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It's now part of the PR.

Distract only affects enemies adjacent to the launch point and landing, but even a failed distract will still set the monster back by an amount of time equal to your (normal) move speed, as explained before.

Let's focus on wall jump for a second. I propose these wall jump changes: ⋅ Wall jump is free and usable everywhere. ⋅ For a 10 aut move delay character, wall jump takes 20 auts to execute (same as moving there normally). ⋅ Wall jump distracts all enemies adjacent to th...

bel, what you are proposing is already achieved by Serpent's Lash. Serpent's Lash is the active trigger that turns a set of abilities that are good for mobility and positioning effects into offensive tools. Gating all martial attacks behind an activation cost would make them much less intuitive and ...

You make some good points.

I think that dynamic may be different enough by adding a cost, though. It can be more interesting as an ability by being more limited.

I have to admit I'm getting to the end of my ideas and my drive to keep trying to make it work better though.

Lasty and I have been talking a lot over ##crawl-dev, and have come to a possibly satisfying solution. We don't know it will be perfect, and Lasty has reservations still, so I'm going to throw together a prototype and test it with his help in the future. Let's see where this takes us! EDIT: And here...

Sure, on that sentence you quoted I was referring to single targets. When you get multiple enemies involved, there are many particular scenarios where a combination of moves may be better than repeating one, but they're generally the exception.

Just to expand on this misunderstanding problem about whether this is a "combo god", let me say that it's completely fine by me if a player starts tabbing after successfully applying a martial attack. In fact, there are several valid reasons why you'd want to do this in the revision I'm pr...

I am happy because it looks like we're reaching a point close to understanding. If we drill down a bit more we might find (as I've suspected for a while) that we want the same thing but we are shit at communicating. But here's where the problem comes in: you seem to be stating that your strong opini...

You say you're not interested in teaching anything and you're not interested in winning an argument. You don't mention whether you're willing to learn anything, which is what I actually suggested. If you're neither interested in teaching nor learning then you may be a bad fit for contributing to DC...

I want to preserve and amplify that aspect by removing the bribes that incentivize players to exclusively use these more complex forms of attack over the normal forms of attack. I don't want players to feel that they must play a slow minigame during each fight in order to get access to more powerfu...

If you want to pursue this model and don't feel you can convince the dev team to try it in trunk, I would suggest that you reach out to one of the active forks as a way to try it out. I mean this as a serious and not dismissive idea -- one of the exciting things about having so many active trunks i...

I mean, speaking as the dude who beat this game in 37 minutes by picking FoFi, going oka, finding a vampiric axe and slamming my face into the keyboard, I don't really see how the old version of WJC would make it less "button mash"-y when pre-nerf WJC was a god you mashed left and right t...

I really think the point where you reach Lair in the game could do with some mutually exclusive choices. Go down Orc, Lair, or any number of future branches that fit that spot, but only one, which then spawns all side branches. This would shorten the game without lessening the experience, and could ...

I'm not claiming that developers are making the game for themselves, neither I have misunderstood the development process and thought that I'd still have control. I just want to make sure what the developer intentions are, and offer my experience with different god mechanics and suggest that they mi...

As an addendum to my previous post, tweaking whirlwind damage in absence of slow accomplishes nothing. If you have a whirlwind that causes no status effects and make it do 99% weapon damage, you've caused a very subtle spoilery problem: While most builds will still prefer to whirlwind due to the dam...

Let's just look at whirlwind for a second and leave wall jump aside. You are focusing on the wrong problem. Nobody has complained that whirlwind is tedious because of the need to change action when slow lands. This feedback and constant adaptation is what people find fun about the god (with a caveat...

Jesus, how conceited can you get? Everything you do is carefully thought out and players love it and everything the devteam does is a hack job done on a whim that players hate. Sure, that's exactly what I meant, thanks for summarising it to me. FWIW, working with the devs has been pleasant and I ho...

Stupid idea: Inventory space is infinite (everything is goldified and stacks indefinitely). There are 10-20 "toolbelt" slots where you can put consumables, rings evocables and/or swappable weapons. Moving things into the toolbelt slot takes 50 auts. Any item interaction with the normal inv...

I wonder if the game would benefit from goldifying literally everything, except a set of items that we deliberately want to be mutually exclusive.

I agree that it's off-putting that I find it necessary to remind you now, since I have previously been under the impression that you were very much on board with the situation, and over the last few days, I have the opposite impression. Perhaps I've misunderstood your argument here? From your last ...

At least 4 gods have been largely developed and then scrapped or taken back for additional work. The development of the game isn't about preserving any one creator's vision because its a collaborative design project. It's a bit off putting that you find it necessary to remind me of this now. The go...

You see, the problem I have (and the reason why my change of attitude since my last post, where I wasn't necessarily upset at the changes) is the absolute lack of a metric of success. It has become very clear to me that ##crawl-dev are closed to player feedback. Any dissenting opinions from the play...

If my opinion matters at this point, please just remove WJC before this. If you want to disassemble Usk and use ideas from WJC, whatever. Adding some/most of them to the most fun part of WJC would result in more fun all around. I wonder what qualifies at fun around these parts, but I'm starting to t...

It's an interesting balance. I don't like monolithic vaults too much because of duvessa's point, but I like when the entire level is linked together mechanically. Maybe there could be some middle ground with a set of themed vaults that have to appear in sets, but are still subject to some randomisat...

I don't get it, if this is how you think the god should have evolved, why didn't you submit a PR? It seems really strange to be saying that you have no control over the idea after the initial PR got merged beyond just talking to devs. The one IJC PR that I spot that you submitted after the initial ...

I suppose that, given the title of this post, you may have been expecting some Tavern drama. Fear not, I'm not upset or annoyed at the dev team at all, on the contrary, working on the god has been a very fun experience that has taught me a lot. My reasons to withdraw from working on (and discussing)...

Maybe that's what cursed items could be: An item that you can't unequip until you've exhausted your obsession towards it (by training it for a while). Curses would have to be less frequent obviously.

Would have some interesting interactions with Ashenzari, unifying the skilling and curses theme.

I think you misunderstood my sentence (and frankly I could have been more clear with it) Granted, this wouldn't be an optimal choice in most cases, but it isn't meant to be. What I meant by it not being optimal in most cases is not that the reward is bad, it's that the randomly assigned chest skill ...

I'm still sitting here wondering what quests and crafting have to do with the idea I'm proposing. Could we stay on topic please? Manuals and faded altars aren't huge traps because they tell you what they do . Your idea specifically hides the reward from the player until it's too late. Yes, troves ar...

bel wrote:Well, people have already said that this is very similar to a trove. Why do we need another trove-like mechanism?

Because troves happen too late to have a real impact on your build. This is an offer to get some extra early power in exchange for branching out in an unexpected direction.

Well, when you roll a demonspawn, you have more risk and lower immediate payoff. So do you when you start saving up healing potions for a trove, when you quaff Mut, when you choose to go into a portal vault, etcetera. I would've thought taking calculated risks for an unknown payoff is a cornerstone ...

I honestly don't know how you guys are extrapolating this feature to the point you think it would be mean to players, or somehow on the level of quests and crafting. By duvessa's reasoning, a manual is also a newbie trap. How is it so different to have an item that gives +4 apt to long blades for a ...

One thing that could alleviate the issues that CanOfWorms and duvessa point out, would be for the box to provide a nerfed manual effect as you train up the skill. Having +2 apt to the skill the box requires would make training it a more interesting prospect, even if the reward ends up being bad. Gra...

The Archaeologist branch is sort of abandoned because it does clash too much with the core design of backgrounds. However, after thinking of it for a while I think there's a way the same general idea could be implemented in a way that aligns a bit better with the game philosophy. The objective of th...

Another thought: How about we invert the dynamics completely. Skeletons get mesmerised towards living targets on sight. However, they have an active ability that let them break mesmerisation at a cost (preferably instant HP loss as it would discourage using it once the fight goes wrong, or perhaps d...

nago wrote:Please don't, that would be extremely annoying, as it would force you to kite every enemy, including popcorn to safe area

Yeah, good point. It was just a thought experiment

Thought: Reap could be passive instead of active, and trigger as soon as you harm a living being.

I was actually under the impression that this was the most illegitimate use of it...you mentioned in the OP, correctly, that moving away from monsters to set up lunges is tedious and bad. It seems to me like wall jumping to set up lunges has the same problem. What I mean is that running away from a...

In addition to the noise, you could forbid wall jumps that wouldn't attack any visible targets. Just like shadowstep only works if there's a monster there. That would get rid of most of the accidental ones, and have some other good effects (nerfing its use for escaping, not letting it replace 's' w...

Because this species doesn't have a home yet, with SteelNeuron's permission skeletons have been adopted into Yiuf's Home! (adopted for how long? dunno! the newgame menu only has room for so many species on it :mrgreen:) You can now play online at https://crawl.project357.org/ by selecting "Yiu...

Re: Noise on wall jump and whirlwind. I think this one could work very well. I'm not convinced about whirlwind yet (I still think a lower base damage could be the ideal tweak) but walljump could definitely benefit from being noisy since it goes against its main degenerate use, which is escaping for ...

duvessa wrote:How about balancing whirlwind and wall jump by making them generate a large amount of noise? Higher than the cap of 12 for melee attack noise. That way it wouldn't be optimal to use them in trivial fights.

I actually like that a lot. I'll respond at length tomorrow, but it's very promising.

What I'm asking is, why do you want engaging with whirlwind to be a no-brainer ? How could that possibly make the game better? Now you're just resorting to cheap strawmen. I've only been comparing whirlwind to tab, particularly with the intention of making both viable. Not only I don't think engagi...

If you, as a player, decide to engage with whirlwind on every single fight, you should be rewarded Okay, I'll bite. How the fuck is this better for the game than engaging with tab on every single fight? the same way that engaging a quokka with mephitic cloud is better than tabbing until it's dead. ...

Sorry I haven't been too attentive these past two days. Zelda happened, and it has absorbed me quite a bit. To respond some concerns about my proposed change to whirlwind (which after some tests I think would be fine at 80% damage). It's very important to reiterate that I don't intend for tab to be ...

I think I've been quite explicit in saying that I believe whirlwind and wall jump make those decision trees shallower, not deeper. And I've been quite explicit I disagree, we are just going in circles now. You keep bringing up player feedback but Crawl isn't developed based on player popularity, an...

How fitting that all the outlandish species can be found only in Australia.

Whirlwind and wall jump are fun because they decrease the cost of running around while you fight, instead of holing up in a corridor. They could possibly be made into actual decisions while increasing this effect if they require you to move around in ways that potentially expose you. Spitballing (w...

I have no intent to be inflammatory, I genuinely believe that whirlwind and wall jump are fundamentally bad ideas and fundamentally broken mechanics, in largely the same way that reaching is: they make the game take more real-world time to play without adding more meaningful, difficult decisions. T...

Let me just clarify one point about what I mean by "active martial attacks", because I don't think people are talking about the same thing as me. I am talking about a status effect like Heroism, where you press "aa" and you get to do whatever martial attacks you want for a while...

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