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43 minutes ago

Forum: Dungeon Crawling Advice

Topic: finally figured out how to do vaults 5

Replies: 8

Views: 150

Re: finally figured out how to do vaults 5

About the outer ring, one big demerit is that you can escape hatch directly into it, which demotes probably the best fight in the game to a depths enclosure vault. The lanes have roughly the same problem, though they're more exposed and open. Of course these issues apply to teleports too. In general...

Yesterday, 19:40

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Replacement for the skills menu

Replies: 3

Views: 148

Re: Replacement for the skills menu

The difference between rounding to 4 or 5 in an EV calculation is small enough not to worry about, in my opinion. I think a menu that allows shows the change in things like defenses, attack delay, fail rates, and spellpower to the player for each possible change in skill in a system like this would ...

Yesterday, 12:25

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Replacement for the skills menu

Replies: 3

Views: 148

Re: Replacement for the skills menu

The principles described in the first half of the post seem okay to me, but the system described in the second half not as much. Tying skills to various kinds of item or other resource allocation, including items that should be removed, is not the way to go. One thing I like about your proposed syst...

Tuesday, 25th February 2020, 20:58

Forum: Dungeon Crawling Advice

Topic: finally figured out how to do vaults 5

Replies: 8

Views: 150

Re: finally figured out how to do vaults 5

I find that walking between the guards at the beginning toward the most favorable of the generally two possible quadrants to do this with, somewhat as borsuk suggests, produces consistent results even with low level characters, say xl 17 or 18. Of course, best practice is to delay entry until just b...

Tuesday, 25th February 2020, 18:48

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

lmao

Tuesday, 25th February 2020, 14:35

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Default skill targets and settings that get the player to d:5 with better allocation than autoskill would be easy to put together for every background other than wanderer and that's just using existing features. Straightforward extensions to the skill target system (e.g. targets with priority) would...

Tuesday, 25th February 2020, 13:45

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

The deeper problem is the roguelike item idiom itself. Identification is just one of many layers that obfuscate the deeper truth that items as understood in roguelike games are inherently tedious and the more you have the worse it gets. Have you considered the possibility that you don't actually li...

Monday, 24th February 2020, 15:27

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

I wouldn't call that a mechanic, so I find this line of argument unconvincing.

Monday, 24th February 2020, 15:21

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

Unenchanted daggers are good/interesting. Okay.

Monday, 24th February 2020, 14:53

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

I'm sorry, you're asking if the player's ability to use an untrained dagger in zot should be removed? What does this even mean? (To be clear, I can think of one way to do that that would result in a clearly superior game, but I don't want to get that far off track.) edit: Ah, what the hell... The wh...

Monday, 24th February 2020, 14:36

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

Relatedly, hellcrawl has no identification at all. All items are always identified. I rather like it because if a mechanic is not good enough to last a whole game, it shouldn't be in the game at all. [edit: Btw, the blog posts from the golden krone hotel guy linked in this thread are a great example...

Sunday, 23rd February 2020, 16:43

Forum: Dungeon Crawling Advice

Topic: Can you be killed by lava overflow in Volcano?

Replies: 1

Views: 171

Re: Can you be killed by lava overflow in Volcano?

I believe that's a negatory, good buddy.

Sunday, 23rd February 2020, 15:46

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Remove the id game (new reason)

Replies: 56

Views: 3591

Re: Remove the id game (new reason)

I'm not super familiar with rogue, but it is my impression, backed up by commentary on the game I've seen, that optimal or at least adequate navigation of its identification system is actually very straightforward and can be summarized in a small flow chart. You should always be suspicious of a glos...

Sunday, 23rd February 2020, 15:36

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Narrator: It simply was true.

Saturday, 22nd February 2020, 22:43

Forum: Dungeon Crawling Advice

Topic: What gives you mutations in Tomb?

Replies: 5

Views: 245

Re: What gives you mutations in Tomb?

You were mutated by contamination, probably from casting cblink and using haste potions.

Saturday, 22nd February 2020, 17:33

Forum: Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Topic: Rogue (the roguelike game)

Replies: 13

Views: 411

Re: Rogue (the roguelike game)

The board game analogy is apt. Roguelike games are essentially solitaire board games. The complexity budget absolutely applies, but the emphasis shifts to making the user facing elements of the game simple, possibly at the cost of internal complexity. Dice roll-based mechanics, in particular, make s...

Saturday, 22nd February 2020, 13:30

Forum: Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Topic: Rogue (the roguelike game)

Replies: 13

Views: 411

Re: Rogue (the roguelike game)

I never really played hack, seems to have been a pretty straightforward derivative of rogue. In some sense the first proper roguelike (i.e. not just rogue) was moria. It was the first to bring in complex dungeon generation, a large number of items and monsters, full spell systems, character classes,...

Friday, 21st February 2020, 12:47

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: How can we simplify the summoning school?

Replies: 11

Views: 449

Re: How can we simplify the summoning school?

It's important to emphasize the connection between summoning/allies and boredom. It's not incidental. Having an essentially free, computer controlled monster fight for the player is obviously going to be boring. There are no stakes, no risk, barely any tactics most of the time. Safety doesn't come a...

Thursday, 20th February 2020, 17:34

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: How can we simplify the summoning school?

Replies: 11

Views: 449

Re: How can we simplify the summoning school?

The idea of summons that cannot block monsters has been around for a while under the name "illusion mechanics." Monsters walk through them and destroy or switch places with them, never attack them etc. It's a good reform to allies in general, but I don't see it making the summoning school ...

Thursday, 20th February 2020, 13:25

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Kudos to the designers

Replies: 1

Views: 208

Re: Kudos to the designers

Thanks

Saturday, 15th February 2020, 19:49

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Too many Evo items.

Replies: 22

Views: 873

Re: Too many Evo items.

The actual issue is that you can always carry all the tactically useful items you have access to at the cost of not carrying things whose direct possession at any given time is mere convenience. So this rousing appeal to the idea of choice denies the basis of the entire conversation. Cool!

Saturday, 15th February 2020, 15:45

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Rework the ancient champion spellbook

Replies: 3

Views: 299

Re: Rework the ancient champion spellbook

The ancient champion change is almost as easy to make as it is to post about it. The broader project would be a lot of hours of negotiation for someone without commit access. Just my two cents.

Friday, 14th February 2020, 14:35

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: drop last picked up or unequipped item with D

Replies: 6

Views: 314

Re: drop last picked up or unequipped item with D

What are you talking about?

Wednesday, 12th February 2020, 23:43

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Too many Evo items.

Replies: 22

Views: 873

Re: Too many Evo items.

I think different effect patterns were considered for digging in the past. Combining the digging effect with both the acid and scattershot effects (perhaps renaming the latter to something like blasting) and doing the roulette thing on these two types would probably work. Total reduction of two wand...

Wednesday, 12th February 2020, 14:29

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Too many Evo items.

Replies: 22

Views: 873

Re: Too many Evo items.

petercordia wrote:I'd be in favour of randomly removing some types of evo items from every game


This is by far the best solution. Should be applied to potion and scroll types as well.

Wednesday, 12th February 2020, 14:16

Forum: Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Topic: feels like alot of indie games are now called roguelikes

Replies: 110

Views: 20222

Re: feels like alot of indie games are now called roguelikes

Man, this is a blast from the past. Thought I could resist, but sorry folks... "Roguelike" is a brand. There's this network of platforms, podcasts, and so forth called by their managers a "community," but computer games are, at least potentially, products and therefore there is a...

Wednesday, 12th February 2020, 03:51

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: drop last picked up or unequipped item with D

Replies: 6

Views: 314

Re: drop last picked up or unequipped item with D

chequers wrote:How does this change the current behaviour?


Currently, D drops the last item you picked up, which is not always the same thing as the last thing you picked up or unequipped (or whatever other things these guys are talking about).

Tuesday, 11th February 2020, 16:04

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: drop last picked up or unequipped item with D

Replies: 6

Views: 314

drop last picked up or unequipped item with D

See subject line, with the exception of weapon swapping via the ' command. This would reduce tedium from early game equipment churn.

Sunday, 9th February 2020, 15:20

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: So happy to see exclamation marks in my spell damage finally

Replies: 28

Views: 1357

Re: So happy to see exclamation marks in my spell damage fin

There is no such thing as "not going to happen." If these features are important to you, play forks that have them. Request features like sort by average damage in ctrl-F, if not in dcss then in other crawl projects. You may think people don't change, but personnel does and the fact is som...

Friday, 7th February 2020, 19:19

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: So happy to see exclamation marks in my spell damage finally

Replies: 28

Views: 1357

Re: So happy to see exclamation marks in my spell damage fin

Yeah, the game should just tell you straight up which of two weapons is better. It would be a reasonable addition to the dungeon crawl item search engine. Compare weapon and armor qualities, automatically rank them etc. So much mystification around these things could be eliminated by very simple, ob...

Thursday, 6th February 2020, 21:03

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

The reason autotraining exists in dcss is its connection with Linley's dungeon crawl skills. It does not help new players to have a bad default option. The talk about new players is at best an excuse for keeping it around. If anyone cares about helping new players just play the game (outside of play...

Thursday, 6th February 2020, 14:25

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Thanks guys, always reassuring to get the daily reminder that bad things are actually good.

Thursday, 6th February 2020, 02:45

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

It's very weird that this vestigial feature that you turn off at the beginning of every game is still around. Seems like there's a fair amount of code going into its implementation too. Would be good to get rid of it.

Wednesday, 5th February 2020, 17:33

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Replies: 42

Views: 2185

Re: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

By that token, changing a single aptitude by any multiple of 3 makes no difference, right? What a clever, worthwhile thing to post.

Wednesday, 5th February 2020, 13:17

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: So happy to see exclamation marks in my spell damage finally

Replies: 28

Views: 1357

Re: So happy to see exclamation marks in my spell damage fin

You're not wrong but the decision to NOT show explicit numbers most of the time was and is a base design consideration for DCSS from the beginning. Just as I'm against over-meddling with stair mechanics, I feel changing this would be a strong alteration of the basic "flavor" of the game, ...

Tuesday, 4th February 2020, 02:17

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Rework polearms

Replies: 60

Views: 7411

Re: Rework polearms

I think you're confused about how this stuff works.

Monday, 3rd February 2020, 15:12

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Rework polearms

Replies: 60

Views: 7411

Re: Rework polearms

This is totally unresponsive. If you spent the time to think about the arguments people make about this, read things that have been written here, you would know that simply removing the equipment is not the end of the story.

Monday, 3rd February 2020, 13:53

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Rework polearms

Replies: 60

Views: 7411

Re: Rework polearms

There is no baby and that's not bathwater. Hellcrawl has removed a lot of monster equipment, particularly armor for low tier monsters like orc warriors, wizards, etc. There is still an insane amount of junk dumped into the game through monster equipment for no gain in gameplay. Of course, removing t...

Saturday, 1st February 2020, 13:14

Forum: Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Topic: How to learn from other persons game

Replies: 6

Views: 563

Re: How to learn from other persons game

You can get their ttyrecs and watch their games. edit: the ttyrecs are in https://webzook.net/soup/ttyrecs/Engine/ -- these files contain whole sessions, they are indexed by IRC bots as described above, but you can grab them right out of the directory and play them locally. Just have to get a ttyrec...

Saturday, 1st February 2020, 11:03

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Why is Corona so bad?

Replies: 5

Views: 434

Re: Why is Corona so bad?

I don't see why an effect that has a chance to distract a monster when you melee it is necessarily overpowered. Lots of room to adjust for balance there. Main problem is that the natural models are duration spells.

Saturday, 1st February 2020, 10:57

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

edit: lol n/m

Saturday, 1st February 2020, 10:51

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Replies: 42

Views: 2185

Re: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Frankly, there's more potential in moving beyond "weapon classes" as traditionally conceived in crawl Cool, still not going to happen A year ago, I would have said there's no way they'll ever get rid of all the bolt spells. If the horizon is changing the aptitude table, it's all that'll e...

Saturday, 1st February 2020, 02:36

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Replies: 42

Views: 2185

Re: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Frankly, there's more potential in moving beyond "weapon classes" as traditionally conceived in crawl (basically a parallel of the weapon proficiency concept of AD&D, surprisingly poorly executed). It's the same as the old six flavors of bolt spell situation. In the misguided pursuit o...

Friday, 31st January 2020, 21:29

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Replies: 42

Views: 2185

Re: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

"What about hydras?" lmao Actually, straight UC is the same as using M&F. It does not matter that there are different ways to slightly modulate the qualities of your melee attacks with a giant club. These factors are insignificant compared to the overwhelming similarity in the mechanic...

Friday, 31st January 2020, 18:12

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Replies: 42

Views: 2185

Re: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Buddy, let me know when you have logic of your own to lay on me.

Friday, 31st January 2020, 16:59

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

Replies: 42

Views: 2185

Re: Give Trolls +2 Maces & Flails Aptitude

This is intended to provide a replacement for Ogres old big club aptitude and playstyle in Trolls. This way Ogre stays more of a versatile fat human, while Trolls get an alternative melee style that is not so clearly inferior to Unarmed Combat. It also helps differentiate their relationship to big ...

Friday, 31st January 2020, 14:08

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Why is Corona so bad?

Replies: 5

Views: 434

Why is Corona so bad?

So first, Corona has all the usual targeting issues. It's also a pretty subtle effect that doesn't always work and doesn't always last that long when it does. I would suggest that this is too boring and too fiddly to work as a spell. I would suggest either de-targeting the spell with an AOE effect s...

Friday, 31st January 2020, 02:07

Forum: Game Design Discussion

Topic: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Replies: 46

Views: 1878

Re: Opaque skill system is severely wounded

Gotta say, the roguelike purist (??) who can't spell "roguelike" is a good bit, though there's nothing particularly "roguelike" about the dcss skill system, outside of its obscurantism.

Wednesday, 29th January 2020, 20:52

Forum: Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Topic: stop me if you've heard this one...

Replies: 2

Views: 312

Re: stop me if you've heard this one...

But those clouds don't attract monsters. Takes a lot longer.

Wednesday, 29th January 2020, 19:43

Forum: Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Topic: stop me if you've heard this one...

Replies: 2

Views: 312

stop me if you've heard this one...

Okay, so a guy goes into the dungeon and meets Suzhen. She transforms. He teleports away and waits. 1000 turns later the two of them are the only things alive on the level! :lol:
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