really know when exactly the entry point spawns. But I guess someone not put off by extreme tedium might then hop in for smaller and smaller stints. Healing, though, is o...

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Maybe it is not how durable summons work currently, then we will need to introduce new type of summons.

Yes, in this way I could live with it. But honestly, does anyone ever go to Hell to farm for XP and items? Pan is a much better place for this.

Maybe just disable scrolls of magic mapping on all hell floors except the last one? Or maybe on last one too. I find that problematic from a flavour point of view. Why should Scrolls of Magic Mapping not work in a particular branch? It does not work in Abyss, because it is infinite and random, but ...

I don't get it, who has so many magic mapping scrolls to use them on Hell 1-6 floors? This sounds weird. I certainly had several times. Where else do you really need them? Maybe on a Pan Boss level, and in the Lair side-branch ends. And to find timed portals. Otherwise experienced players can well ...

The Problem: The Hells have a clearly defined flavour: an optional extended game branch that forces players to spend a long time in an unpleasant environment before being able to reach the rune and the loot. I read somewhere that it is supposed to be easy to get out, but difficult to get deep. I fu...

You'll note that the phrasing used in this thread was "strictly best" and "usually optimal" i think both of those acknowledge that the effects are marginal, and don't presume it is required for survival. You are right about this thread. I have seen another thread, the one discus...

I take it that these values differ somewhat for various characters, right? An Ogre probably has a better return from training SC for almost any spell school than a DE has, for example, on charms. But I certainly see your point.

20 levels spellcasting costs more than training *every* magic schools (there are 12) to 6, and it gives you only as much success/power as training the schools to 5 . 27 levels of spellcasting costs more than training *every* magic school to 10, and it gives you as much success/power as training the...

VeryAngryFelid wrote:My primary reason for training SC is to get extra MP.

Right, I forgot that extra benefit. Thanks for tooting my horn.

There seem to be two competing opinions on training the spellcasting (SC) skill: some say that casters should train it constantly, even focused (that's me), and others claim that they only ever train it to unlock new spell levels. And I guess there are a lot of differing perspectives somewhere in be...

Yes, I do get this point. But people here in this forum treat successive skill training as somewhat essential to survival, and call simultaneous skill training bad, as if someone who does that is already doomed from the outset. But when you ask why, it all boils down to an extremely marginal effect,...

Since you are bent on going on, I would leave the four hells for the end, as they are the most annoying extended-game branches. I would probably start with Pandemonium, as this is the place that looks most familiar to other branches. But to make this a good option, you'd first need to get the abyssa...

I think this is the crux of our disagreement. I doubt that there are characters that 'need to develop in many directions simultaneously', while at the same time not really being sure what you actually mean. Yeah, I guess we can leave it at that. But I do observe that people here are repeating over ...

My statement is more based on personal experience. Once I confidently took on St. Roka on the lowest level of the Orcs, with my freshly learned and nicely castable Iron Shot, and I learned it the very hard way that most of my shots didn't even hit the feller. Those who did caused only minor damage. ...

I'm still to be convinced that this kind of micromanagement has any practical bearing on the real life of a caster. Let's envision, for the sake of the argument, a typical early mid-game EE. In terms of spells, he wants to max out his sandblast and stone-arrow spell power, while at the same time imp...

VeryAngryFelid wrote:it takes duvessa's level of knowledge to micromanage those skills.

It would be interesting to hear whether she actually does that...

Sure, but for around half the time, depending on the required XP ratios, you have 1 AC or 1 EV more. Now you could argue that 1 AC doesn't make much difference, but I would disagree, especially in the early game. Now, coming back to the OP's question, for a caster, who does not train fighting or do...

ThreeInvisibleDucks wrote:I've always thought it's more optimal, for example, to first train Armour to get a point of AC, then Dodging to gain a point of EV, instead of training them at the same time which takes longer to get either.

...but the same time to get both.

Yes, I see your reasoning now. But it is an optimality that gets indeed paid for by an insane amount of micromanagement, for a very marginal return.

I like drowning Cerebov in lava, by using a tornado and flying myself.

Fair enough. I died many times in Zot before having my first ascension.

Training one skill at a time is strictly best (as long as that's the most useful skill to train of course). personally i find that while training 1 or 2 skills at all times is usually optimum On which basis do you make this claim? I don't understand how this can be "strictly best" or &quo...

duvessa wrote:too bad there's not a common potion, a ring, a boots ego, or a randart property that would let you move over water squares without being slowed down

There is. It's called Potion of Flight, or Ring of Flight, or Boots of Flight.

Queen Cassie is right. Take your money, run, and enjoy the new entry on the top of your score board! Then come back and go for more.

I'm wondering how many skills one should train at a time, especially when playing a mage character. That's a worthy question, and whatever response you get, it won't be undisputed by others. Here is my version: You are right about spellcasting - I leave this on until I reach level 27, often focused...

Certainly don't take your stealth boots for the sake of stealth. All your spells are so noisy that any stealth you develop is thrown out the window the moment you start casting.

I think you can salvage your character by dropping all slaying equipment and replacing it with +INT equipment, when you can find it. Indeed your INT is way too low for making your conjurations work. Iron shot has a much better hit rate with higher spell power, and that should take care of the orbs. ...

It appears that bel is right. My current Gargoyle has an armour skill of zero, INT at 34, STR at 13, spellcasting at 26, fire and conjurations at about 20. I ran it with a robe so far, but when I equip a troll leather armor (ER 4), my Firestorm failure rate 'soars' from 3% to 4%. Based on that I wou...

More pieces of advice then :). Never train Armour to get rid of ER, there is just a single reason to train Armour - to get extra AC. Extra EV, spellcasting failure improvements, accuracy bonus are useful but just extra bonuses and should not affect your decision to train Armour. I don't quite agree...

As a Gargoyle you had a good reason to feel cocky in the Nest. You are immune to poison, so you feel invincible there - until one of those Tarantulas gets a bite at you. Too bad that the poison immunity does not protect you from that. Once you are at 8 HP, anything you do could get you snuffed. Don'...

It was my first Ziggurat, I was always too scared to try it ^^ But it was fun so no regrets. That's the right attitude. It is no shame to die after making it to floor 24 of your first Ziggurat. Next time you'll come with a better idea of what to expect, and you won't forget that you have Death's Do...

It's nice, assuming you aren't going up against a fiery-weapon using opponent (i.e. Asrael or Cerebov- on that note, it is generally in poor taste to go up against Cere in general unless you are REALLY well prepared- I tried him once and kinda got tenderized) Not just those two; any lowly efreet wi...

I start reading scrolls at differing times. When you pick up a cursed item you need to get rid of, you want to quickly read a scroll of remove curse. This is one of the more frequent scrolls, so you start with non-single scrolls. My next need to read scrolls is when I want to get at a timed portal, ...

For all I know, that should work, but for some reason the baddies expect you to come back eventually, and they will be close by.

Injured monsters usually heal up while you are away. Bodies decompose, skeletons disappear. So, time passes.

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