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Because Ash is a good choice for mages, and mages are a good choice for extended because they can more easily get the tools they need, such as necromut and cblink.

Also I still didn't change my mind on 3. shows that with 100 HP the shield improves your time from 10 turns to 16 turns and from 25 turns to 40 turns. The second increase is greater in numbers but is still less useful. If you don't see why, increase the EV (50 turns instead of 80 has even greater i...

I'm getting tired of arguing about this. You are missing the big picture. What determines whether you can kill a monster or not in a simple slugging fight is the following formula: CombatPower = (AvEffDam attacking) * (your HP) / ((AvEffDam defending) * (enemy HP)) If this value is >1, you will on a...

Distortion brand blinks enemies around and teleports them. You lose on XP when you banish things. You have to fight things multiple times after they teleport away, heal and come back. You also lose on XP if they teleport away and you don't bump into them again. If you got into close range with a ran...

Good, a demon trident of venom is a decent weapon, better than your current. It's really not recommended to do shoals next, and it is recommended to keep the plate on. Conjure flame is obsolete by this point, and you can cast animate skeleton in plate if you really feel the need. The characters that...

No spells for a while. Wear the plate. Wear the large shield and train shields to 15, then train armor. You would have been better off spending your enchants on the +0 glaive but what's done is done. Brutes like you have trouble in shoals, save it till after vaults4. On the other hand formicids like...

There are a couple metrics where the benefit of SH is larger, the higher your EV. For example, the absolute increase in the number of stone giants you can kill in a row. If you can kill 10 stone giants in a row due to your high EV, and your shield grants +50% additional time to live, then you get to...

Yes, the buckler is better for now. (But also consider a Large Shield if you find one). Your bigger problem is your weapon sucks. You probably want a nice Glaive; has an enchanted Glaive dropped anywhere? Did you already burn all your enchant weapon scrolls and the Lugonu corrupt weapon ability on t...

percentage reduction is (AvEffDam_old - AvEffDam_new) / AvEffDam_old. For example, if 5 AvEffDam is reduced to 3 AvEffDam, this is a 40% reduction. And the point is that if you choose the skill option that gives the greater *percentage* reduction in AvEffDam, this is also the option that gives the g...

You have already provided the relevant formula before. If you already have high EV, then it is more efficient to train fighting/armour even without taking defense-ignoring attacks into account. Especially with high level skills becoming more expensive. So a buckler becomes attractive for casters in...

There are many ways to measure improvement. Here are some: ⋅ Change in damage received per turn, measured in points of HP ⋅ Change in to-hit chance per turn, measured in points of to-hit probability ⋅ Change in turns to live, measured in number of turns ⋅ ...

Yeah, if you can't walk away, and have no better action. Shield isn't very useful against an unseen horror though because invisibility reduces block chance.

you cannot say "AK is better than IE" you can only say "the player population is better with AK than IE". If you can say "the player population *among players that are most similar to me* is better with AK than IE" then that seems useful, doesn't it? Gives you a hint o...

And this matters a lot if I am going to die soon. It's incredibly useful if I just blocked something with my shield and as a result went from 0 turns to live to 1. If I have 100 turns to live against a given opponent, who cares if a shield makes it 142? Because then that permits you to kill more of...

Fsim thinks that an unseen horror has the same accuracy against you whether you are wielding the Dark Maul or a quickblade. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/68eecb799f043e3876a51bd9db19da6079ee6ff3/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc apparently this is because it resets you.shield_blocks = 0 before ever...

You have just proved that relative values are meaningless for defense. Should I get 1) 10000% improvement by having my chance to be hit go from 99.9% to 99% or 2) 50% improvement by getting AC from 30 to 45. If your chance to be hit goes from 99.9% to 99%, your time to live is multiplied by 99.9/99...

interesting thread Do you guys suppose that the correct amount of skill assignment (shield/armour/dodge/fighting) from a fixed exp pool, in terms of maximizing # turns survived vs, say, a stone giant, can be easily determined, like solving a linear optimization problem, or is it better to monte-car...

Well, to summarize the point I was making, the real question is whether a shield is a better XP investment than spending the same XP on something else. And it turns out that if you're fighting enemies like stone giants, the right decision doesn't depend on your EV.

That's an interesting point about the 1 HP scenario. Still, you would always rather have the shield than not have it. The real question is whether you could better spend the skill XP on something else. For example, could you prevent yourself from getting to 1 HP more effectively by training the shie...

But relative is what matters, not absolute. Relative improvement for the shield remains constant. You are able to stand there tanking hits for (your HP)/AvEffDam turns. In every case from your fsim, you can tank hits for about 50% more turns with the shield than without it. To put it another way, th...

These are the races, ordered by recent win percentage among all players. (recent is version >= 0.20) <causative> !lg * recent /won s=crace o=-% <Sequell> 17893/1899106 games for * (recent): 0/19x High Elf [0.00%], 402/124801x Octopode [0.32%], 524/118258x Draconian [0.44%], 340/64541x Spriggan [0.53...

You can click the "value of ac/ev/sh" link in my sig for a more detailed look at it. You start with T=(1/EV_Pass) * (1/SH_Pass) * (1/AC_Pass), where EV_Pass is the percent of damage tested against evasion that gets past evasion, SH_Pass is the percent of damage tested against SH that gets ...

Who has the most useful metric? In my view that can be seen from the 99% dodge case. As the chance of dodging tends to 100%, your metric continues to give the same value, "25% increase in survival", or rather "20% reduction in incoming damage". VAF's metric tends towards "n...

These are the most popular gods among high winrate players for 15 rune games: <causative> !lg tenpercenters urune=15 s=god <Sequell> 2296 games for tenpercenters (urune=15): 473x The Shining One, 265x Makhleb, 172x Vehumet, 157x Ashenzari, 127x Zin, 119x Sif Muna, 118x Okawaru, 106x Cheibriados, 103...

That character is wearing equipment of EV+8 and has the Agile mutation. Evasion from those sources don't count for our purposes. Yes, a shield would still add a lot to that, though you have unusually high defenses for a deep elf and therefore don't need it as much. In my experience it is not uncomm...

Note that even if all the walls are transparent, the vault could contain invisible monsters, so you can't tell if you're strong enough in any case, unless you SInv.

It is a general rule of safe crawling, to treat being below 50% HP as a dire emergency to be avoided under normal circumstances. If you play this way through the whole game you will die much less frequently. This helps to explain the danger of torment. Torment may not kill you, but it will knock off...

Most gods are just bad in extended. I would also say that most characters are just bad in extended due to the existence of the new Tomb. Ash is good in extended though, not a bad choice for mages who need to gather all the spells to handle Tomb on limited XP. Zin is also good, it gives you an excell...

My meaning was that you can't get as many *additional, cost-effective* points of EV through training as you can of SH, on the limited XP budget of a normal 3 rune game. You can get 9-12 points of SH beyond the points for a buckler, more cost-effectively than you can get the same number of points of...

The main issue is that you can't get as many points of EV as you can of SH. As DE? I have 2 online wins, both happened when displayed SH value was doubled. 15 runes: HP 195/195 (196) AC 39 Str 10 XL: 27 MP 50/50 EV 38 Int 35 God: Vehumet [******] Gold 13113 SH 16 Dex 21 Spells: 14 memorised, 0 leve...

The main issue is that you can't get as many points of EV as you can of SH. SH is actually okay with multiple attacks/turn, as long as it's only two or three.

It seems to me that in 2 out of 3 games (including the important Vehumet case), you didn't wear a shield. I mean, the greater takeaway is that most of my winning DE's had full sized shields, not counting my current game which also does. Those 2 recent games I probably should have had a shield too. ...

We were discussing that because it was the Deep Elf I started in reaction to this thread. This is my previous DE win: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Berder/morgue-Berder-20180305-153355.txt DEEn^Ashenzari; LCS and Fire Storm; +2 Shield Ashenzari makes it easier to get level 9s going than Veh...

The problem is: this is DCA, and one should be discussing typical Deep Elf characters. Many of your points fail to generalize. Your game is highly unusual: you have found +12 int gear, +2 shield early (and no good buckler), a +4 ring mail (and no good robe), and a great spell selection. The +12 int...

+9 SH is not equal to +9 EV. The game has some weird calculations for blocks and SH's displayed value is considerably inflated compared to its actual usefulness. I've investigated this more thoroughly than anyone. Click the link "value of ac/ev/sh" in my signature if you would like to kno...

- Level 7.8 Fighting + Level 5.3 Shields I would train fighting instead. Also note it is not typical to have +12 Int from gear at this point. I can increase my defensive stats more quickly by training shields than by training fighting or dodging. First, fighting has -2 aptitude while Dodging has +2...

As an example of when to train shields on a DE: I started a DEAE today because the thread got me thinking about deep elves. Having finished Orc:2 I found a +2 shield. I was using a +0 buckler, but now I am training shields to 15. Why? Because I already have a set of spells suitable for Zot at 2% fai...

Vehumet is one of the weaker gods. You can certainly worship Vehumet if you want to, it's a very fun god (people win atheist games all the time, after all), but most other gods are better for winning - just look at what Fedhas, Gozag, Kiku, or Nemelex offer you, Vehumet doesn't remotely compare. Ve...

I have a DrFE^Nemelex going as a result of this thread. I'm playing with the idea not to train evocations, but to rely on invocations for everything. Nem is really a pain and there are so many situations where on another character I'd zap a wand, and instead I evoke a deck of destruction for very me...

bel wrote:Btw, you only speak for yourself when you say that Triple Draw isn't useful. I use it fairly often.

"I use it fairly often" and "Triple Draw isn't useful" are not in contradiction

immolation is a good idea on V5 welcome party, since you have decent AC and rF+++. Sure, it's going to attract a lot of enemies to the center. That's why you teleport out of the center after you've blown everything up. Now, everything has been drawn away from wherever you teleport (probably) so the ...

But Triple Draw is not useful (I do not use it), and Shuffle Search is not much stronger than Triple Draw, for a higher piety cost. So this would end up being only 1 actually useful god ability (Deal Four). The ability to peek at a card before evoking it and go "nah, I'd rather do something el...

Shuffle Search is flexible – maybe you want a specific card, or maybe you want any 5 of 6 cards, e.g. anything but Pain to deal with an undead threat. Shuffle Search would indeed be redundant with Triple Draw. The main reasons to use Triple Draw instead would be A- earlier access and B- lower non-c...

Ah, yes you can, thought I had tried that before. Perhaps a more recent feature.

Before the Spell Library, you could search for spells to memorize using Ctrl-F from the main game window, which would show books containing the search term. This only works halfway now because it won't find spells in your Spell Library. I'd like spells in the Spell Library to also show up with ctrl-...

Discovering and exploring new aspects of the game is half the fun. I remember Crawl was a lot more fun for me back when every corner could show me something new and unexpected. A blind transporter vault is still, for me, something mysterious to explore, and therefore exciting. If you could see their...

First, read the "safe tactics" guide: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?t=16109 . When playing without melee, it's important to retreat back towards the stairs if there are a lot of monsters (if the monsters aren't too fast) so you don't get stuck in the open without any MP. Fi...

You want to maintain it while exploring, but it's not worth spending the turn to cast it during combat. However, you may at times have a spare turn in combat where you have nothing else pressing to do. For example, sometimes you need to wait a couple turns for more enemies to come into view so you ...

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