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ID Category Severity Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
0007774 [DCSS] Upload: Maps and Vaults minor have not tried 2013-11-22 08:27 2014-01-01 03:32
Reporter badplayer View Status public  
Assigned To neil
Priority normal Resolution done  
Status resolved   Product Branch 0.14 ancient branch
Summary 0007774: Added a new sewer portal vault
Description A new vault with Snakes, Frogs, and a princely encounter!
Additional Information
Tags No tags attached.
Attached Files ? file icon 0001-Add-Prince-Ribbit-Vault.patch [^] (2,259 bytes) 2013-11-22 08:51 [Show Content]
? file icon 0001-Add-Ribbit-sewer-vault.patch [^] (2,436 bytes) 2013-11-23 07:12 [Show Content]

- Relationships

-  Notes
badplayer (reporter)
2013-11-22 08:52

First file had a bunch of test stuff I was remiss in removing ... please use the 2nd
Claws (developer)
2013-11-22 16:19

Oh dear, there's a lot of little pitfalls here. The vault itself isn't bad, which is a crucial point for new vaultmakers and a rather encouraging part of this, but it needs a lot of clean-up.

 * You don't need to make the whole level out of perma-rock, both because that's discouraged outside of hyper-limited special circumstances and because as early as sewers are there's little fear of breaking vault order here when using rock or stone, which you should use instead.
 * Loot is potentially crazy generous for an earlygame portal vault; it'd be a lot closer to other sewer vault balance to cut the loot here in half.
 * Vault header could use quite the bit of clean-up. The other vaults contained in sewer.des, while not totally to my liking, should provide good examples of orders for header contents, like grouping MONS/ITEM/KFEAT defintions together and putting TAGS/ORIENT/WEIGHT lines at the top. Plus, KFEAT lines defining the same floor feature to multiple areas should be absorbed into one line e.g. KFEAT: 23 = W, and similiarly subst lines defining the same variety of transformation should be grouped together too e.g. SUBST: ' = wW, " = .wW, ` = .W
 * Speaking of which, there is potentially a small chance of an island seperated from the rest of the vault with these water transformations, and dying from teleporting onto that island feels like a cheat of a death. Make land SUBST'd in by " a glyph you give the KPROP: [glyph] = no_rtele_into, and this'll be less of a concern.

A blink frog with lots of nearby water is probably the most dangerous sewers can get, and new players might find it quite a ways unfair to not know of their relatively massive damage for the depth... . I have no comments as to whether this needs a nerf, though.
chris (updater)
2013-11-22 19:24

Not removing the first file yet: It contains another vault not present in the second one (soler_sewer_entry_a).
badplayer (reporter)
2013-11-22 20:00

Yah that other vault was a total test by me to get a hang of the syntax. I did not mean to include it in the original patch file.
dpeg (administrator)
2013-11-23 01:22

(Disclaimer: I have only looked at the map.)

Using a giant frog and a blink frog is a step up in difficulty from the other Sewer maps. I like the idea and the map, but I think that some kind of measure is necessary.

Here is what I can think of:

1. either make sure that this Sewer map only occurs at the deepest entry levels, i.e. D:6, or

2. handicap Ribbit in some way, for example with perm_ench:blind (not sure this will do enough) and/or reducing HP, indicated by some adjective (a la "sickly siren).
badplayer (reporter)
2013-11-23 07:14

Claws, dpeg, thank you both for your comments, which I have (mostly) applied to the latest file listed above.

I opted to have this vault only available on D:6 instead of generating a jaundiced Ribbit.

I play tested it several times (roughly 15), and found the loot to be rather normal. Given the rarity and difficult of this vault, the loot seems to be in line. If the consensus is that it's still too much, feel free to remove a couple of the '$'s.
badplayer (reporter)
2013-11-23 07:47

looks like line 1225 is causing a problem, I guess you can't group KFEAT lines like that? Should I fix it an upload a new patch?
badplayer (reporter)
2013-11-26 08:07

So I realize that the DEPTH: D:6 is a no-op.

Ribbit can spawn as early as D:4. The earliest a sewer can spawn is D:3. This seems fair.

For anyone who has seen the vault before, the encounter is easily avoidable. For a first-timer, it's still likely they can escape before being mauled by Ribbit (he's easy to escape from). If they don't, they've lost little investment, and learned a good lesson.
neil (administrator)
2014-01-01 03:32

In trunk (0.14-a0-1715-g9fadcd1), thanks! I fixed the bad KFEAT, finished replacing the permarock (the giant frogs could still be substituted with it), and removed the PLACE: D:6.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2013-11-22 08:27 badplayer New Issue
2013-11-22 08:27 badplayer File Added: 0001-Added-a-Prince-Ribbit-vault.patch
2013-11-22 08:28 badplayer Issue Monitored: badplayer
2013-11-22 08:51 badplayer File Added: 0001-Add-Prince-Ribbit-Vault.patch
2013-11-22 08:52 badplayer Note Added: 0024454
2013-11-22 16:19 Claws Note Added: 0024455
2013-11-22 19:24 chris Note Added: 0024456
2013-11-22 20:00 badplayer Note Added: 0024457
2013-11-22 20:18 chris File Deleted: 0001-Added-a-Prince-Ribbit-vault.patch
2013-11-23 01:22 dpeg Note Added: 0024459
2013-11-23 07:12 badplayer File Added: 0001-Add-Ribbit-sewer-vault.patch
2013-11-23 07:14 badplayer Note Added: 0024473
2013-11-23 07:47 badplayer Note Added: 0024474
2013-11-26 08:07 badplayer Note Added: 0024500
2013-11-28 18:04 neil Category Patches => Upload: Maps and Vaults
2014-01-01 03:32 neil Note Added: 0024895
2014-01-01 03:32 neil Status new => resolved
2014-01-01 03:32 neil Fixed in Branch => 0.14 development branch
2014-01-01 03:32 neil Resolution open => done
2014-01-01 03:32 neil Assigned To => neil

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