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So it's next to you now and I presume the 1.4 turn delay happens after they move? So now you can melee them and they have a 1.4 turn delay after you hit them before they can hit you back. But you should only be able to hit them after that 1.4 turn delay because only then will they be beside you. Se...

A quick recap You pretty much objectively summed everything, I think. We all seem to agree that current model is no good. Both euclidean or squarelos would be better. I'm wondering if having this as an runtime option is a possibility. OT. Am I the only one who finds ASCII beautifully? Maybe it's be...

I don't think you understand the purpose of that post; it was not to argue for squarelos/chebyshev, or give any drawbacks of a pretend-euclidean system, but to illustrate that the matter is grounded heavily in taste. Agree. I just like circles, dislike squares. That was the thing that sold me to DC...

You wouldn't charge more time for moving button-press right than left unless there's an absolutely fantastic reason, and you shouldn't charge more time for moving one button-press diagonal up-right unless there's an absolutely fantastic reason. OT, but you just made me realize that we could have a ...

bringing up again (even I forgot!) that it's not even true euclidean and also inconsistent: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=3988#p3988 the first question here: will you embrace these inconsistencies or try to ignore them and pretend it's euclidean? Of course I'll ignore this. The po...

I could go on, but what is the point. This is simply an example of aesthetics over function, and no amount of reason will win the argument. That's the problem with discussing this. I've started this thread and watched it for a long time. Many people are claiming there is a lot of reasons not to lik...

minmay wrote:Not on a grid, it isn't.

And why is that?

Circular LOS / spell radii is simply an attempt to simulate a false "realism" at the expense of consistency. Euclidean is consistent and more real. Consistency of square LoS is not an argument against euclidean geometry. This is weak argument anyway. Should all items have the same weight ...

zrn wrote:But uh, in all seriousness, square line of sight sounds like the easiest and most suited solution to the los problem, if you could even call it that. It just makes more sense.

This is not an argument against euclidean geometry.

If you start charging variable time for moving from tile to tile, you undermine the entire point of measuring distance by tiles in the first place. If you want realistic Euclidean movement, then you are not going to be well-served by any sort of grid at all. I don't agree. The grid gives some stati...

MrMisterMonkey wrote:upsets purists like me (but who cares about them).

I consider myself a puritist too.

. And current model with mixed movement and LoS is definietly not puritist friendly.

galehar wrote:
MrMisterMonkey wrote:True euclidean (...) but would create several other problems.

Which should be easy to fix or are non-issues.

MrMisterMonkey wrote:Even then it won't be true euclidean space, even looking past chunky squares and other aliasing silliness; there will still be multiple shortest paths between a whole bunch of pairs of squares, and there is nothing you can do about that.

Could you please elaborate and give some examples?

I just think "square" would fit with how dorky this game really is. If you want real-world type game dynamics, play World of Warcraft. Don't try to get too cute or real with a game that is ultimately based on an 80x43 ASCII box. It can't be done without introducing some weirdness that is ...

If there is a delay penalty for moving diagonally, but no delay penalty for attacking diagonally, then you have a significant inconsistency in one of the most critical game situations: where a character is wanting to move out of melee range and the monster is wanting to melee the character. That in...

There are a bunch of reasons why it is a bad idea, and I could name them if anyone is interested. Suffice to say galehar and jpeg are correct in saying it will cause more problems than it would solve. I'm all ears. :) The best way I can illustrate a few of the problems by coming up with a few simpl...

jackalKnight wrote:It may sound counter-intuitive for Vehumet, but consider trying to get Spider Form on the character. My current DeVm got saved from a very nasty situation based solely on Spider's speed and evade.

How do I get Spider Form?

evilmike wrote: There are a bunch of reasons why it is a bad idea, and I could name them if anyone is interested. Suffice to say galehar and jpeg are correct in saying it will cause more problems than it would solve.

I'm all ears.

What if you're trying to escape from multiple enemies, coming from multiple angles, each having possibly a different speed and maybe even differently ranged attacks? While it's true that probably even with the current system I would try to judge the situation at a glance rather than painstakingly p...

Since this probably would have already been implemented except for a vocal minority of people objecting on dubious aesthetic grounds, i think people should be allowed to voice their support for an idea. The fact that approaching enemy vertically is different than approaching it diagonally is what m...

ryak wrote:+1 vote for square los.

Not mean to be rude, but who cares about +1's or -1's? It adds nothing to the discussion, really.

*shrugs* I guess. It seems like if they made the LOS square then making the diagonal movement cost more will, in effect, not actually affect anything. So, I'm all for more LOS. 'Tever. O_o I think you still have no clue about the problem (or I misunderstand you). Currently LOS is calculated "l...

... No, still don't get it. I mean, yeah, diagonally, if the enemy is three diagonal spaces away from you, it takes three turns. But that's the equivalent of it being three horizontal turns away from you. But your LOS is 3 squares diagonally and 6 horizontally. When approaching horizontally you see...

The only people "suffering" because of that would be the one that are constantly using tricks with current scheme. That is not true. Knowing that N steps always take the same amount of time, no matter the direction, is worth a lot. Currently, you can look at the grid and count the number ...

What's the advantage? If you would like to explore the dungeon fastest possible way try to move diagonally when possible (instead of left, left, left, (...) do left-up, left-down, left-up, etc.). Each diagonal move shows 5 new squares while the normal one shows 3. The autoexplorer does not use this...

Personally I don't see a problem with diagonal movement cost being sqrt(2) of normal one. With more precise movement point/action point counting this would eliminate some nonsenses like the fact that dungeon exploration is faster when you always move diagonally. The only people "suffering"...

I haven't found any post about it, but I think that the circular LoS/spell range is weird with moving diagonally cost same as moving horizontally/vertically. Is anything discussed to address this?

I'm still playing the same Wizard (haven't had that much time recently) and I'm doing extremely well. The one thing that I could do better is to not block Fighting skill at some point. I have cleared the Lair and I'm walking quite easily through Orcish Mines now. Current chardump: http://crawl.devel...

I must say I've started new game with Wizard with a fire book and I'm still playing (Lair 5). I used Meph Clould like I did before but the firepower seems to be much better. And with Fire Bolt + Fireball for 5MP now I'm quite easily dealing with anything that crosses my path. The Blink right from th...

colma wrote:try a different background than VM.

I was advised to switch to VM from Cj on IRC one and I must say -- poison + Meptic Cloud are great. What else should I try?

lucy_ferre wrote:buff yourself with enchantments, and learn escape spells.

The only problem is you have to find books that provide that. And escaping spells are no help when you're running out of mana and enemies are everywhere.

Well, I'm able to deal with early ghosts quite well. Usually being careful I'm able made it to the temple and some levels ahead. Sigmunt is not a problem with Mepthic Cloud.

I'm getting frustrated with how easy it is to loose a DE character (but I really want to play it). Most of the time I'm getting killed because I'm overcrowded and running out of MP fast. Sometimes I'm just killed by one powerful enemy -- fast and furious that I'm unable to escape. I was able to get ...

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Re: Anything changing with circular LoS vs. diagonal movemen

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Re: DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

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Anything changing with circular LoS vs. diagonal movement?

Re: DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

Re: DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

Re: DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

Re: DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

Re: DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

DE mages (DEVM) -- so fragile.

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