0007873: Blood spatter makes sealed doors and not-sealed doors look the same

(0024780)
wheals (administrator)
2013-12-19 15:36

This problem is the case for stairs, as well.

(0024784)
KiloByte (manager)
2013-12-19 22:20

What's even the point in these splatters? It was semi-useful for spotting mechanical traps, but all it still does is telling you where a fight took place, which you already know,

(0024786)
evilmike (developer)
2013-12-20 19:17

It's just a cosmetic effect that looks cool. It has more value in tiles than console, but it's still fun to have.

(0024793)
minmay (reporter)
2013-12-21 05:40

It's also obnoxious when blood splatters on an empty arch and makes you think it's a portal. And when it keeps you from telling walls apart (this is mostly a problem in abyss).

(0024794)
KiloByte (manager)
2013-12-21 06:53

Perhaps it would be best to not show blood on anything but floor in console, then?

(0024795)
dpeg (administrator)
2013-12-21 13:45
edited on: 2013-12-21 13:46

kilobyte: That is too conversative, in my opinion. At the very least include walls for blood splatter -- it is very a nice effect. Personally, I wouldn't mind blood on doors either, as the player has seen the unblooded door before.

Let's just come up with a negative list of things that shouldn't be splattered: altars, portals/shops. Traps and doors if you feel strongly about it.

(0024796)
evilmike (developer)
2013-12-21 15:38

I think the only things safe to recolour are rock walls, and floor. I stress rock walls - I don't think it's a good idea to recolour stone, metal, crystal, glass, etc.

That applies to console only. It's not a worry in tiles, because the blood splatter is just an overlay there.

(0024797)
nicolae (reporter)
2013-12-21 16:20
edited on: 2013-12-21 16:20

IIRC, blood splatters aren't 100% cosmetic, since Ignite Blood turns them into flame clouds.

(0024798)
KiloByte (manager)
2013-12-21 17:32

dpeg: in console, there is no place for superfluous decor if it makes features look like something else. Like evilmike said, the only safe things to bloodify are floor and rock walls. Doors... maybe. And for rock walls, I'd skip them too, as it'd be puzzling why blood splatters on rock but not on metal. On the other hand, we got really a lot of floor around...

nicolae: Ignite Blood does nothing to old blood, and even if it did, it would burst in flames as soon it comes into LOS, thus it'd never show up. And Ignite Blood doesn't ignite blood placed on walls.

(0024819)
Kate (developer)
2013-12-23 10:57
edited on: 2013-12-23 11:00

Traps, portals, doors, stairs all shouldn't be bloodied at least. Trees and metal grates are maybe okay and perhaps rock walls if they're the only wall type that can be bloodied, I'd certainly be fine with only allowing it on floor though.

When Ignite Blood triggers the blood does still show up (you end up with extra blood everywhere, even), so there would have to be some special handling for features. Just having it only ever trigger on blood on plain floor tiles seems okay to me (features interfere with the spoooooky demon aura or something).

The other actual gameplay effect of blood placement is of alerting monsters with M_BLOOD_SCENT (vampires, 'h's, sharks, leeches) and also alerting player vampires if somehow some blood gets placed outside your LOS which I bet has happened approximately never.

(0024827)
dpeg (administrator)
2013-12-23 16:34

I agree about traps, portals and stairs: here function is critical and form should take a second seat. On the other hand, especially because console mode is so restricted, every bit of flavour counts.

Given that, I support bloodied rock walls, but I fail to see what's wrong with bloodied walls of other material: sceneries where different wall types come up are quite rare, so that generally you know what kind of wall type is around. Even if not, wall type matters infrequently. In other words, I value the bloody flavour highly enough to have LRD-users and their ilk resort to xv at times.

(0024828)
crate (reporter)
2013-12-23 17:35

I don't know if abyss still has blood spatters (it's been a while since I've been there), but the original reason I standardized wall colouring in my rcfile is so I could tell what type of wall is what in abyss without x (since, at least in the past, abyss did not use only brown rock, and other colours of rock confused me. I'm not sure if they could actually overlap with metal or stone but it wasn't brown).

Blood in the abyss undoes this if it's allowed to happen on walls that aren't just rock, so I'm against it being allowed.

Alternatively allow me to turn off blood spatters entirely in my rcfile because I would gladly do that if I were allowed, and then you can put them wherever you want. Then you can allow the player to choose whether flavour or clarity is more important.

(0025605)
Kate (developer)
2014-03-14 21:42

Doors and stone arches/expired portals are now prevented from being recoloured by blood. Leaving this open, since it might well be good to extend it to statues and some/all(?) wall types too.

(0034201)
ebering (developer)
2021-03-30 20:09

In the interleaving 7 years the fraction of console players has dropped precipitously, and those for whom the door and stone arch recolor prevention was not enough haven't spoken up. I think it's safe to close this now as no further change required.

Notes
(0024780) wheals (administrator) 2013-12-19 15:36	This problem is the case for stairs, as well.

(0024784) KiloByte (manager) 2013-12-19 22:20	What's even the point in these splatters? It was semi-useful for spotting mechanical traps, but all it still does is telling you where a fight took place, which you already know,

(0024786) evilmike (developer) 2013-12-20 19:17	It's just a cosmetic effect that looks cool. It has more value in tiles than console, but it's still fun to have.

(0024793) minmay (reporter) 2013-12-21 05:40	It's also obnoxious when blood splatters on an empty arch and makes you think it's a portal. And when it keeps you from telling walls apart (this is mostly a problem in abyss).

(0024794) KiloByte (manager) 2013-12-21 06:53	Perhaps it would be best to not show blood on anything but floor in console, then?

(0024795) dpeg (administrator) 2013-12-21 13:45 edited on: 2013-12-21 13:46	kilobyte: That is too conversative, in my opinion. At the very least include walls for blood splatter -- it is very a nice effect. Personally, I wouldn't mind blood on doors either, as the player has seen the unblooded door before. Let's just come up with a negative list of things that shouldn't be splattered: altars, portals/shops. Traps and doors if you feel strongly about it.

(0024796) evilmike (developer) 2013-12-21 15:38	I think the only things safe to recolour are rock walls, and floor. I stress rock walls - I don't think it's a good idea to recolour stone, metal, crystal, glass, etc. That applies to console only. It's not a worry in tiles, because the blood splatter is just an overlay there.

(0024797) nicolae (reporter) 2013-12-21 16:20 edited on: 2013-12-21 16:20	IIRC, blood splatters aren't 100% cosmetic, since Ignite Blood turns them into flame clouds.

(0024798) KiloByte (manager) 2013-12-21 17:32	dpeg: in console, there is no place for superfluous decor if it makes features look like something else. Like evilmike said, the only safe things to bloodify are floor and rock walls. Doors... maybe. And for rock walls, I'd skip them too, as it'd be puzzling why blood splatters on rock but not on metal. On the other hand, we got really a lot of floor around... nicolae: Ignite Blood does nothing to old blood, and even if it did, it would burst in flames as soon it comes into LOS, thus it'd never show up. And Ignite Blood doesn't ignite blood placed on walls.

(0024819) Kate (developer) 2013-12-23 10:57 edited on: 2013-12-23 11:00	Traps, portals, doors, stairs all shouldn't be bloodied at least. Trees and metal grates are maybe okay and perhaps rock walls if they're the only wall type that can be bloodied, I'd certainly be fine with only allowing it on floor though. When Ignite Blood triggers the blood does still show up (you end up with extra blood everywhere, even), so there would have to be some special handling for features. Just having it only ever trigger on blood on plain floor tiles seems okay to me (features interfere with the spoooooky demon aura or something). The other actual gameplay effect of blood placement is of alerting monsters with M_BLOOD_SCENT (vampires, 'h's, sharks, leeches) and also alerting player vampires if somehow some blood gets placed outside your LOS which I bet has happened approximately never.

(0024827) dpeg (administrator) 2013-12-23 16:34	I agree about traps, portals and stairs: here function is critical and form should take a second seat. On the other hand, especially because console mode is so restricted, every bit of flavour counts. Given that, I support bloodied rock walls, but I fail to see what's wrong with bloodied walls of other material: sceneries where different wall types come up are quite rare, so that generally you know what kind of wall type is around. Even if not, wall type matters infrequently. In other words, I value the bloody flavour highly enough to have LRD-users and their ilk resort to xv at times.

(0024828) crate (reporter) 2013-12-23 17:35	I don't know if abyss still has blood spatters (it's been a while since I've been there), but the original reason I standardized wall colouring in my rcfile is so I could tell what type of wall is what in abyss without x (since, at least in the past, abyss did not use only brown rock, and other colours of rock confused me. I'm not sure if they could actually overlap with metal or stone but it wasn't brown). Blood in the abyss undoes this if it's allowed to happen on walls that aren't just rock, so I'm against it being allowed. Alternatively allow me to turn off blood spatters entirely in my rcfile because I would gladly do that if I were allowed, and then you can put them wherever you want. Then you can allow the player to choose whether flavour or clarity is more important.

(0025605) Kate (developer) 2014-03-14 21:42	Doors and stone arches/expired portals are now prevented from being recoloured by blood. Leaving this open, since it might well be good to extend it to statues and some/all(?) wall types too.

(0034201) ebering (developer) 2021-03-30 20:09	In the interleaving 7 years the fraction of console players has dropped precipitously, and those for whom the door and stone arch recolor prevention was not enough haven't spoken up. I think it's safe to close this now as no further change required.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2013-12-17 08:32	crate	New Issue
2013-12-19 15:36	wheals	Note Added: 0024780
2013-12-19 22:20	KiloByte	Note Added: 0024784
2013-12-20 19:17	evilmike	Note Added: 0024786
2013-12-21 05:40	minmay	Note Added: 0024793
2013-12-21 06:53	KiloByte	Note Added: 0024794
2013-12-21 13:45	dpeg	Note Added: 0024795
2013-12-21 13:46	dpeg	Note Edited: 0024795
2013-12-21 15:38	evilmike	Note Added: 0024796
2013-12-21 16:20	nicolae	Note Added: 0024797
2013-12-21 16:20	nicolae	Note Edited: 0024797
2013-12-21 17:32	KiloByte	Note Added: 0024798
2013-12-23 10:57	Kate	Note Added: 0024819
2013-12-23 10:58	Kate	Note Edited: 0024819
2013-12-23 11:00	Kate	Note Edited: 0024819
2013-12-23 11:00	Kate	Note Edited: 0024819
2013-12-23 16:34	dpeg	Note Added: 0024827
2013-12-23 17:35	crate	Note Added: 0024828
2014-03-14 21:42	Kate	Note Added: 0025605
2021-03-30 20:09	ebering	Note Added: 0034201
2021-03-30 20:09	ebering	Status	new => resolved
2021-03-30 20:09	ebering	Resolution	open => no change required
2021-03-30 20:09	ebering	Assigned To	=> ebering

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