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njvack wrote:Are you looking for something else, or are we done here? Devs themselves don't chime in on every thread.

judging by the number of responses, people are enjoying this thread as much as I am. It's not like I'm pointlessly bumping it. And I thought devs seldom even dive here. Feel free to close.

I didn't play Angband but it has nonpersistent dungeons, so the orientation of one level to another is meaningless there.

Eyesburn wrote:
Pollen_Golem wrote:A multi-character guide for beginners
Pollen_Golem wrote:Yeah well there are entire SPECIES and GODS that are bad for newcomers.
Newcomers should have fun, not frustration.

The price of tea in China just rose. Expand?

I suspect it has a lot to with how many traditional roguelikes have unmatched stairs. It's exactly the moment they deviated from the traditional roguelike by having multiple stairs on a single floor that flabbergasts me. The whole entire reason many traditional roguelikes have unmatched stairs is t...

Not a justification for using the more convoluted kind of stairs: Why does anyone need to justify it to you? Same reason DCSS justifies its design decisions - in broad abstractions and specific examples - in the lengthy design document. They didn't have to but they did. I've done my part in justify...

Some of [those combos] I would not recommend to newcomers. Yeah well there are entire SPECIES and GODS that are bad for newcomers. More than half of those combos are incontrovertible. But you see what the list is about? 26 species, 25 backgrounds, 22 gods, 28 combos. I'd like to see a better compil...

Oh so you mean like level-size crosses or huge open levels with pillars? Yeah, I dig these. Not a justification for using the more convoluted kind of stairs: Matching: like two boards superimposed with 3 holes drilled through them. Nonmatching: like two boards apart with 3 nips each, in different pl...

Point taken but Ru... in heavy armour . So Ru followers typically sac nimbleness? Qazlal .,..who don't cast damaging spells. But Qazlal also grants immunity to your own clouds, and renders moot a big drawback of the noisy earth/fire/conjuration magic. And I believe you could turn ye old mephitic clo...

also "vaults"... means "every little piece of dungeon that is not randomly generated" vaults... stairs... So, specifically the vaults which are closed-off rooms with a staircase or two inside? The pros and cons about matching vs nonmatching stairs with regards to vaults, are ver...

Sandman25 wrote:If you want to sacrifice a hand, play Sp with short blades or any species with UC IMHO

I tried to maximize the potential to use god abilities. Where a naga would invoke Ru, a Sp would run. Maybe a kobold???

Let's see how a typical crawl player probably starts his first few games (experienced spectators can correct me on this): MuDK (...) I'm already lost. Who would ever play a MuDK as a first character? Or even as one of the first 100? Cause it sounds cool. You're not gonna pore over guides before try...

Somebody actually believes the game is better off with nonmatching stairs, that it adds something? why make a thread if you are not going to read what other people post anyway What I got out of responses is: 1) C'mon, it's not that bad. I agree. 2) It's too hard to change now. OK, but you can't dis...

Also if you want to know where a given staircase might go on the floor below/above and you've traversed it, you can simply hit Shift-X, use > (or <) to move your cursor to the staircase in question, then use ] (or [) to move the map to the level adjacent and your cursor will be on the square where ...

"I don't have any trouble remembering where stairs go"-you remember which downstairs go to which upstairs? Ok, but there are 6 different ways to connect 2 inter-branch levels, none of them likelier than another. And there's a whole lot of levels. I do have trouble. Somebody actually believ...

Ah, so you object to the use of automation to deal with routine, non-challenging, non-threatening tasks. Good to know. Even if I had an electric wheelchair I wouldn't use it 100% of the time. Ah, so you object to intuitive and effortless shortcuts of habit. Good to know. non-threatening As great as...

hand is the greatest sac, most will avoid it, but you gotta try it out sometime. It's worst in late-game which is of limited concern here. Cleaving helps nagas who have trouble retreating to a corridor and get swarmed. And shields are rare enough that you might clear orc+lair without finding one. Cl...

the first level

When you fail and die early on as a novice, don't abandon the original plans you had for the character, don't tweak it by swapping the species, and instead, try it again and again until it works. But 1)you gotta pick a viable build so you're not chasing wild geese and 2)you don't want your next char...

OK, the mystery of "where will I end up?" is gone right after you've peeked through the three down-staircases. Case closed. A normal person can keep a rough multi-floor layout in their mind. Intuitive stair functionality (ie matching stairs) lets players plan a trek that visits unnecessary...

It's been like this forever, but it's a most mind-boggling design decision. IMO down-stairs in the top right corner should bring you to up-stairs in the top right corner. Same for trapdoors/springdoors and shafts.

I'm kinda stretching the definition of Beginner to mean ~ one inexperienced with half the gods/species.

tabstorm wrote:From there just try out different races, classes, and gods.

Spreading your efforts out over the hundreds of effective combos is a good way to induce Beginner's Ennui. Tell me I'm wrong.

Let's see how a typical crawl player probably starts his first few games (experienced spectators can correct me on this): MuDK HuFi OgFi OgGl OgBe DDBe MiBe TeBe DsNe DEWi HEHu SpBe SpAs SpAs SpAs MiFi of Zin MiFi of Okawaru MiFi of Fedhas I would argue that having no understanding of crawl leads to...

Winning is less about "builds" than it is about ... Perhaps this is most true. The builds I'm talking about are supposed to be best for discovering the game, not winning it. Not all ways of exploring DCSS are equal. And assessing the best way to learn the game takes a different set of ski...

You are such a funny guy Sar. It is a wiki, so you know, it's decentralized. I assume people just log in and edit the guides of others, so it wouldn't be *my* thing. The problem with more experienced players is that they may not even recognize the need for such a guide. It's all more about using mec...

There are good character guides for beginner players, and that's all great. What's missing on the wiki, though, is a recommendation for transitioning from one kind of character to another. I think beginners tend to flesh out their melee characters, trying out species after species but pursuing the s...

What would be the gameplay implications of these changes? I would appreciate any mention of why any similar redesigns may have been rejected. And I know they have come up in other threads, where they were not refuted AFAIK. Furthermore, both Makhleb and Nemelex went through drastic revisions for the...

I can fish out one of my old Makhbat morgues if you like. Nah, thanks. But does it crap out because you can barely damage anything, or because your defenses and panic buttons are really limited? Mu and Ko But they don't regenerate any faster than normal, so that's their problem with spamming Makhle...

Also, VS casting is not super great. They have only +10% more MP, and don't regenerate it any faster.

Yeah, Trolls are probably the second best, but their stealth/defenses are worse and it takes a longer time to get the relevant skills up to par. Also, innate hunger + slower regeneration (compared to VS) can get problematic eventually, if you spam Makhleb. I suppose debilitating enchantments are som...

In previous versions of DCSS I've tried to make characters rely on Invocations as their primary source of power, but failed. Now, the combination of Vine Stalker and Makhleb seems a very viable build. This is an inversion of the usual practice of combining Makhleb with species that have trouble heal...

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Re: What is rationale for up/down stairs disconnectedness?

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Re: A multi-character guide for beginners?

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Re: A multi-character guide for beginners?

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What is rationale for up/down stairs disconnectedness?

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Re: A multi-character guide for beginners?

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A multi-character outline to help people diversify builds?

Bloodgod/Cardgod/Tarotgod replacing Makhleb/Pakellas/Nemelex

Re: Vine Stalker "Blood Knight" of Makhleb=Invocation Specia

Re: Vine Stalker "Blood Knight" of Makhleb=Invocation Specia

Re: Vine Stalker "Blood Knight" of Makhleb=Invocation Specia

Vine Stalker "Blood Knight" of Makhleb=Invocation Specialist