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The easiest solution is not giving nets to gnolls. Nets in the later game are not that dangerous. Although you could argue that the early game became easier and easier with newer versions, so removing every lethal threat would make it a little bit pointless. I do not know what is the balance we aim ...

Crawl is very random anyway, so a little bit extra randomness from wanderer start does not matter as much in my opinion. I started with a perfectly ok wanderer, and I died on D2 because gnolls netted me two times in a row. In fact it was worse than dying on D1 due to a bad start, because I have just...

Well, I could have played better there - I play very badly in the early game - but yes, dying right after reaching level 5 on the CSDC challence because of double net feels bad. I looked forward to a fun challenge

Gnolls are very scary!

He sacrificed artifice.

I feel that the biggest danger in DCSS is to have too many monsters in your LOS.

I actually would support to create a race with nightstalker, and remove it from the random DS mutation list. 1.) Nightstalker is way too powerful for a random mutation. In a race, like kobold, it can be somewhat balanced with frail, slow movement, bad aptitudes, weak stats, etc. It does not need to ...

I guess people's experience differs, but I found casters to be easier when I was a new player. But it was probably because they were really so much easier in that ancient version? Who knows what would happen now.

Anecdote: my first win was with a deep elf caster, despite trying to win minotaur berserkers as well. For me it illustrates that the strength of the combination is not that important for novices. I think that combinations where it is easier to figure out an OK tactic are much better. Melee tactics a...

Maybe if your assumption about AC builds having to fight up close would be true then I would partially agree. But even then, the difference here is simply too big. Removing your EV can easily quadruple the incoming damage of an AC build, that is too big of a difference to balance well. But AC builds...

Not all build (or rather, defence) should be equally effected by statuses in general. If every attack treats defences the same, then there is not really any point in having different defences in the first place. I do not feel that clarity is the problem here. After all, as I mentioned, flavour may f...

I think that from a game design viewpoint paralysation either should not remove your EV, or should also remove your AC, but in any way, should affect all defences equally. Right now if paralysation is an ok threat to builds with AC, it is too strong against EV builds, and if it is ok against EV, it ...

My feeling is exactly that it can. If you happen to stand next to a wall maybe not even 8 is needed to block walking. And I definitely remember the serpent to blink monsters that were not in my LOS (but probably in the serpent's LOS). Maybe good players somehow know in advance where it can happen, a...

raikaria: Sharpshooters DOES see invisible. Invisibiliity does not work against any of the nagas. Was this changed recently? I would also like to warn newer players that your blinking idea is also very bad. You do not need to risk a bad blink. You can easily and safely kite the sharpshooter wherever...

I am not sure, VeryAngryFelid, I feel that if every school has summoning spells that would make even more spellcasters to use summons. Evocations/invocations/Charms etc. still has their own schools, despite not supporting a "pure" playstyle. Also, as far as I know the XP penalty also affec...

As for the rest of your comments, it seems to me that the you are saying "heads I win, tails you lose". Honestly, it is not because I want to win some online fight with the great debater bel, but because I focus on the design issue in a design thread, instead of things I do not consider i...

duvessa's two "solutions" are obviously a false choice because nobody in their right mind will choose the second solution Well, sometimes we do not agree, so I guess you won't be suprised that I personally would prefer the second solution. Yes, that would indeed be a very different game, ...

(except Blink Frogs because they are fast and you cannot pillar-dance as easily). Wolf are fast, non poisonous and somewhat dangerous also. Porcupines are also fast I think. And spriggans. I do not know too many dangerous enemies in Lair where pillar dancing with the regen amulet would work. WIth y...

I am sure amulet of regen won't change anything here I do not get it. Is this poison damage immediate? Because I thought that it is just damage over time, which is prevented by the amulet because you regen faster. Unless you have severe, red poison, but to get that from frogs you probably got too m...

To be fair, this Op has an amulet of regen, which in my experience greatly decreases that 14-28 poison damage. Also, 1 potion of curing after you killed the monster can also substantially reduce the poison damage, but not the base damage. I, personally, have no idea how to evaluate which is more use...

i think at some point y'all forgot that the net takes a turn to throw, can miss, and gets torn after 4 to 7 turns I used nets to get away from the (ancient) lich, sinse I thouth that it will stop it following me for a while and I can break LOS in that time, and retreat to some better terrain. I wou...

If this is an accurate description and I'm understanding you correctly, it is better than a 15% reduction in cast rate would make it appear, because it substantially reduces the lich's ability to cast several spells in a row - this is what kills you. If it would have cast LCS, LCS, LCS, now instead...

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I feel like our discussion is meaningless. Late game gives you more options indeed but early game you don't need them, it is enough to just retreat by walking.

In the late game it is still enough to just retreat by walking, if you explore manually and slowly, just like in the early game.

For Berder and VeryAngryFelid, I would like to talk about the experience and feelings of a much worse player than you, to explain why I do not believe you, despite I admit than I am worse. Here are some of my feelings when I attempted to streak: Attempt one. After a win, start some octopode. On D2, ...

| Vaults:1 | Cast into the Abyss (deep elf demonologist) Well, it happened with me. My feeling was: I should not let the demonologist have LOF on me. Use zombies/apocalipse/imprison etc. Of course I never do it, there are too many demonologists and I am not a masochist. My feeling was not: Oh, it i...

Well, yes I feel this would be my pattern if I were able to streak more than 2. But you also do use autoexplore lately. What is your feeling about the deaths, namely the level 19, 17, 23, 23 ones? You do not feel that: 1. They were preceded by like 10 boring dungeon levels where there were no threat...

Well, on one hand, I heard this version from those who mock it. On the other hand, Lair being a turning point is coincides with my personal experience. I am simply not good enough to reliably reach lair (with weaker combinations), I sometimes die and I do not know what should I had done differently....

I would not read too much into those streaks. Some just repeat the same combination like DDFi over and over, and those who talk about the early game being harder usually the same who say that DD is stupid, so they may not consider it at all. And some are from very late versions. The first 22 games o...

sanka wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Yes, monsters with constriction are very dangerous to Sp.

You do not need to meele them. Really. No, never. I had like 10 blink scrolls to escape constriction, and they cannot kill me in a few turns. I just stopped caring.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Yes, monsters with constriction are very dangerous to Sp.

You do not need to meele them. Really. No, never. I had like 10 blink scrolls to escape constriction, and they cannot kill me in a few turns.

Well, I, too, often do the same. What I am trying to say is that you are not wrong about late game being hard/harder, but you (or more likely Berder) use(s) this word in a very different context, hence a very different meaning. But still in a tone that suggest that those that say that the early game...

I do realize that Berder has streaks. And I am honestly curious if how he uses autoexplore early and late. I am not talking about unavoidable deaths. I am talking about making deliberatly bad strategic and tactical decisions to make the game more bearable in the mid- and late game. The example of th...

You call this a statement a "meme" because you use the word "easy" with a different meaning, dragging the usual statements out of context (and, as usual for such arguments, exacerbating it so it looks more false). This is especially noticable for your En example, which seems to i...

It cannot paralyse or banish you if it does not have LOF. You can hide behind your orcs and smite it, for example. (Although it may paralyse of banish your orcs, then.)

I think these Berder's tavern memes meme is a little bit overstretched here. If somebody thinks that Mu with Gozag should be prevented to wait a lot, then surely adding piety decay to Gozag is a more logical solution. Removing potion petition for Mummies makes sense to me. Non Gozag mummies currentl...

I think that your confusion comes from the fact that you use the word "easy" in a different meaning than those who say that the game is easy. They usually mean that "easy if you are patient enough". And I feel that you claim that it is not easy because it is hard to be patient en...

By the way, Berder, I admired your NaWn streak, really. Altough I must admit I mostly admired that you were able to consitently reach Lair (maybe middle Lair) with that combo. I did not feel that the rest of the game is very hard with a NaWn.

I have about 6 games suspended in Vaults/Depths/extended branches because it takes too much energy to keep the characters alive so I am sure that "late/middle game is easy" is just a meme. Are you sure you did not make conducts, like bad skilling and weak gods? Because I think not everybo...

Calling statements you do not agree with "memes" does not make them false. Calling something a "meme" that I never ever saw anybody saying on tavern is a little strange. It seems more likely an attempt to discredit the people you do not agree with. As an example, statistics being...

I think that the goal is to have a clock that does not prevent normal play (with autoexplore, long travels to items, etc.) but makes waiting 5000 turns on every level impossible. Food currently somewhat achieves this, if we ignore the multitude of problems (inventory hassle, different races, spell h...

Ok, maybe the flavour was more of a background. How about this:

Alien
1. You cannot enter Lair. This area is lethally toxic to you.
2. You automatically eat 2 out of three teleport scrolls.

If you want a harder game, the easiest way to accomplish it would be another XP nerf in the early mid-game. If you like, removed Lair, ... Maybe reduce the number of teleport scrolls too. Challenge race idea: Environmentalist 1. You refuse to enter Lair to protect the habitat of endangered species....

Everything is weighted by the number of games. Well, this is not true, or, if interpreted differently, this is one of the problem with your statistics. It is biased by the number of combo selections, which is especially bad since there is a huge number of difference between the games played on cert...

Well, I did not interpret the question for just damage spells. Besides the advice for LRD being very useful all game is very good. You are absolutely right that DMSL cannot be casted without at least some charms/air trainig, not even with wizardry. But I read this part only that you do not need a ve...

It's an illustration to show him how a blaster character can be skilled, at just around the point in the game he is having trouble with. I know you think that there are two type of characters (blasters and brutes), so skilling is the same, but I must say I am not convinced. He asks how he can deal ...

Perhaps this is clearer: Score of a class c = (\Sum_{r in races} games(r,c) * (wins(r,c)/games(r,c) - baseline(r,c))) / (total games with class c). baseline(r,c) represents the baseline winrate for that race, excluding games by that class. Specifically: baseline(r,c) = (\Sum_{c2 in classes, c2 != c...

Also, I am a little bit puzzled that NaCK being better than CeCj does not bother you.

Classes are reordered to account for the difficulty of the races that they were tried with, and vice versa for races. For classes, this process involves looking at which proportions of races the class was tried with. Then, look at the baseline expected winrate for that composition of races, using t...

I did do exactly this for the graphical chart. It's not possible to do it in a simpler sequell query. You can see that the classes in the graphical chart are not sorted precisely by win percentage (the numbers in the margin); this is because the ranking is adjusted also for race difficulty. Well, I...

Suppose you are tasked with the manager of the DCSS development group at your company to balance the weapon groups, but you are only allowed to change the damage, and let other variables and features untouched. The manager's expert advice team decided that maces should be used as the baseline. Which...

Beder: I am not sure if you have done much statistics apart from DCSS. But I would like to point out for you that a statistics like this is completely meaningless: you obtained percentages without taking into account other factors that can affect difficulty. In particular, it seems obvious that race...

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