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duvessa wrote:sometimes I wonder if people here even realize that statue form makes you slow

Sometimes I wonder if people realize that when you kill everything in a few hits it doesn't matter, at all.

After Statue Form an Op using UC becomes the most powerful build in the game This is a bold-ass claim TID Just my opinion, of course, but an octopode in statform with those attribute-enhancing rings is like a Cheidude without the drawbacks. I've never lost a statformer in extended, apart from getti...

duvessa wrote:yes, plate is better than either IDA or FDA, but you specifically compared IDA to FDA, and I do not believe that FDA is better than IDA

Ok, I agree. Unless one tries to play a hybrid with spells like SW and Regen etc., where FDA wipes the floor with IDA, always.

or perhaps making an enemy that is just a gearcheck of one specific resistance is a bad idea and you should fix that instead I think the goodness of rF is way worse than the role of MR in the early/midgame. If you don't find the right gear, you're bound to get hexed/petrified/marked/whatever and yo...

or perhaps making an enemy that is just a gearcheck of one specific resistance is a bad idea and you should fix that instead I don't see a "requirement" for rF or rC as a bad thing, especially as compared to just rF that everybody prepares for, making it a choice that really isn't one. At...

duvessa wrote:You can cast animate skeleton and animate dead in plate...or take off the plate temporarily to cast them (animate skeleton works fine at 0 skill).

Is this a real tactic? I'm a weak-ass goodplayer and couldn't imagine bothering with it.

duvessa wrote:ida is probably useful almost exactly as often as fda is

Is it? Every melee dude goes for either rF+ or MR plate AFAIK. IDA requires at least rF+ ring to patch rC-, and by the time those scales start to drop one is bound to hold it to FDA that gives good rF and just even rC doesn't bother anyone.

@ThreeInvisibleDucks: Well if you actually find a really good plate before Kiku altar, then probably don't take Kiku? IME branded leather armour and robes are much more common in earlygame, so there's a better chance you'll get your rF fix from one of those. I'd never go hybrid with a mummy with th...

And Felids should really be transmuters anyway, and Blade Hands plus some stealth stabs well enough for it being a non-issue, because a felid will just shread the poor bastard dead anyway if it wakes up.

Plus, you know what's easier to find in early D than a rare rf+ plate? And works better to fix rf-? A wall of undead slaves between you and that orc wizard! I wouldn't expect to find an early rF+ plate, but there's a good chance of finding it pre Depths or so. Any early plate will do, and the first...

There are many ways to go with a mummy, or with any other char. One is just pure melee, you train your weapon to min-delay, and fighting for HP, armour for AC, and dodging for EV. The benefit of concentrating on melee is that because mummies have lousy aptitudes everywhere, concentrating on just the...

I don't think you actually understand how good corpse drop with Animate Dead is. It's not like the spell is hard to cast, anyway, it's level 4. AS and AD are certainly nice, but so is a good plate. Would you not wear and enchant an rF plate early on, or would you rather keep casting AS? With a good...

duvessa wrote:kiku is good for practically everyone because he gives you animate skeleton/dead really early

Good advice only if you're willing to not go for the heaviest armour you'll find. Gimping your char by casting AS and not wearing plate is just braindead.

I think passwalling a stone wall, if it was extra slow, like 5 turns to get through, would be interesting and in no way game-breaking, because the same rules apply on the other side. You can't tele beforehand, because you'd tele before you got through, so you're left with the option of handling what...

In a regular game wearing and enchanting up an armour with rF+ or better is a no-brainer. Without getting extremely lucky with rF+ gear, nobody wears an IDA instead of an FDA ever, because in the end there be OoFs and more rF the better. But what if there was a counterpart like OoI or OoElec or some...

OpTm is in my opinion one of the easiest Op starts, when you know what forms to use when, and what monsters to avoid (hint: never fight hydras in melee until Statue Form.) After Statue Form an Op using UC becomes the most powerful build in the game and 15 runes is easy peasy. Clear a few Zigs while ...

tasonir wrote:Statue form unarmed will usually kill him in about 3-4 good rolls.

Statue Form is the hammer that makes every encounter a nail. Superior offense is always the best defense.

With a strong enough melee dude, I prefer taking a hatch down and going from there. Without a hatch, stairdance until stairlock, then blink or tele out, until in a good position. Kill everybody. With a caster, blink away and ?immolate + Fire Storm the welcoming party dead, then others. Have channeli...

statueform actually deals less damage than blade hands it also obviously deals less damage than dragon form All true, but HP+30% + shield gives it the best damage dealt/damage received ratio in the regular game, and 50% torment resistance makes it the most tabbable all-rune tech. Edit: Blade Hands ...

Because of the crappy aptitudes, just a straightforward melee dude is quite feasible: 15 runes, no spells.

Oka is the default for a fighter, she often grants some useful gear and a good weapon. Evokables are doubleplusgood as a mummy because no hunger.

Stone being unbreakable would be one thing, but being not, I think that a (slow) way of passwalling through ("warning: phasing through stone is slow!") would make for an interesting tactical choice.

With merfolks' aptitudes, I think that anything not going for two-handed polearms and Spectral Weapon is a bit of a waste. It's Crawl easy mode.

Statform + UC:27 > holy bardiche + Spectral Weapon >> everything else.

I've code-dived a few times to try to figure out some game mechanics before, and I find Crawl source code to be more complex than I'd imagine to be necessary. One example: because of the integer math, many times there are just too many lines of code that just deal with rational numbers, when just on...

There are two ways to play a "hybrid" melee fighter: the skald way, or the fighter way. The skald gets the buffs online early on: Spectral Weapon, Regen, et al, and doesn't wear armour heavier than a scale mail, or a light dragon armour, for a good part of the game. The fighter just wears ...

Is there a simple way to figure out the STR "requirement" for different armors? ~ER is a good approximation. With a pure fighter, I'd increase Str to ~20 or so, put the rest to Dex, but never increase Dex over 24 with items. With Str 20, if one is willing to fetch all the runes, it's poss...

As to the OP's question: IMO the best builds for an Op are Tm, IE, and EE. Tm gets forms from the get go up to Blade Hands that gives enough killing power to win the game. IE has Ozocubu's Armour, the best AC buff spell in the game. EE has Stoneskin, even AC+2 helps a lot, and Sandblast wipes out mo...

So, what you're saying is.... you recommend Op for zigs? In my experience, yes ! By the time you can deal with Zigs, you've access to very powerful rings (if the RNG wasn't too mean). Having more slots (overall) than any other race makes you stronger. You'll easily get ~15-20 AC, Haste and at least...

I don't think save+main menu is possible. I can't think of a use case where one would need to do that though. Protip: take a break from the spriggans, they play quite differently to most other species, and roll a berserker/fighter/gladiator. I started crawling by playing those squishy spriggans, mos...

IJust found: +1 Ring Mail of Fujai (*Corrode +Blink +10 INT +4 DEX)... I'm not sure how debilitating the corrode thing is, but anyway, I just posted this because I thought the +10 to INT was kind of crazy. Wish I was playing the aforementioned MfGl, if the corrode isn't that bad. +1 ring mail is we...

Ok, I have to agree. The "Hurph" ring is just about as good as it gets, octopode or not, and barring ridiculous ring luck it's even zigbustingly good, as Tiktacy pointed out. Robustness {AC+8} is definitely god tier, but would you rather wear it instead of this one? That's a solid "go...

The shield increases the ratio of damage dealt/damage received, so I never ditch the shield until I find a two-hander. Although I also never train it, unless I stumble upon an especially great one-hander early on. Octopode fighter being the exception.

Not quite god-tier, but this one has a whole lot for my octopode just about to tackle the Lair runes (Swamp/Snake): y - the ring "Hurph" (right tentacle) {rPois MR+ AC+3 Str+2 Dex+5} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) No prior rPois, MR+ puts the total to 3 pips, Dex+...

IIRC, Umbra reduces both monster and player accuracy by 1d4+1; so EV-wise it's close to that EV+3 ring you have. But if one takes the player's accuracy penalty into account, I'd use the EV+3 ring if I didn't benefit from the 1.5x stealth boost, SInv, or +Inv.

I can't agree with a couple points you made in this thread though. How do stabbers hit a wall around Lair runes if Spider, Shoals and Swamp are full of enemies who can't see invisible? Maybe "hitting a wall" is a bit of an exaggeration, but in my experience stabbers, especially with hexes...

If you can fight monsters 1-on-1, which you should try to do always, the best killing skill is whatever deals most damage. I recently got my first ranged win with a KoHu, and the main problem was running out of bolts in the early game, which means that one needs to train a weapon skill anyway. So in...

a guide for getting 15 runes should be exactly the same as a guide for getting 3 runes at least up until zot, otherwise it is bad advice Although I generally agree with this, I ran a HESk who tried to get Tornado online comparatively early. This made the extended game much smoother from the get go,...

by the way it's also completely okay for okawaru to be the unarmed combat god heroism for weapons is still good but it's like a 30~40% damage increase or something, not the 100% you get for UC (also it's a bit harder to value how good it is, since you change your xp investment because of min delay ...

Apparently I'm pretty much alone with my view that Oka's abilities are crazy strong even for species that can't use the weapon and armour gifts.

My take from this thread is that apparently there are even stronger gods than Oka, so she shouln't be nerfed.

So the god that gets mentioned the most aparf from Trog is Fedhas here. So somewhat ironically, from this thread the idea that should be though about, is nerfing Fedhas, not Oka, even though I still maintain that Oka is OP.

Thank you for your comments, Lasty, and dynast, I've found both to be valuable and interesting. I admit that I look at the game through the lense of punching everything dead, so it hasn't really occured to me that the whole punching thing might be wrong

As for other gods, I've outlined the reasons why Oka is "optimal" in the early and midgame. Unless you address those, just name-dropping gods isn't going to cut it. Sure, oka is optimal during all stages of the game, those other gods i named are just better. Trog rage is stronger than her...

As for other gods, I've outlined the reasons why Oka is "optimal" in the early and midgame. Unless you address those, just name-dropping gods isn't going to cut it. Sure, oka is optimal during all stages of the game, those other gods i named are just better. Trog rage is stronger than her...

ou're right, I don't, because I think scrolling through three completely different replies by you is annoying when you could condense them into one post. But even though I could read minds, I couldn't know what people would want to discuss about. If this thread is all too obvious to you, I'm sorry....

View: reply button is too good compared to others; quick reply is OP I do appreciate the snarky comment, but you don't really contribute to the conversation. You're right, I don't, because I think scrolling through three completely different replies by you is annoying when you could condense them i...

I would never ditch oka over mak for extended, mak is a good god for beginners since it rewards suboptimal play and, by the time you are doing extended, you no longer need to care about optimal play. Im surprised you didnt mention the "brokeness" of oka's needle stabber gift pack. Btw, i ...

I admit I have no experience with Fedhas, a little bit with Trog here and there. Apparently Oka, Trog, and Fedhas are the obvious deities, and the others not so much. Maybe all those 3 need a nerf then, if they are the obvious choices? maybe you should try actually playing with other gods before co...

For lethediver : I very much do agree that Makh is too good in extended compared to anything else, and it's a problem that needs addressing. As for my view that Oka is too good early on, I maintain that the point is valid. +5 combat skills with Heroism, and double damage with Finesse are so strong a...

I agree with your point about Mak in extended much more than I do your point about Oka. Everyone who's anyone agrees Mak is the go-to god for extended and zigs and I would argue that hurts the game a lot worse than one guy's rather uncommon opinion of Oka's broken-ness. I highly suspect the only re...

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