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This is the best title for a thread I've ever seen in this forum.

I will say this...if this project is to continue in any form, the devs seriously need to find a better mouthpiece than dpeg. His posts in this thread are some of the most arrogant I've ever seen out of a game developer. He doesn't seem to realize that he's flamed anyone who disagrees with him worse ...

I didn't like the labyrinth just because its a whole lot of repetitive nothing and the starvation is a bigger danger than the minotaur. If you want to replace any vaults, replace that one.

the Troll (if anything) plays more like a classical Minotaur How do you know how a classical Minotaur played ... did the Ancient Greeks release a Roguelike I'm not aware of? Minotaur (classical) -lives in a maze (Labyrinth) -creation of bestiality -eats human flesh RAW -doesn't appear to have had a...

At the risk of getting banned, the Minotaur in Crawl is about as different from classical minotaur as the Tolkien Dwarf is from Nordic "Svartalf". Nowhere in classical mythology were Minotaurs weaponmasters who wear heavy armor and worship a berserker god. The Minotaur in this game is more...

So its okay to cut dwarves but a terrible crime to cut High Elf (the ULTIMATE stereotypical Tolkien race?) Some tropes get repeated because they work. Sentient cats and octopi crawling around is getting way too deep into the weird scale. Might as well put killer robots back into the game if this is ...

Octopode is a gimmick because it is completely dependent on one type of equipment.

Or the devs could have listened to the community and cut minotaurs instead, since they were far less popular as a player race. The Labyrinth levels were a terrible design and filled with the stupid "starvation difficulty" Crawl was supposed to avoid. Removing them would change the overall ...

I'm done with Crawl. Cutting a VERY popular player race instead of finding a way to differentiate it smacks of lazy design. What happened to the "make dwarves small size" talk? Its pretty clear this game is run by elitists who want to make the early game so insanely difficult that it will ...

Forest branch in place of Hive (it could be a new, and more varied, "food branch" than Hive)

The cold res would only apply to their feet because halflings aren't particularly hairy on the rest of their bodies.
If you want to incorporate the big feet, how about giving them Stealth + in exchange for the inability to wear shoes?

+1, but only because I think distortion properties should be exclusive to Lugonu among the gods, it fits her gimmick.

They're still a rather limited class in terms of flexibility, but they are very good at what they do...AND they finally get Mutation Res +1, which many suggested for flavor! When did this finally get implemented?
I'm impressed.

I like idea overall but think they should have Fire +0 instead of Fire -1. They are linked to geothermal energy and Earth and Fire go well together (volcanoes).

Good point.

All the other species in Crawl are based on existing animals or public domain mythology -- a player new to the game can probably guess what a Centaur, Octopode, or Vampire is going to be like (and a player sufficiently familiar with esoteric mythology could hazard a guess about Spriggans, Nagas, an...

Why did the idea to give monks staves for starting weapons get scrapped? it would've been a unique reason to pick Monk.

I actually think the idea of incorporating Baraka's race (or at least something that closely resembles it) into Crawl is quite interesting, and the idea of a melee race without rings is pretty daring. I also think this race would benefit from the implementation of the long awaited stealth/thief god....

Crawl already has enough nutpunches, even with the hunger mechanic, to consider making it even less forgiving.

Run, Spriggan, run. That's how you handle the early game. You can outrun almost anything in the game PERIOD, and certainly anything you encounter in the shallow part of the dungeon. Jellies are a nasty early foe but can easily be outrun; Imps and Phantoms are the bigger dangers, but both teleport ar...

I've never played a caster Ogre. I suspect they would be best as a "fighter first, caster second" rather than the other way around though. The HP increase is vital to them, so exploit it and gain Fighting levels.

Ogres that are actually usable PCs? (After a long, long time...)

Do whips get a damage bonus versus bats?

For once, OgBe actually seems like a valid rival to TrBe. The increased HP bulk and Fighting and Maces skills make for a much more valid character. They finally feel like true ogres now--my current one is on Floor 5 of the Dungeon, which is much farther than my old Ogres typically got. It looks like...

The biggest change is that heavy armor is actually a viable defense now. That is huge for might-based characters.

If Ogres finally got an upgrade, its all good in the hood.

Mystic warrior sounds more appropriate than Crusader, given the magic fixation of the class IMO.

Spriggans are actually quite close to this. The only difference is +3 to Spellcasting rather than +4.

I wouldn't mind him getting powerful wands occasionally, but I hate it when I hit an early unique with polymorph. A wonderful way of getting a nasty mutation before you have an adequate coping strategy. Frost, fire, etc. are slightly less nasty.

The game does desperately need more than 3 "good" gods in the selection panthion. I'd like to see Okawaru modified somehow into a "good" god to make his play style feel less of a Trog-like hack and slash. Trog could become the new "evil" god. A god of summons/necromancy...

Oh, THAT vault? One time I found one that had a Jelly in it and I was trying to avoid it but the jelly ate the door and all the vermin swarmed out and killed me.

I think Fighting at least provides some difference between partial melee casters (SE Tr and MF Cr are typical examples) and things like Deep Elves that should avoid melee wherever possible. What I'd like to see is Fighting's link to HP have some racial difference. It would make more sense for things...

I like the existing god flavor texts (like "Fedhas appreciates your contribution to the ecosystem" alot, but I think that alot of the gods are missing this cool touch. Could the final version of 0.8 have flavor texts for all the gods? Here are some ideas I had... Lugonu: You feel your soul...

Why should Goblins have poor dodge? I like the idea of an inferior race that levels faster than humans, but give them at least some good apts. For example, if they like "trickery", why can't they be good Transmuters? (turning into a spider is a "magic trick" more than OMG SUPER F...

I can understand disliking the Oka system of just picking the god in hopes of striking it rich on the item lottery, but for some gods (Yred) the permanent allies are some of the best assets that the god can give you. I do agree that the Beogh method needs to be reworked somewhat (since you can easil...

I always thought Lugonu was supposed to be a support god for classes who wanted some Translocation abilities without having to worry about magic stats anyway. I'd be loath to change the established gifter gods too much (unless if you gave them a bigger list of random gift choices, though).

So ghouls can have 0 int yet still live since they have no sentience (or life)? This is an interesting development...must be in trunk.

For some reason, I wanted to see a ridiculously powerful endgame Kobold Samurai thingy the moment "katana wielder" came up. Kobolds use light armor and are sort of a dodgy race, so I can see a high-level, uncommonly intelligent kobold as a unique "fencer" who could wield a katana.

Oka doesn't give permanent sidekicks to hide behind though. The gifts are useful but usually you can find a few good res sources on your own.

If they're Shrek, shouldn't they at least get the racial skill Summon Donkey? It would help with those pesky kobolds...

Yred seems to be a great choice for Merfolk Crusaders. The zombies provide great shielding for the character, and the intelligent pets can be useful killing machines. Having so much to hide behind/coordinate with is extremely useful for a character tyoe with naturally low AC, and seems to outshine t...

Difficulty rankings for races is a cool idea, but its still rather bizarre that a character that is basically a housecat is actually a much more usable character than the ogres are! I can understand power creep, but most of the newer classes (DDs, Felids, Vamps) seem to have at least some sort of fa...

I was playing the latest trunk build and my MdFi's heavy armor finally seems to be useful for something! Is trunk finally going to fix the overnerfed armor? It seems to be "just right" now as opposed to the "too good" of 0.45 and the "too weak" of 0.7.

Giants would have to have some real restrictions though to be viably different from Ogres/Trolls. Maybe have 200% EXP requirements (level at half the speed of humans/orcs) and the ability to randomly mature into Fire, Frost, or Titans?

A surprising amount of dangerous early game stuff IS meph resistant. Jellies, Imps (don't laugh), and phantoms are all immune.

They did upgrade Gnomes into Deep Dwarves, so there is hope I guess. It's hilarious how weak Crawl Ogres are in comparison to, say Warhammer Ogres. Its like they're the ogre race's equivalent of the Washington Redskins.

From the last thread on Ogres I noted a number of recurring themes: 1. People want a "tanky magic user" character in the vain of the old Ogre Mage class. 2. Ogres suck at tanking, removing one of their biggest assets (high HP) 3. Ogres are a crappy challenge class instead of I'M A BIG MEAN...

Centaurs have enough stacked against them with the high hunger and crap casting as it is...but horses don't really turn that well, for the most part.

What about just going to -1 dodge for centaurs? That way, they can still conceivably get dodge, just at a slower rate.

Crazy Yiuf seems to spawn in 75% of the games I've played--chaos is actually one of the more common early brands.

I want Felids to have a +3 dodge, cats have really good reflexes. Only the "supernatural" race (Spriggans) deserves higher.

DEs are way too glass cannon-y to ever be viable as melee. Maybe you should request for HE to have higher staff apts instead? I think they'd be slightly less squishy.

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