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People talking about that get that hunger does not actually prevent you from standing still for a huge number of turns, right? yes, but it's supposed to, hence the idea "make it work" rather than "just remove it and forget about it". ideally food would be scarce enough to not on...

yesno wrote:i'd like to remove monsters because i get sick of constant messages telling me that something is hitting me.

Go play candy crush. ;-)

Whether there should be a clock pushing you forward is being conflated with whether or not there should be a food system. You can reason about those independently if you want to stop bickering. Hunger would be a fine, mostly ignorable system if only there were no butchering. No it would not. It wou...

What really annoys me is that developers seem to be of the mindset that it is a good idea to keep some theoretical player from tortureing themselves by implementing mechanics that torture everybody. Since waiting around for monsters to come to you is tedious and they don't want people to do that the...

GOOD GOD!!! I want to rip my eyes out. You do not need to punish people for staying on a level too long. This is backwards thinking. It is using a kludge instead of fixing the problem. JUST FIX THE PROBLEM! Remove the incentive for spending a lot of time on the level. There are several very easy way...

How about we make starvation a status effect which temporarily halves your attributes and slows you (but doesn't kill you), and increase slightly the number of permafood, and remove chunk eating? This way spell/ability hunger still has an effect, you can't scum everywhere by just waiting for monste...

kuniqs wrote:Wasn't there a joke earlier in this thread about getting experience from collecting gold?

The joke was that I was presenting it like it was some kind of new idea when it is actually from basic D&D

Here is a proposal: 1. Monsters do not give experience ever. 2. Experience is gained by collecting gold 3. Each level has random number between 1-5 timed portals that lead to small treasure vaults containing some treasure and perhaps a guard. Treasure is just like treasure you find lying around the ...

I'm not sure how these particular "cooldowns" work, but Crawl already basically has a mechanic that forces you to wait to cast more spells: MP. The more pertinent part of spell hunger, as I understand it, is that it's intended to keep the player from overusing high-level spells across mul...

I have a proposal. What if every level had 1-3 timed vaults. The vaults would contain a single room with some small amount of treasure and perhpas a guard. You never know how many vaults are on the level. This would be a very effective way of getting players to not sit still without using a stick. ...

I have a proposal. What if every level had 1-3 timed vaults. The vaults would contain a single room with some small amount of treasure and perhpas a guard. You never know how many vaults are on the level. This would be a very effective way of getting players to not sit still without using a stick.

Although I think durable summons will be sufficient, I do think it has a few warts. I think it would ultimately just be better to make it so no monsters give experience. Turn monstsers into pure obstacles, and never goals. Just tie experience to something else like treasure. This would even open up ...

Of course it is just a psychological difference. That is the point. And yes even if I don't scum that stick is still there. As you said it is the psychology of the matter. The point of the stick is not to hit the ass, but to put duress on the ass to pull the cart forward. There is just no need for s...

Piety decay is not a good reason to move forward. Sticks are never good reasons to move forward. Your games should not contain sticks. Your games should contain carrots and obstacles. Treasure is a carrot. Treasure is a good reason to move forward. Goals like getting the orb are carrots. The orb is ...

Ok, than what do you crate think about the potential of the following proposal: 1. Remove chunks and all food cost for any spells, abilities, etc. Only keep perma food and be hungry by ellapsed game time. Food is only there to limit the available time. 2. Add contamination cost to abilities/spells ...

I know the design tenet. It is wrong. You can not design for the lowest common denominator or you will have a product that sucks. The object of the game is to have fun. If you can not figure that out and you choose to bore yourself to death that is your problem. At some point you just have to let st...

Sorry but I have to disagree. If you wan't to sit around for 50,000 turns on L:1 that is your problem. Again we should not fuck over everybody because somewhere between a microscopic minority and nobody at all might do stupid things. Hell I don't care if most people do it. That is there problem. Ple...

That would be amazing, Bodrick. FWIW, while you should do whatever you want to do, I think it might be more productive to have a branch that simply removes all hunger costs for now. Maybe that's as easy (relatively speaking) as setting the base hunger of all non-Vp/Gh species to 0 and then removing...

Looking over my few pure caster morgues, I found that I ate somewhere around 700-800 chunks in a typical Sif game (without a staff of energy), vs. around 110 for a melee character. Is this really necessary? This is part of why people don't like playing conjuration-only characters. If this does not ...

Really the long and the short of it is that hunger does not act as a clock. All it does is act as a limiter for high level spells at the moment. If you need a mechanic to limit high level spell why the hell do you plague every charcter with it not just those casting high level spells. If you want to...

IMO a good triple sword is a much better weapon than Firestorm outside of Ziggurats, but I imagine most people will disagree. I am willing to buy this argument if your are willing to admit that a rolled up newspaper is more POWERFUL then an elephant gun. After all if I am hunting flies in my apartm...

Everybody is overlooking the obvious. The real problem is that high level spells were designed to be ballanced by strategic costs not tactical costs. They are supposedly balanced by the huge investment of experience, This is a mistake and requires a fix to keep them in check. Just balance the high ...

Everybody is overlooking the obvious. The real problem is that high level spells were designed to be ballanced by strategic costs not tactical costs. They are supposedly balanced by the huge investment of experience, This is a mistake and requires a fix to keep them in check. Just balance the high l...

So let me get this straight. Food as a mechanic does nothing usefull and only serves to annoy players, and the response is to make it less annoying so it just does absolutely nothing? If it does nothing, not even annoy us, why is it in the game? Just remove it!

I don't think it's actually that hard to balance a timer in a way that prevents mummy-level scumming for XP but still lets you press 'o' and '5' freely. But then why bother having a timer at all? Why not just remove the mechanics that enable mummy-level scumming in the first place? It's more like t...

Does anybody really care about people who decide to scum level spawns/Abyss/Pan/whatever? I thought the biggest problem is that people play through midgame the regular way and think "hey, this seems a bit too long". I agree, but some are suggesting to make the game more interesting by cut...

Cutting levels really won't solve the problem. The game currently has no way of limiting experience. There is no true anti-scumming mechanism in the game. Don't get me wrong I don't think the game should have an anti-scumming mechanism. That is just a kludge for bad game design. I have said it befor...

In a nutshell the game needs more high risk high reward situations and less grinding. More depths style vault levels and less random levels full of experience pinatas that I just tab through. The awful truth is that computer generated scenerios just are not interesting, or at least not with our gene...

As long as you can eat chunks the food clock is an outdated kludge that serves no real purpose spell hunger or not. Don't get rid of spell hunger just get rid of hunger! Make all wandering monster durable summons and actually solve the problem of scumming once and for all. Why does anybody defend th...

The main thing I want to solve is that ranged combat is almost impossible to balance in the current scheme: being able to attack at any range is extremely powerful and eliminates most tactical considerations, so if ranged combat does enough damage, it's almost always the best choice, but that best ...

I really have to ask. Exactly what problem are we trying to fix here? What is wrong with the current system? I play characters that start throwing stones as soon as they find them, and end the game doing nothing but throwing javs at enemies. I kill the screen, hit "o" a few times and move ...

I don't think anyone even plays characters that mainly use throwing to deal damage, so I think you could treat javelins, tomahawks, etc. as "special" ammo without really affecting anyone too much. You could rename "bow" to "bow and arrows" or "crossbow and bolts&q...

I don't think anyone even plays characters that mainly use throwing to deal damage, so I think you could treat javelins, tomahawks, etc. as "special" ammo without really affecting anyone too much. You could rename "bow" to "bow and arrows" or "crossbow and bolts&q...

So still no reason other then tradition for keeping charms? At least get rid of the school if not all the spells. There is no reason a single skill should give you huge boosts to dodging+armour+every weapon skill+other bonuses including the most powerful spell in the game.

So charms are cumbersom, overpowered, and ubiquitous. Other then tradition what is the reason to keep them?

It is not that charms are bad in crawl. It is that charms a bad in any system. They fall into the everything is better with me catagory. If you really want to be good at anything you need charms. Who is better at dodging arrows a characther who sinks everthing into dodging or a character who diverts...

It's now Bite mutation*2 + Level/3 base damage:

According to the wiki and the actual dammage I see the equation is:

fangs*2 + level*2/3

so level 27 is base dammage 24.

On VS it is all about the speed. Your bite is your real weapon and more attacks per AUT on your weapon is what really matters. Quickblades are the real weapon of choice for VS.

Why are the anti-scumming OOD spawns real monsters, and not durable summons? As mps said, there is indeed a tension inherent when the thing that's meant to punish scumming also rewards it. But this at least can be trivially solved. I may be wrong, but it's actually quite possible that the reason th...

All these responses and nobody has mentioned the best weapon in the game: a vinestalker's bite attack!

So player decides to use some item and later even has a chance to improve it, I think it is closer to scroll of enchant item. But look at the meaningful decisions that this brings to the game. Is the upside of the object better then the curse right now? Is it better when I have some better equipmen...

Well ring of teleportation, and ring of loudness would both be history. And sticky curses would be either rare or special case (ash/mummy). Sticky curses are bad as I stated in the original post. The whole point behind this endevor is to mostly remove them so the curse game actually comes into play.

Adding significant negatives to cursed items would make players much more apprehensive about wielding magic weapons. Again read the original post. Cursed does not mean sticky! Most cursed items are not sticky! There is less reason not to wield magic weapons because even if they are cursed they will...

How about making mummy curses temporary - instead of cursing items, you get status effects from above which go away after you gain enough experience. I realy don't like XP based clocks. Crawl has a progressive experience system which makes it a horrible clock. If you want temporary curses explorati...

I don't think anyone would ever play Ash after this. Also i don't see how this would make curses interesting in any way. It would only make you not equip 95% of the stuff you find, cause they might be cursed, and you don't have enough ?identify and/or ?rc. 1. Not trying on things because you don't ...

Lets face a simple fact. The current curse game is not good. If you play inteligently it is non-existant. If you play poorly then it ranges from non-existant to frustrating. This proposal is an attempt to make the curse game more interesting. So here goes: 1. Remove sticky curse (at least as the def...

You might also brand the qblade if you have a scroll around. fsimming a vine stalker sounds tricky because it can't really count the value of antimagic bites. Yeah, you want the death yak to die but you really really want the OOF to not hurt you. Bah my VS usually just chuck a few silver javs at th...

even on a VS the rapier wins I strongly disagree. i said that after fsimming it to test How much slaying bonus? How much short blades skill? Going from 8-14 skill is not trivial for a VS. I just did a fsim with one of my VS. With slaying the qblade was almots double vs a fire giant. Without slaying...

DrKe wrote:even on a VS the rapier wins

I strongly disagree.

I remember standing there toe to toe with Mennas and him just constantly blocking everything you threw at him as he chipped away at you HP. If you didn't have friends to help get past his shield you couldn't beat him, or at least not consistantly. I guess with 6 attacks per turn you don't need frien...

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