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updated for 0.19

mostly agree with minmay's quoted post as surprising as that is

I think Gozag should be ranked way higher in pan/hell/tomb because you should have a massive gear advantage from him by that point. While I agree with the massive gear advantage part, that isn't any reason to stick with Gozag. Imho optimal gozag play is to summon as many shops as possible and then ...

MainiacJoe wrote:Bumping this up because I think it's actually substantive compared to most of its competition lately.

i think the image could use some work, since the altars are actually lined up and spaced consistently - hard for me to process as a crawl tier list image

Part time.

to be honest, an effort was made to place felid as low as was reasonably possible. It could've easily been higher.

bottle everything

Quickblade with an additive brand is very good but not easy to get, and rapier/short sword are serviceable but you probably want to switch to a demon/double.

vampires also can't use lich form

Updated, s/random/median

@gammafunk I think it's interesting for new players to learn that Fedhas is strong though. Also:

gammafunk wrote:I want tier lists for species and backgrounds DrKe. Don't care whether the idea makes sense or not.

I've given you what you want and still you want more!

tabstorm wrote:I would put Ds in B-tier for "Best Role" and move Ha up to A

Ds was one of the most debated over actually, it couldve gone either way pretty much.

A consensus was reached (between zxc and I) to create this, so it's even more irrefutable than past Western offerings.

Primary criteria: movespeed, HP, abilities, apts.

WingedEspeon wrote:Gozag needs to be moved up early game

You were quite right.

Due to all the attention this got I did a minor update, early gozag gets +.Extended Kiku gets +, as imo he's better than the other gods in that tier in most circumstances.

Vp is strong because batform.

The extended list is moreso "ease of doing extended" rather than outright survivability, since I think most any build has enough options not to die in extended. Gods like Kiku/Beogh can be better than where I put them if you use a lot more effort. I took a lot of feedback when making the l...

GreatCK is done.

Requesting PW, I'll try to contribute a win or two more.

Pollen_Golem wrote:what changed? did you move jiyva upwards?

since the last version: http://pastebin.com/diff.php?i=7jNNVar2

there were a few other changes that i didn't update the thread for prior to that, if you check the subjective chei image

Updated for 0.17 stable

If you're playing trunk, GSC requires 6 more skill to get mindelay so I go with GC most games unless i find an enchanted/arte GSC.

In 0.16, you could make an argument either way in your case since the GC already had an enchant, but typically GSC was the better pick.

If you aren't using conj, vehu would be E+ early and, at best, C+ mid. You know my original statement wasn't "not using Conj" it was "not using Conj as primary offense". IE in "PANHELLTOMB" it's perfectly reasonable to kill most things with a melee weapon, but have LCS...

If you aren't using conj, vehu would be E+ early and, at best, C+ mid.

DrKE: You've solved the age old dilemma of where to rank Chei by placing Chei at both the top and bottom! Brilliant! By the way, this is not sarcasm :) How would you feel about this wording for subjective Chei - Subjective chei is where you build your character around your god (chei), rather than p...

no worries, i totally understand the desire to be drunk when you're playing DD of lugonu, and it got an annoying combo out of the way, it was an easy char to play after ditching lugonu regardless of the chain tbh

use elec whip until you can pain brand a dire flail or demon whip

Ah, someone took pity on my lengthy attempts to win the CeIE on CAO and finished it. It was a strong character but I was having a lot of trouble with OOFs. Best thing I got from this run was experiencing god wrath (Oka), which I triggered a couple of times by accidentally shooting my own skellies. ...

OgMo^Zin done on CPO w/ invo title.

How do you reconcile Cheibriados being the most successful species high score speed run god (ie, 15 rune extended games) with placing chei in the D tier for extended? I can't for the life of me find the thread where I tallied the gods of species high score runs, but if anyone else can, let me know....

how do you expect people to know what S is supposed to stand for

http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... a70483dbcd

WingedEspeon wrote:Imo Chei should be higher in post champion, but maybe even lower in early game. Nemlex should be higher in post champion. Xom is ranked too high.

i've updated this a lot since then, i'll probably make another thread for 0.17 when i'm done

HEAM of Chei is not good for beginners though, nor is it a good high elf, arcane marksman, or chei character

I'm not a big fan of thinking of characters as XxXx of (god) , there are a lot of gods that are viable for any given combo and you should just decide after finding an altar whether you feel like trying that god or not. Beginners can look up how said god works and decide if they want to play it.

i think we can call this a secret tech still

njvack wrote:You might also brand the qblade if you have a scroll around.

fsimming a vine stalker sounds tricky because it can't really count the value of antimagic bites. Yeah, you want the death yak to die but you really really want the OOF to not hurt you.

I strongly agree.

also he's an OpAs

he actually did not give sufficient information

there are many, many scenarios where the qb would win on a VS or even on a non VS

it was an expression of how much better the rapier is for his character

acvar wrote:
DrKe wrote:even on a VS the rapier wins

I strongly disagree.

i said that after fsimming it to test

Wow, that's rude... What brand could make the qblade better ? Just got pierce... What configuration makes a qblade useful ? per hit brands (disto, pain, elec, draining, chaos to some extent), being a VS, slaying items also a fast elec weapon is hard to beat, something like a freezing rapier would f...

Rumbleguts wrote:True story. I am related to the inventor of the artificial diamond.

well met, false heir of zirconia

for confused/distracted clearly speed since the first stabbing attempt might not kill, for asleep doesn't really matter, vamp i guess in case you have taken damage somehow

even on a VS the rapier wins

i preferred "medium-sized creature prone to great ambition"

are there any other posts i should thank to help foster an environment of persecution? i dont want our plans to fail

where's my best buddy sar when we need him

i tested some stuff in csdc before actually playing it

iirc tedronai did too but it didn't save him from the gnoll sergeant of doom

btw i don't really like doing zigs

I don't say that clearing a zig to Makh is dumb. However, going trough the "ordeal" of switching from a god with extremely good powers to clear a zig (or extended if we want to include that in the point) and an harsh wrath, to another one who provides a different benefit, but forces the p...

For clearing a single zig, the dumb part is enduring Veh wrath when Veh is perfectly viable for clearing the zig in the first place. Probably a couple zigs with Veh would be just fine as the zig scaling isn't terribly steep. I've experienced older Veh wrath, and it wasn't trivial even then. New wra...

On the basis Vehumet is an extremely good God (especially if using Firestorm) to clear a single ziggurat, and personally I'd keep him, for all the reasons above-mentioned, rather than switching god, even if the option is Makh sure, that's a viable route to take, but why would that make an alternati...

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