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Thinking about it, Necromutation would ruin my character. My strength derives from being able to cast SoB, and in emergencies DD. Both would not be available when transformed. And I don't want another spell school.

I think Necromutation becomes more attractive in 0.20 for Ds because we don't have infinite haste now. Were you working on it? I am sure it could be relatively easy with high Int and extended XP. I didn't plan on it, so far, but I am quite shocked about how tormenting can rip apart my 287 HP. I'll ...

Had to use DD twice more already. Once fighting Lom Lobon, and the other time with an incredibly hardy Pan Lord who wouldn't take any damage from a full volley of LCS. I've never seen anything like this before. He showed up right next to me, so I couldn't firestorm him, which would probably have wor...

Well, then it was definitely not your mistake, but Wiki's. Where else would you get your numbers from, except from observing things in the game (which is what I did in this case)? I'm mathematically challenged and can't code-dive, and I guess that applies to most of us here.

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Don't you? Where's the 'g' in 'Demihuman from the future'?

Demiguy

What does more damage: Iron Shot (range 5, level 6) or PArrow (range 7, level 6)? No googling please :) I'm a little confused about ranges. Iron Shot definitely has only range 4 these days, same as Stone Arrow. The Wiki also said 5, but I corrected this now. Has this been changed recently, or has t...

Still CIP, but I've had a very close scratch with death in Pan. In one level I landed in the center of a wide, open area and got attacked first by Demonspawn colleagues, then by Hell Sentinels, Brimstone Fiends and Balrugs from all sides. It was more like, blast, blast, blast, blast again, then kill...

Got the abyssal and the slimy rune. Still going, and slowly the failure rates get down to comfortable numbers again. Next I will enter Pandemonium and start learning charms, for Death's Door. The way things go so far, I may never have to cast it, even in a Zig, but it will still be good to have it a...

Still CIP. Zot is liberated, but I left the Orb in place. Even after all that accumulated experience, my failure rates for Firestorm and Shatter are still too high, so that I used my staff of wizardry in Zot, at the expense of spell power. My idea with abusing Makhleb's HP restoration works rather n...

Shtopit wrote:Besides, all Crawl uniques have a name but no surname: we don't know Sigmund's family name.

Aah. Is this why Norris was removed from the game? I wondered about that.

It doesn't even matter if Troll wins or not. It only needs to live long enough to cast LRD a couple of times. Then it would be quite convenient if your spawn finishes it off.

Is using allies instead of yourself some kind of state secret? Am I going to get a few more relative points that someone else really needs to keep to themselves? Does using allies get me inside the vault that happens to have nothing inside this time, in a way that's somehow more special than not us...

Now the first step is taken. I converted to Makhleb and visited the Crypt. By the time I was done with the Crypt, Vehumet was mollified, and my piety with Makhleb at ****, which means that I already get significant HP restoration. SoB works quite nicely already, at 7# spell power. My necro skill is ...

iirc X > lets you cycle through portals that you can enter, and skips shops. doesn't help much on levels with other portals, but otherwise it's convenient. i would prefer a better long term fix but it's something in the meantime. Does that also work when you have not actually seen the features yet,...

Aah, now I tried it. Artifact boots and scales bring my INT up to a whopping 43, but my AC down to 12 (from 14). The AC would grow quickly from training more armour, and the spell penalty isn't crippling at all. I'm tempted, but my spell power went down to 8# for all spells. Hmm.

So OK, this is an experiment, but an experiment for what? Whether leaving Veh is easy or not? Also, you 're leaving your defenses terribly low while going for too many level-9 spells. Is this part of the experiment, or is this just how you roll? No, I've left Vehumet before, and it's not that dange...

Sprucery wrote:Another idea: make it so that reading a second scroll of magic mapping will identify the portals. So if you really want more information, you must burn another consumable.

I like that idea. Thanks!

I'll attempt an experiment here, inspired by the fact that I got a DS character old enough to develop the full Robust mutation set. Here is the baseline: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20.0 (tiles) character file. Majang the Ruinous (Demonspawn Conjurer) Turns: 105670, Time: 10:4...

Yesterday I was greeted by a Wizard lab announcement when entering Depths 5. Excitedly, a mapped the level and was informed that 9 shops/portals had been identified, none of which happened to be in my LOS. The map presented itself to me as follows: ############## #............# #.##########.# #.# #....

So, to review: you don't know what to-hit does, you didn't care to research how much damage Iron Shot does, and, unless I've made some tremendous mistake, you didn't care to calculate the mean of 4d(4+X/6) or 6d(3+X/9). I have no problem with people not wanting to do the math, but you should acknow...

watertreatmentRL wrote:I like necromancy in extended as well.

I do to. It's nice to see something we can agree on!

Generally I have no problems with all of these things. But I do groan if the first weapon I pick up in the game is a -3 club or some such, and then I don't get a scroll of remove curse for four levels... That stuff seems to happen to me every third game, and I wish there were some mechanics that wou...

I have to wonder if you're just pulling our collective legs. None of these numbers you're giving make sense - for Iron Shot to do an average of 30 damage to Saint Roka at 60 power, Roka would need to have 9 AC, which requires him generating with a -1 chain mail, -3 plate armour, or downgrading his ...

I certainly don't disagree with that.

So then you see that character with BoF will always have a higher damage spell. Yes, but as Duvessa rightly pointed out, so will a dagger if I only train short blades. If my strategy consists of learning both fire and earth anyway (not just for damage-dealing purposes; both schools have useful util...

One thing about slime creatures that is widely not appreciated is that they dissolve into smaller slime creatures when you leave space for them to do so. So if you see a titanic creature pursuing you, and you can't escape it upstairs, then stop to face it with eight open spaces around you. When the ...

BoM and BoF always do the same damage with the same power, not just at full power. I feel it's worth continuing to talk about this. You are right that at same power the damage is approximately the same. The difference is that for the same XP investment, the character with BoF (training Fire/Conjura...

BoM and BoF always do the same damage with the same power, not just at full power. I think we should stop our discussion on summons and allies - we are talking past each other here, I guess. One more word - reading through my previous comments here, I notice that I let a lot more heat seep into this...

Edit. Let's not forget that BoM deals 55% fire damage so if we are talking about FE, then BoM is not that great because bolt of fire deals way more damage to monsters without rF+ and the 55% fire damage weakens BoM vs monsters with rF+ considerably. Actually I tried using BoM as FE a long time ago ...

An offensive spell caster wants more offensive spells of a slightly different nature, giving the caster all the offensive options to meet all tactical situations. You are contradicting yourself here IMHO. Training better Iron Shot is the opposite of the described. Train weapon (probably ranged one)...

In any case, Lightning Bolt wins this contest hands down. And Air is a useful school for utility too, giving Swiftness and DMsl. But, as you noticed, LB is an air spell. You are not suggesting that an FE or EE should train this instead of BoM, are you? Are you suggesting, instead, that we all shoul...

A character with improved Iron Shot is ways weaker than character with Iron Shot AND Death Channel AND Shadow Creatures. Sigh. You keep suggesting summons to a build that cannot have summons or allies. Remember, we are having this discussion in the context of an offensive spell caster. Neither LRD ...

With twice the spell power most spells are more than twice as good - all those spells that have a to-hit rate based on spell power. When I have a spell that deals twice as much damage at #8 compared to #6, and hits twice as often, in effect I have quadrupled its efficiency. That's why I think it is ...

But if this is precisely what you plan to do, then BoM is a wonderful spell, giving you the highest level-5 spell damage on average. And short blades are the highest damage weapons if you plan to only train short blades skill. The point is that planning to train two elemental schools is a bad plan ...

BoM is outperformed by only one level-5 direct-damage spell damage-wise, and that is LRD, but only in ideal circumstances. [...] Yes, it requires three schools (why are they garbage?) You clearly do not understand how spell power works. For spell success and power, the average skill level among all...

I've been watching this thread with interest, as for a long time I've never been quite sure how to approach skilling my elementalists from about the point where I hit lair. I used to just push elemental skills and take it on faith that appropriate spell books would show up, but after some IRC advic...

Depending of course on what you find. If you find no evokables and no decent ranged weapons, but do find an earth book that would help, then that is better than nothing, but in a typical game, evokables and decent ranged weapons are much more common than an earth book with lrd in it. It seems obvio...

On LCS you say that it is just a bigger Iron Shot. This is not quite true; it is more powerful than IS, but its range is reduced to 3. I personally think that a level-8 spell should in all respects be at least as good as the corresponding level-6 spell. Sometimes I wonder whether it is really worth ...

Judging from the equipment lying around on the floor, I killed at least 16 monsters on that level (no new ones have spawned since my first visit, though). This tallies with what you write about the 3d10 monsters per floor. So not the experience, but only the size of the level was extraordinary.

If your Evo is already fine, then what about Invo, defences, fighting, ranged, or utility spells? I consider all of those to be better options than getting a different flavour elemental magic attack. Hmm, yes, but why? I still fail to see the rationale. Of course I also train dodging, and fighting....

So you are telling me that I should train another skill in order to not commit the sin of training a second elemental school, that would fix all my offensive problems (including killing Azrael when I meet him). That doesn't sound very convincing.

I've seen one or two quite underpopulated levels sometimes (often around D:11-D:14 or Depths:2-4ish?). And occasionally a rather small map... But this is pretty dramatic, if that's really all there is. I wonder, is the overall amount of XP in the game roughly fixed and the mobs that might be there ...

To make this idea really work, the software would have to gauge the IQ of the player, not the INT of the character. I think the programmers are not quite there yet.

Particularly when you almost died to get there...

I've seen this, too. Which is proof that I'm thanking people occasionally.

Because you don't get the information elsewhere, do you?

In my current game, the picture below shows you dungeon level 11 in its enirety. Yes, I have mapped the level, not believing what I saw with three upstairs and downstairs in this small space. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? How is one supposed to gain experience on levels like this? ###### ...

You're phrasing this as a hypothetical, but all spells did have LOS range in sufficiently old versions! The most broken spells were Silence (which was still broken after it got a range, then it got nerfed into oblivion), Evaporate (which got removed, thank god), Detect Creatures (which got removed,...

Doesn't seem to work for me. You can ask for all kinds of things, but I don't see mutations there.

Well, there should be some good reasons for players to consult the crawl wiki. Demonspawn mutations are one such reason.

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